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Americas Third World War

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posted on Aug, 29 2005 @ 01:10 AM
It seems the only experts people want to believe are the ones who tell them what they want to hear.

posted on Aug, 29 2005 @ 01:32 AM
Ok, so this guy who did time in the CIA THIRTY years ago sings a Bad America tune, and you take his word for everything?

Of course you do. Why else would you drag it up to the board, or even look for it in the first place?

posted on Aug, 29 2005 @ 03:18 AM

You have voted Souljah for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Wow, so much "black and white" thinking on ATS lately. Even a from a MOD.

Why are Americans so insecure that they take every post about the "evils" of their country so personally?

You are not your government; your government is not you.

Americans didn't kill those 6 million, your government did.

You all wonder why people point out Amerikkkas evil doings?

Maybe it's because america likes to shoot its mouth off about being the "best country in the world" all the time?

Maybe cause it's fun to see you all get mad and reactionary?

Maybe it's meant to hopefully wake you all up before your government destroys what's left of your country?

Maybe because what America is doing is affecting ALL of us?

Americans are like the kid who has been told by his mommy his whole life that he is the best, and then as an adult they find other people don't treat them like they're the best, or even see them that way. So you get all defensive, ignore the criticism, stick ya heads in the sand and deny, deny, deny.

America has created the "us or them" attitude, you're with us or against us.

America has taken away the grey and made it black and white.

America is the country always at the top of the headlines now, not China, or Russia, or poll pot.

America is the country that thinks the World revolves around them.

America is the country manipulating world situations.

Oh momy they pickin on me!

When was the last time Russia or China or France or whoever invaded a sovereign country?

If you don't like your dirty laundry being draped all over the internet, instead of getting all defensive clean your freakin laundry.

I don't dislike Americans, I dislike your government as I dislike ALL governments, but mostly I hate people who blindly follow the pied piper and get mad at people who point out that the piper is not leading you to paradise.

YOU are your country, not your government. If you can't look at your government critically and voice your criticism then you deserve all you get, you have lost your country.
If the citizens of Germany in the 30's had done that we might not have had WWII.

If people on ATS can't discus what their government might be doing without closing their minds and accusing others of "America bashing", then I hold little hope for the rest of the sheep in your population.

This is why history always seems to repeat itself.

posted on Aug, 29 2005 @ 04:03 AM
Whatch the little hawks completely miss this post. They will still proclaim the US goes around the world liberally dispencing "freedom and democracy" [TM], despite the fact the US is the biggest purveyor of state terror there is.


was just reading the posts denying this. Questioning his legitimacy.. telling us we only hear what we want etc.

The rest of the world seems to agree that this is what goes down, the world court told reagan in '82 he was a terrorist (which he ignored -in fact he responded by STEPPING UP THE ACTIVITY IN NICARAGUA TO INCLUDE SOFT TARGETS!!- he only hears what he wants too!!).

Also the rest of the world tried to determine that self-defence in face of a opressvie or racist imperial occupier would not be seen as terrorism. Thw whole world seemed to agree except for 2 nations... US and Israel.

Oh i wonder why... lots of people resisting their racist and imperial occupations?

[edit on 29/8/2005 by Corinthas]

[edit on 29/8/2005 by Corinthas]

posted on Aug, 29 2005 @ 08:47 AM

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Ok, so this guy who did time in the CIA THIRTY years ago sings a Bad America tune, and you take his word for everything?

Of course you do. Why else would you drag it up to the board, or even look for it in the first place?

I thought articles such as the one presented by Souljah are the point of this website.....conspiracy based. I think most would agree that to glean 100% accurate, unfettered information of a governments wrong doing is nearly impossible. So how do you get the word out then ? If a seasonsed CIA big wig can't be seen as somewhat credible I don't know who can. That's not to say that this story is completely true but the individual certainly seems to have put a lot on the line (career, family, friends, etc. I'm sure).

Also I would hardly consider the possibility of 6 million people a "Bad America Tune". "If" true its staggering and extremely disturbing that this could be attributed to such an allegedly pro democratic and loving nation.

Great read Souljah


[edit on 29-8-2005 by brill]

posted on Aug, 29 2005 @ 12:08 PM

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Ok, so this guy who did time in the CIA THIRTY years ago sings a Bad America tune, and you take his word for everything?

