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Iraq on brink of meltdown

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posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 06:29 AM
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The credibility of Iraq's political process was in danger last night as parliament again failed to vote on a draft constitution which a Sunni politician said was "fit only for the bin".



The government had earlier announced plans to bypass parliament in an attempt to push through the document.

But as the final hours ran out before the deadline for approving the constitution, Hajim al-Hassani, the speaker of the parliament, appeared to overrule the country's leaders by insisting that negotiations would continue today, meaning that the deadline would be missed for the third time.

The impression of growing crisis in Iraq was reinforced when a new front erupted in the violent rebellion, with Shia Muslims fighting each other with guns and rocket-propelled grenades.

Ibrahim al-Jaafari, the prime minister, made an emergency television appeal for peace and sent two police commando units to Najaf where the fighting had started.

Throughout the day in Baghdad, politicians bickered over how to proceed with the constitution without driving the country to civil war.

Gunmen opened fire yesterday on a convoy of cars used by the president but Jalal Talabani was not in it. Four bodyguards were wounded.

In what appeared to be an attempt to inflame sectarian tensions, the bodies of 37 Shia soldiers, killed with a single bullet to the head, were found in a shallow river south of Baghdad, the latest of several such grim discoveries. Police said they had been stripped to their underwear.

At least 12 people were killed as his Mahdi Army militia clashed with members of the Iranian-linked Badr Brigade in six cities and a Baghdad suburb. Sadr has now formed common cause with the Sunnis, fearing that federalism will play into the hands of Iran.

The Badr Brigade is the armed wing of the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq, which dominated the elections. It wants the southern states to become a semi-autonomous region with partial control over its revenues and security.

Source:
Telegraph

Apparently the goverment of Iraq does not have the control over the lands or the people. With the Militas on the Rise Across Iraq and Tribal Law taking shape and form, no constitution is going to settle down this problems - Especially if the Badr Brigade, led by the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq, which dominated the elections, fights to have semi-autonomous states in the South. Civil War on the horizont?




posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 06:44 AM
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Yup, Iraq will collapse, the conservatives will be unapologetic. The anti war people will say 'told you so' and in the middle of the recriminations that reverberate around the West tens of thousands of innocent people will die.

Why?

For one nations idiocy and greed.



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 06:59 AM
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Originally posted by Uncle Joe
Yup, Iraq will collapse, the conservatives will be unapologetic. The anti war people will say 'told you so' and in the middle of the recriminations that reverberate around the West tens of thousands of innocent people will die.

I guess that's Democracy...




posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 07:23 AM
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The sad fact is that many people think that the Middle East would better off having a complete democracy and freedom. Yes, the ordinary citizens would love that because in democracy they have more say. However, the aristocrats, rich, upper class, elites or whatever you want to call them will lose power and eventually lose some money. Indeed, the fact is democracy wouldn't work as well as the people would want it in the Middle East.

In my opinion, the nations there should adopt a kind of Pakistan-style government. Dictatorship..but still, it's better than having democracy and yet trouble still brewing because of it. Hey, call me insane and slap me, Pervez Musharaf does make a good dictator. In a good way of course.



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 07:43 AM
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``

it seems that the USA is sending between 2-3 battalions of Airborne Troops
over there, for the October voting it is said.

i think the Bush regime along with Blair, are prepared for the potential
civil-war... and have had in their contingency plans the division of Iraq
into 3 seperate States....
i also wouldn't dismiss the use of small yield, tactical nukes, in defending
against the amassing MahdiArmy.

in the interim...UncleSam will 'throw money at the problem'

(i'm borrowing from the TV commercial by IBM Solutions,
with the Medieval King with his cohorts at the great-rooms table,
the King alone hears & feels the rumble of great changes coming
which are shaking his realm & castle, to its foundations.
A sense of urgency affects the King, but the Kings counsel as the
consumate in-the-box thinker, presents the King with a gordo
canvas sack....the King asks 'whats in there?'
the counselor boastingly replies 'money'- - - )



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 07:46 AM
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Democracy is not the issue.

The reason Iraq MAY collapse (it wont) is foreign jihadist with agendas that have nothing to do with Iraq. The Iraqi's were thrilled two years ago when the US tanks came rolling in. Add a handful of Jihadist’s out for Islamic world domination to the mix to destabilize things and dissent starts. They played their cards perfectly: Kill a bunch of people (mostly Iraqi's) to bring uncertainty and doubt. Then recruit the Iraqi’s themselves to do more of the same and there you have it: Mayhem.

Oh, and btw: Iraq is just fine, and in no way will they collapse. Other sources report daily of all the wonderful things happening there and all of the successes. But you won’t report on those as they don’t fit your “Doom & Gloom” agenda.




posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 07:52 AM
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it has been obvious that any contry 'liberated' from an evil dictatorship will suffer highly. not from the war but from the confusion that follows. they just dont know how to live in democracy. they are just used to living in a dictatorship.



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
Democracy is not the issue.

The reason Iraq MAY collapse (it wont) is foreign jihadist with agendas that have nothing to do with Iraq. The Iraqi's were thrilled two years ago when the US tanks came rolling in. Add a handful of Jihadist’s out for Islamic world domination to the mix to destabilize things and dissent starts. They played their cards perfectly: Kill a bunch of people (mostly Iraqi's) to bring uncertainty and doubt. Then recruit the Iraqi’s themselves to do more of the same and there you have it: Mayhem.

Oh, and btw: Iraq is just fine, and in no way will they collapse. Other sources report daily of all the wonderful things happening there and all of the successes. But you won’t report on those as they don’t fit your “Doom & Gloom” agenda.



