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US declares Taiwan a Sovereign Nation

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posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 01:32 PM
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While talking about the Arms package of things like Missiles defense systems & deisel subs Rumsfeld also said that Taiwan is a sovereign nation.

Tiawan a Sovereign Nation


U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld called Taiwan a "sovereign nation" Tuesday and added that it was Taiwan's choice whether or not to buy a $15 billion weaponry package on offer from the Bush administration.




The armaments package, approved by President Chen Shui-bian and his government, has been blocked by opposition primarily from former Chinese Nationalist Party chairman Lien Chan


I bet China just loved that announcement! (sarcasm)

I believe this is the first time he has said such...China still thinks that Taiwan is apart of them. Wonder what will happen if Taiwan declares its self also to be sovereign.?




posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 01:34 PM
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The only reason he made sure to declare them is a Sovereign Nation is because of the huge weapons deal that was busted when Colin Powell did NOT recongnize them as a sovereign nation and they canceled their bid.



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 02:45 PM
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15 Billion? That’s a big weapons deal, anyone have an idea of the specific weapon systems in that deal?



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 02:56 PM
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Here's the article, took me some time to find it, but I found it in some archives..


The statute governing the arms deal with the US failed to pass the Procedure Committee yesterday as the pan-blue camp claimed they objected to the statute in response to US Secretary of State Colin Powell's statement that "Taiwan is not a sovereign state," and the meeting ended in confusion as the lawmakers from the two camps threw their lunch boxes and other items at each other to vent their frustration.

The pan-blue camp lawmakers boycotted the statute yesterday, saying that if Powell does not recognize Taiwan as a sovereign state, then Taiwan should refrain from buying weapons from the US.

While the Cabinet put forward its version of the statute for consideration yesterday, the People First Party (PFP) caucus withdrew its version as a protest to Powell's comments.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


www.taipeitimes.com

I beleive the only reason Rumsfeild acknowledge them as a "sovereign nation" is to get this deal passed. Nothing more.

[edit on 8/26/2005 by QuietSoul]



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 03:20 PM
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"Taiwan is not a sovereign state," and the meeting ended in confusion as the lawmakers from the two camps threw their lunch boxes and other items at each other to vent their frustration.


Oh man that priceless, can someone find me a video of that!



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 03:28 PM
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Playtime's Over


Originally posted by WestPoint23
Oh man that priceless, can someone find me a video of that!

They were probably cranky because they weren't allowed a nap after recess like usual.



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by Murcielago
I believe this is the first time he has said such.


- He can say what he likes till he is blue in the face it won't change a thing as far as Taiwan and China goes.


.China still thinks that Taiwan is apart of them. Wonder what will happen if Taiwan declares its self also to be sovereign.?


- Taiwan won't.
No matter how much 'conditioning the Taiwanese people have had polls show they have no interest whatsoever in becoming an independant 'sovereign nation'.

Rumsfeld is whistling in the wind and trying to stir, that's all.



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 04:26 PM
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Hey, Taiwan better watch out. Sovereign countries seem to be eligible to have their governments overthrown by the US.



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by ben91069
Hey, Taiwan better watch out. Sovereign countries seem to be eligible to have their governments overthrown by the US.


- You do know the US and Taiwan are allies...dont you?

and QuietSoul, thanks for adding additional info...it sounds like your right about the sovereignty = weapons buy, thing.



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by Murcielago

Originally posted by ben91069
Hey, Taiwan better watch out. Sovereign countries seem to be eligible to have their governments overthrown by the US.


- You do know the US and Taiwan are allies...dont you?



Yes, I know this. It wasn't that long ago that Iraq was an allied nation as well when we had it out for Iran.



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- Taiwan won't.
No matter how much 'conditioning the Taiwanese people have had polls show they have no interest whatsoever in becoming an independant 'sovereign nation'..



which polls? show what you tell us, and what conditioning are you talking about? can you prove what you claim?



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by ben91069

Yes, I know this. It wasn't that long ago that Iraq was an allied nation as well when we had it out for Iran.


oh yea we supported iraq for 57 years too right?



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by namehere
which polls? show what you tell us


- I thought anyone following this story would have seen stories about the polls resolutely showing a Taiwanese people utterly uninterested in independance.


People had mixed views on cross-strait relations last year. About 30% of the people believe cross-strait relations in 2001 were more or less the same as in previous years.
A quarter of respondents said relations improved in 2001, with the same percentage saying relations worsened.
Regarding the situation in which PRC Foreign Minister Tang Jianxuan showed a bullying attitude to Taipei representatives at APEC Shanghai meetings in October, 68% believe that this could have a negative impact on future cross-strait relations.
Asked about their forecasts for future relations between the two sides, 47% responded that things would be more or less the same, and 52% said there would be no major improvement.
Moreover, 53% of the people hoped the government could send more friendly signals and take initiative in improving cross-strait relations.

Those in favor of “maintaining the status quo and leading toward independence in the future” represent about 10%.
Those at the extreme ends seeking quick unification or immediate independence belong to the smallest groups, with less than 10% support respectively.


www.mac.gov.tw...


All opinion polls conducted in Taiwan show that 80% of the population favors maintenance of the status quo in cross-Strait relations.

www.mac.gov.tw...