Of course you do. Why else would you drag it up to the board, or even look for it in the first place?

With all Due Respect Sir Judge, dontcha Think that "This Guy" that spent alot of his years serving his country as a CIA agenty knows a little more about the secrets of the CIA then You and me combined. And this facts and statements are not very hard to find, they are all over the Net actually, it's very hard to Avoid them!

posted on Aug, 29 2005 @ 01:36 PM
thats funny wen he talks about North Korea as if we provoked them. lol this guy is just trying to get back at the CIA, i wont denie some operations against third world nations but it was the Cold war against the Soveits which was expanding, im surprise he didnt mention about Soviet operations in third world nations where American operations were meeting with. but i knew that involving North Korea as being provoked to invade South Korea by the CIA persuaded me that this guy was for persona vendetta then about revealing atrocities. he didnt mention about killing Soviets during the Soviet Afghan war, we can add that list of casualties to the so called 6 million dead. after all he cannot explained why we attacked a "harmless" third world country like North Korea eh?

posted on Sep, 13 2005 @ 05:18 PM
Sure the CIA has probably alone killed thousands over the years, maybe even hundreds of thousands. The CIA would not be able to kill 6 million and not one serious investigation on them by other world nations. We would have heard more about it. It's just too large of a number and insane. I believe the article you read is an exageration of someone with a wilkd imagination. Sorry.

posted on Sep, 13 2005 @ 05:25 PM
Wow, i thought the CIA is horrible at hiding information, i guess wrong, if they can cover up 6 million deaths I said their too good... hummmm... wondering why there is no outcry from the 6 million people that die... family memebers... did the CIA kill them too?

posted on Sep, 13 2005 @ 05:33 PM
Hi there and please understand I have read a lot of your posts here at ATS. Perhap's not all posts and definately not all the meat in them. However, I have noticed your posts seem to ring a constant about them.

In one post or another -- time in and time out your views seem to attempt to slap the United States of America in whole.

If that is true?, and that is where you feel it best to be Souljah -- mayhap's you can explain why.

I take no sides but I can see consistancy and seems to me your consistantly against the past and present at least in military actions and Federal Policies related to the United States of I correct?

Thank You..

posted on Sep, 13 2005 @ 05:44 PM
Go Soulja! I am an American but the more I learn about how our government conducts "business" in other countries, the less proud I become. I have just finished reading "The Arrogance of Power", by J. William Fulbright. It was written in 1966. The same crap has certainly been going on for many years. People are just beginning to notice.

posted on Sep, 13 2005 @ 10:00 PM

Originally posted by CindyfromFlorida
Go Soulja! I am an American but the more I learn about how our government conducts "business" in other countries, the less proud I become. I have just finished reading "The Arrogance of Power", by J. William Fulbright. It was written in 1966. The same crap has certainly been going on for many years. People are just beginning to notice.

this is long but worth it ..

The Origins of the Overclass

By Steve Kangas

Mod Edit: Removed article and substituted with link...

Yikes! That was a friggin huge copy and paste....Next time just provide a link - If you find certain parts worth commenting on, quote small portions of it, but no need to post the whole article...If you're not sure how to insert a link, you can find your answers here

[edit on 9/14/2005 by EnronOutrunHomerun]

posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 04:33 PM

Originally posted by CindyfromFlorida
Go Soulja! I am an American but the more I learn about how our government conducts "business" in other countries, the less proud I become. I have just finished reading "The Arrogance of Power", by J. William Fulbright. It was written in 1966. The same crap has certainly been going on for many years. People are just beginning to notice.

True, but if you learn more about some other government work, than you will notice that the US gov. is the lesser of those evils.

posted on Jan, 26 2006 @ 10:57 PM
One thing to keep in mind is that the time period this alleged CIA agent reports on was the time of the cold war.
The US was involved in a strategic war of sorts with the Soviet Union. While the US and USSR never actually fired shots at one another directly
(Although it's been stated even on the history channel that most of the North Korean and North Vietnamese fighter pilots who took to the skies against us were actually Soviet Pilots on loan)
the two nations used client states to push their strategic balance across the globe.
If what this man says is true, and I don't know, the USSR is just as guilty as we are for those deaths.
The Czechs, Hungarians and Poles suffered terribly under Soviet rule especially after those nations tried to rebel, and the Soviets slaughtered them.
N. Korea was a client state of the USSR who spent billions financing its armed forces to seize the remainder of the Korean peninsula.
The Soviets tried desperately to create a Communist presence in Latin America which worked off and on, and even today the echoes of those conflicts are still beign felt, especially in Columbia.
North Vietnam was a puppet regime of both USSR and the Peoples Republic of China.
USSR invaded Afghanistan and murdered hundreds of thousands.

