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Anti War Websites

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posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 02:50 AM
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I decided to look into what is being said on some popular anti war websites.
Do they have any credibility to what they print?

Can you look at the websites and see them promoting outright lies for their benefit?




Trying to create democracy at the point of a foreign bayonet was a fool's errand from the beginning. It can't be done. My guess is the Iraqis will eventually choose another strongman to give them what they most want, which is security, functioning utilities and jobs. What we have done with our invasion and error-riddled occupation is create the perfect conditions for a new dictator.


www.antiwar.com...




Nor have we been able to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure. Fifteen months of American occupation and the Iraqis still don't have full-time, reliable electric service. Evidence of our failure is the fact that Paul Bremer, our proconsul, had to almost surreptitiously turn over the reins to an interim government and practically sneak out of Iraq surrounded by heavy security. No farewell parties for him.


www.antiwar.com...

They go on and on.

What do they want the leaders to do?




In particular, we demand that you:

* Set an early date for the swift withdrawal of your troops from occupied Iraq, as the Italian government has been forced to do, and restore full and unconditional sovereignty to the Iraqi people.

* Pledge not to launch attacks against Iran, Syria, or any other sovereign state, to abide in future by international law, abandon the pernicious doctrine of “pre-emptive war” and to seek the peaceful resolution of international disputes.

* Cease placing restrictions on the human rights of the citizens of the USA, Britain and other countries of the world, end the torture of detainees and all imprisonment without trial – at Guantanamo Bay above all.

* Cease all support for Israel’s illegal and brutal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, as a pre-requisite for any peace between Israel and the Palestinian people.

* Comply with your obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and begin to disarm your own nuclear weapons.



www.stopwar.org.uk...

Here is a source list of anti war websites

My simple question is, do these people know the facts about these conflicts, or are they distorting the truth.

Please provide source examples if you wish to point something out.


[edit on 27-8-2005 by Dulcimer]




posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 10:25 AM
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My simple question is, do you know the facts about these conflicts, or are you distorting the truth?





posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by Dulcimer
I decided to look into what is being said on some popular anti war websites.
Do they have any credibility to what they print?

Can you look at the websites and see them promoting outright lies for their benefit?

--snip--

My simple question is, do these people know the facts about these conflicts, or are they distorting the truth.

Please provide source examples if you wish to point something out.




I didn't see any lies in the examples you posted.
There was some opinion regarding the Iraqi people wanting a dictator but the other things like electricity and about Paul Bremer hauling ass out of there are true.

According to the Brookings Institute the Iraqis have only 11.7 hours of electricity per day in August. Some people have to sleep outside, with some sleeping on top of the roofs of their houses because it is too hot inside and they don't have reliable electricity to power fans or airconditioners.

You can read through the Brooking's Institute Iraq Index here:
www.brookings.edu...



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by Dulcimer


www.antiwar.com...
Trying to create democracy at the point of a foreign bayonet was a fool's errand from the beginning. It can't be done. My guess is the Iraqis will eventually choose another strongman to give them what they most want, which is security, functioning utilities and jobs. What we have done with our invasion and error-riddled occupation is create the perfect conditions for a new dictator.



I can't argue with this statement, and therefore, i won't.

Sanc'.



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 11:33 AM
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I think that theres good and bad to both sides. Both sides are being manipulated. I feel for the mothers who have to bury their sons, but I also feel for the citizens of Iraq who were oppresed under Saddams regime.

But I also know that we cant just up and leave now. If we did, then why did we go at all. We cant leave untill these people have a functioning government, utilities and the ability to police themselves. Even then, we will never fully leave. The day we do, is the day civil war begins.



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by Roy Robinson Stewart


My simple question is, do you know the facts about these conflicts, or are you distorting the truth?




No I dont, if I did I would provide facts. But thanks for the excellent use of too many emoticons.

P.S. I never said that my examples in my post were lies, in fact they are just opinions from the writer.



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by Dulcimer
My simple question is, do these people know the facts about these conflicts, or are they distorting the truth.


I don't know if they know the facts of the conflicts but I certainly would assume they do, simply because it would be foolish to form such strong opinions without knowing at least some of the facts.

Most modern 'anti-war' people are not just 'crazy hippies' carrying flowers and wanting to spread peace and love, man. The anti-war activist of today is usually an extremely well-educated professional, has a family, doesn't do psychedelic drugs and educates him or herself in the substance of the conflict. That's what makes them anti-war. They have researched it and formed these opinions.

I have no formal source on that, but I'm speaking from personal experience.

Now, as regards democracy... The very basic definition of a democracy is a government BY the people. A government formed by the people. The very thought of having a democracy gifted to a people is contradictory.

Imagine giving a 21-year-old a house as a gift, free and clear. Imagine how well they'll take care of it if they didn't have to work for it at all. Imagine how much it would mean to them, how much work they'd be willing to do to keep it in repair and take care of it. How much would they appreciate it? Can there be pride in something that's given to you?

Now, imagine co-signing a mortgage for that same 21-year-old for a house that they really want and they've asked you to help them acquire. They have to work and make payments and pay the insurance. Imagine how well they'll take care of it knowing how hard they have to work to make the payments. Imagine how much it would mean to them, how proud they'd be of doing it for themselves. Imagine how much work they'd be willing to do to keep it in repair and take care of it.

I know Iraq's not an 21-year-old and I know democracy's not a house, and I know that they have suffered through these last few years, but the analogy illustrates that a government created by the people, a government they have to fight for and work hard for themselves will thrive, be something to be proud of and to appreciate and hold onto whatever the future brings.

Whereas a government that they're really unfamiliar with, that is thrust upon them will surely die the minute we leave. This Iraq Democracy did not come from the people, it was handed to them in the middle of a terrible conflict. Sure they may say now, "Yes! We want a democracy"!, but I'll guarantee you that 21-year-old said, "Yes! I want a house! Thank you"!

This story, I also bring from personal knowledge. The house fell to disrepair within a few years. There were rats. It wasn't appreciated. She didn't know what she had. She didn't have to work for it. In fact, she complained that it wasn't nice enough.

I would love to see a democracy in Iraq, if that's what the people really want. Think of how the US struggled to gain their democracy. The people were part and parcel in creating the government. It was their idea, they had to work hard for it, they had to work together. Only through the experience of creating our democracy did the people find pride, appreciation, determination, strength of conviction, and patriotism.

And in our elementary history classes, every generation is taught the struggle that the people waged and through that knowledge, the feeling of pride and patriotism is passed down to each of us.




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