After the October 10 speech by president Chen in 2004, support for independence reached new heights.
Polls suggest that nearly 30% of Taiwanese residents now support independence, and an even higher percentage would support the construction of a Republic of Taiwan in 2008, as the final step after the proposed constitutional revisions in 2006.
Support for One Country, Two Systems, the proposed solution by the PRC, is between 5-7%.
The majority (just below 60%) still support the status quo, which is to leave Taiwan's status exactly the way that it is and to leave the issue of whether to become independent or reunify for a future date.

en.wikipedia.org...


Taiwan leader Chen Shui-bian had intended to reap the biggest gains from the polls.

His hopes, however, were shattered by the election results.

Before the election, Chen's pan-green camp of ruling Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) and Taiwan Solidarity Union strived to to increase its influence in the 225-seat "parliament" and even wrest an absolute majority.

Chen had repeatedly promised to use control of the "Legislative Yuan" to facilitate his pro-independence push.

Since Chen rose to power in May 2000 and was re-elected in March, he has done nothing to improve cross-Straits ties because of his pro-independence stance.

However, Chen's camp was defeated by the opposition coalition of Kuomintang (KMT), People First Party and New Party in the "legislative" elections.

Li Jiaquan, a senior researcher with the Institute of Taiwan Studies under the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, says Saturday's poll results fully demonstrated the unpopularity of Chen's policy.

www.china-embassy.org...




what conditioning are you talking about? can you prove what you claim?


- Several prominent Taiwanese politicians have been advocates of Taiwanese independance for years.


Chen's comments were his toughest since taking office in May 2000. At the end of Saturday's speech, Reuters reported that the Taiwan leader stood and punched his right hand in the air as the master of ceremonies shouted, "Taiwan stands up!" and "Taiwan walks its own path!"

The tone of his speech was similar to a statement made by former President Lee Teng-hui, who said in July 1999 that Taiwan and China have a "special state-to-state" relationship.

Lee's words angered China, which in turn accused the president of taking Taiwan on a reckless path towards independence.

archives.cnn.com...

Several prominent Taiwanese politicians have banged on and on about Taiwanese independance for years but sadly for them the Taiwanese people are just not interested in anything beyond the status quo.

This is all hot air anyway, Washington has backed right away from this issue as the business community have made their views clear, tensions and any kind of conflict would be bad for business, all that is left is the sabre-rattling.

From that font of all right-wing 'thinking' Fox -


Bush Opposes Taiwan Independence
Tuesday, December 09, 2003

WASHINGTON — Tuesday was not Taiwan's day at the White House, as President Bush announced that the U.S. had asked the island republic to cancel a referendum American officials feel would be provocative toward Beijing.

"The United States policy is one China (search)," Bush said after a 40-minute Oval Office meeting with mainland Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao (search).

"We oppose any unilateral decision by either China or Taiwan to change the status quo," Bush told reporters, "and the comments and actions made by the leader of Taiwan" — referring to President Chen Shui-bian (search) — "indicate that he may be willing to make decisions unilaterally."

www.foxnews.com...



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 05:47 PM
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Well I dont think the US can decalre anyone sovereign except the US.

But why do I have things in my house that say "Made in Taiwan"? Shouldnt they say "Made in China"? Im not trying to make any point, Ive just always wondered that.



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 06:04 PM
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OK.....it is becoming clearer now. Colin Powell did not want to be on the team anymore. I admire his ability to get out of the game before all the feces hit the proverbal fan. Was he speaking his mind? I think he may have been and George didn't like the way he was playing along with Rummy and they ganged up on him and Powell had the right to exercise his option of getting off at the next stop.



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 06:47 PM
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Im sure china's blood is boiling.

Has anyone ever tried Chinese Military Forum??

much of it is just hilarious.
Don't know why I go there everyday



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 07:06 PM
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Boiling Point


Originally posted by evanfitz
Has anyone ever tried Chinese Military Forum??

much of it is just hilarious.
Don't know why I go there everyday

I think you answered your own question: you go because it is just hilarious.


Just remember, though, these guys have nukes.



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by ben91069
Hey, Taiwan better watch out. Sovereign countries seem to be eligible to have their governments overthrown by the US.


What a priceless idea!

We declare Taiwan sovereign and sell them weapons.
Then we invade them in order to protect our interest.
I hear hollywood calling.

I must be insane! This actually makes sense ben91069!



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 07:50 PM
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Just remember, though, these guys have nukes.


That's irrelevant unless they also want to be destroyed by nukes.



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 08:19 PM
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Hmm Taiwan sovereign. Well lets think.
-In the 30 and 40s China was in civil war between the nationalists and communists.
-Japan attacked China and the civil war was put on hold for a few years. Mao and the nationalist leader Chiang tried to get the US to ally with one of them at that time.
-US backed KMT and Chiang which irked Mao leading to his anti-US policies.
-Japan had to surrender to to KMT as part of the unconditional surrender.
-The US gave the nationalists billions of dollars of surplus but they were still beaten back by the PLA.
-Then Chiang and some 2,000,000 refugees fleed from china to Taiwan and created the Repuplic of China.
-Mao seized control of the mainland and proclaimed it the Peoples Republic of China.

So if USA originally sided with the KMT against the Communists then I guess its the Peoples Republic of China that isnt sovereign in the US's eyes




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