Another thing to remember, alot of the anti-war rhetoric from the Vietnam war was a part of the Soviet sponsered psy-ops program called Dich Van. Alot of American academics (unwittingly I hope) joined the cause and became mouthpieces for the Soviet agenda.
My personal feeling si that alot of the current anti-admin and anti-American rhetoric in this country is leftover Dich Van.

posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 12:32 AM
Ok, to start from the begining. The CIA by no means is full of angels. If that were the case, we wouldnt be where we are now. In the world of intelligence, you dont back down to be "the better man," you go lower than your enemy to show them that you are not to be messed with. As for Vietnam and Korea, those are enemy combatants. Are you forgetting the Chinese sent 270,000 troops across the Yalu River? It was a war of agression by the North, and Kim Il-Sung went to Stalin before hand for support and Stalin approved of the invasion. The UN voted to aid SK in that conflict and the US was joined by 15 other nations in that fight, so dont get on the US about Korea.

As for Vietnam:

The lowest casualty estimates, based on North Vietnamese statements which are now discounted by Vietnam, are around 1.5 million Vietnamese killed. Vietnam's Ministry of Labor, War Invalids and Social Affairs released figures on April 3, 1995, reporting that 1.1 million fighters—Viet Cong guerrillas and North Vietnamese soldiers—and nearly 2 million civilians in the north and the south were killed between 1954 and 1975. Other figures run as high as 4 million civilian casualties with 1 million casualties being NVA or VC fighters. Robert McNamara, in his regretful memoir of the war, references a figure of 3.2 million. The number of wounded fighters was put at 600,000. It remains even more unclear how many Vietnamese civilians were wounded.

You cant blame all of these Casualties on the CIA. While it was involved in Vietnam and Korea, it lost casulaties during operations in both of these countries. A majority of casualties in both wars are due more to combat and land mines as opposed to the CIA. There is certainly no possible way it could be that high. There is no official casualty list for the North Koreans or the VC and NVA. All numbers are disputed, not even the CIA knows those numbers because of the chaos during these conflicts. And even if there were, theres no possible way that the CIA was involved in squad level combat where most of the casualties were seen. Angola was an attrocity yes.

By trying to pin all of these deaths on the CIA is simply unreasonable. Logically it isnt even possible due to the intensity and common rate of combat during these two conflicts. Most of these casualties(98% at least were due to combat, and the civilian casualties due to them being cuaght in the middle of it all) You cant simply claim that the CIA was responsible for all of these, the numbers dont add up when it is the Air Force, Army, Navy and Marine Corps. doing all of the fighting. The CIA is involved in illegal operations, but thats how the black world works, in every intelligence agency including your own. Its a dirty world and it extends to every corner of it.

About the video. How does this guy go public with so much highly classified information and not get suicided? Hmmm, kinda makes you wonder because this would be considered highly sensitive information crucial to national security. He would have been silenced in some way before he started. You dont think they would be watching a high ranking official who resigned under a sudden attack of conscience?

Korean War
Vietnam War
CIA Controversies

posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 11:01 PM
ludaChris, I couldn't agree more. To pin everything onto the CIA is not only wrong its also quite ignorant.
Nothing occurs in a vacum. (Terrible speller, apoligize ahead of time)
I get so fed up with everybody beating the worn out tom tom of the Vietnam war when so few in this country really understand it.
The events, causes and political attitudes of the war were so distorted by a blatantly pro Communist media that the whole truth of that war will probably never be seen in our lifetime.
Whats even sadder is that the Nam vets, many of whome volunteered or if drafted still fought bravely and nobly, are to this day labeled as shell shocked psychos instead of the heroes that they are.
Warriors share a bond, and the Nam vets were warriors, they should be welcomed and honored as the true builders of this country that they are.
As far as Vietnam not being in a vacum, remember, the North was a Communist state, a puppet government of the global domination hungering Soviet Union.
Also you can never prove the casualty lists of the Communists during the war. Their own propaganda precluded them from truthfully divulgin their casualties to their won citizenry UNTIL IT SUITED THEIR OWN AGENDA!!!!

Personally, I think we need to realise that the reason that this country is so hated is because we are the big kid on the block and all the other kids are envious. Its a historical cycle, we're the modern day Rome, the modern day British Empire. One day we'll fall, that too is a cycle, and more than likely China will be there to pick up the pieces. And guess what?

Also ludaChris....Panthers lost. Not trying to gloat, I wanted to see a Panthers/Colts SuperBowl.

posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 11:47 PM

-250,000 dead in El Salvador. CIA backed the Contras with money,weapons,everything they needed. They were savage mercenaries not "freedom fighters".

-33,000 dead as a result of Augusto Pinochet's CIA backed rule.

-30,000 dead in Argentina in a single junta's 15 year rule. Backed by the CIA.

-thousands dead in Iran due to the Shah's brutal rule.

-thousands dead in Indonesia, again- a CIA backed coup' d'etat

-2000 Kurds and thousands of Iraqis dead due to Saddam Hussein

- people dying right now in Haiti. Another CIA backed coup against a democratic goverment.

That's just at the top of my head. Clearly America is hated for a reason.

posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 02:14 PM

Originally posted by ANOK
When was the last time Russia or China or France or whoever invaded a sovereign country?

1949 China invades Tibet
1979 China invades Vietnam
1979 Soviet Union invades Afghanistan
1983 France invades Algeria
1994 Russia invades Chechnya

Look dude, I don't like what the CIA and U.S. government have done either, from what I've heard something around 6 million people have died because of CIA and U.S. government sponsored guerrillas and rebels.
But Russia, China, France etc. are not the "good guys" you might think they are. They are sneaky bastards aswell.

posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 02:43 PM
Just a few points..

1. No one is saying China Russia etc where good guys. NO ONE has said that. So stop acting like they are.

2. This is about proving the US is not as good and at least for the last 100 years or so has never been as good as our goverment tells us we are.

3. (qoute from TV last night.) Its extremely hard to take the moral high ground when everyone's feet are stuck in the mud.

4. Its been proven time and time again the actions of the CIA and many other goverment agencies in the US follow no laws, heed no moral decisions, and overall do some of the worst evil this world has ever seen.

5. How can ANY of you stand and pretend this is ok? How is murdering hundred of thousands, or millions, or even ten people OK? There is no excuse and no justification.

Souljah may be the worst anti-american on these boards, but even he gets it right once in a while. Our goverment especially now is one of the worst in the world. I still hold some hope in the american dream, and the reasons which this country were founded. Those are fading quite fast from me these days and from many others I'm afraid.

posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 02:57 PM
Excuse me, but it was not CIA eho killed those millions of people. Those are the people who perished during the Cold War. For example the largest anti comunist massacre occured in Indonesia, but it was the Indonesian who killed those people not CIA, the same can be said about all Latin America conflicts. ALL OF THEM were civil wars (although CIA/US backed one side, the USSR another). Those people would be killed anyway, it was not so that CIA ordered the killing and rightist blindly obeyed.
Claims about Vietnam - he says that "we panicked people to immigrate to the south" and "before real start of Vietnam War 2 million people were killed" but does it mean they were killed by CIA? NO! It was Vietkong who slaughtered the most people, CIA not even touched them, but somehow this expert counts them as casualities caused by Americans... How about blame the people who are responsible.
And the claims about Korean War are outrageous - it was not CIA operation but UN LED WAR against NORTH KOREAN AGRESSORS!!! How can anyone say that US were bad guys, while they defended South Korea against enemy agresion condemned by UN? Is CIA guilty also, because NK and Chinese slaughtered and removed Korean civilians? It was not even CIA action, it was war. So please don't count war losses (even those caused by ENEMY into CIA victims).
So I suppose there was maximum 1 000 000 people killed in covert operations with CIA involvement (end even that doesn't mean they killed them, or ordered their killing), majority of them (800 000) in Indonesia.
But do you know what's the best about it? That it worked. US won the cold war against USSR and now the "pinky left" members like Souljah can only grind their teeth in frustration.

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