Yes, there are successes. But frankly the drumbeat of disaster is always going to drown them out. Face facts - Iraq is a mess. The civilian death toll since the war ended has been horrendous. The 1800 US dead is the figure that gets reported most often. Sadly the Iraqi death toll is far higher. If you join the Iraqi army or police force, you are a target. If you join the government you are a target. If you even walk down the street at the wrong time you are a target.
We are facing a brutal truth here - the country is fracturing along fault lines - Kurd, Sunni, Shia - that have always been there since the country was formed out of the rubble of the Ottoman Empire. All three have their own agenda and priorities, which is why the Constitution is just a mess. The Sunnis want to go back to the good old days when they were in charge. The Shias (or rather the Mullahs) want a Theocracy. The Kurds want to be left alone to run their own little statelet (which has been surprisingly successful. If you want to see what's right with Iraq, look there, the place is booming). Creating a constitution that fits the needs of all three is almost impossible. That's not to say that it can't be done. But it will need much better diplomacy than we have had so far.
We also need to admit that we (The US and UK) have bungled this thing. The US went in with far too few soldiers to handle the occupation. Too much damage was done to the infrastructure during the war. Not enough thought was taken as to how the country would be run afterwards. That's the thing that enrages me - Too much was done on the cheap and hoping that things would just come together and work out. We need to admit that we were wrong about certain things and stop lecturing them. And frankly Bush's actions have been self-serving and hypocritical. We have to stop putting ideology over common sense. It doesn't work, it never has, and no amount of posturing on the part of the President is going to change that.
And now we're dealing with the butcher's bill.



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
Iraq is just fine, and in no way will they collapse. Other sources report daily of all the wonderful things happening there and all of the successes. But you won’t report on those as they don’t fit your “Doom & Gloom” agenda.

Iraq is "Just Fine"?

Here's the latest headling from Iraq - which in your opinion means "Fine":

25 dead as militias clash in gun battles

Fighting in Iraq flares on eve of charter vote

Six shot dead in Iraqi cafe

Gunmen kill two bodyguards of Iraqi president

Mortar attacks kill two Iraqis, injure eight others in Mosul

REUTERS - Security incidents in Iraq, Aug 25

36 executed bodies found in Iraq

Bloody Shiite on Shiite Clashes in the South

#e Party Offices Attacked In Basara

The Photos Washington Doesn't Want You To See

Tennessee National Guard soldiers killed in Iraq

Iraq Shi'ite militias fight as splits emerge

Clashes between Badr and Sadr

Hmmmm, Maybe I am missing something, but these news coming from various International Sources do not exactly report of Iraq being "Fine" - and they don't have any "Doom & Gloom" Agende either.

So, care to explain that?



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 04:43 AM
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A draft of a constitution has been signed in Iraq today. Some Sunni`s agreed, others did not.


Guardian: Iraq crisis deepens as Sunnis reject deal

August 28, 2005


Last-ditch attempts to rescue Iraq's political process appeared to have collapsed yesterday when negotiations over a new constitution acceptable to all three major communities ended in failure and disarray.

As Sunni negotiators accused the Shia and Kurdish coalition of failing to make any movement towards consensus - effectively rejecting the draft document - officials from the Shia-dominated government insisted the talks over the long-delayed document were complete and that it would be presented to the Iraqi parliament for ratification today.

The apparent steam-rollering of Sunni objections after marathon talks ended yesterday led to Sunni claims that the failure of the talks had brought the country another step closer to civil war.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


CNN: Committee signs Iraq's draft constitution

Breaking news


The Iraqi constitutional committee has signed off on a draft of a constitution Sunday after making some minor amendments, a committee spokesman said.

Some Sunnis agreed to the amendments, he said, while others did not.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
Yup, Iraq will collapse, the conservatives will be unapologetic. The anti war people will say 'told you so' and in the middle of the recriminations that reverberate around the West tens of thousands of innocent people will die.

I guess that's Democracy...

Or communism, or socialism, or..



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
Yup, Iraq will collapse, the conservatives will be unapologetic. The anti war people will say 'told you so' and in the middle of the recriminations that reverberate around the West tens of thousands of innocent people will die.

I guess that's Democracy...

Or communism, or socialism, or..

But we are talking about Iraq Today and how the USA "imported" Democracy here - but actually casuing a bitter struggle between religious/ethnic groups.



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 08:20 AM
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But we are talking about Iraq Today and how the USA "imported" Democracy here - but actually casuing a bitter struggle between religious/ethnic groups.



This was bound to happen anyway, and yes it is IMO likely iraq will degenerate into civil war. Bush is an idiot, he had his own private little war and he screwed that up, now he just studders and stammers to the media and is bearly understandable. I think to myself is it possible for one man to be so stupid or is he securing a bid for someone else as president next time around?



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by Uncle Joe
Yup, Iraq will collapse, the conservatives will be unapologetic. The anti war people will say 'told you so' and in the middle of the recriminations that reverberate around the West tens of thousands of innocent people will die.


Very succinct and well-said!

Just to add:
I have a really bad feeling that the blame for this inevitable disaster will be laid at the feet of the people who have been against this 'action' all along, the Democrats, the liberals, the anti-Iraq-war folks. Somehow it will be spun that the ridiculous notion of ‘sympathy for the terrorists’ or lack of support for the war will be the reason it failed.

In other words, those responsible, those who started this war and supported it all along, will point the finger at their ‘rivals’ in this political nightmare and say, “It’s all their fault! If they had only behaved like we told them to, it would have worked out just fine”!



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 09:39 AM
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why do I get the feeling that some people on this board will hope for the worse?



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by evanfitz
why do I get the feeling that some people on this board will hope for the worse?


That's an interesting question. Why do you get that feeling?

I think maybe some of us like to think we have a more 'realistic' idea of what the future holds, but really, none of us knows for sure. I certainly don't hope for the worst, and I don't have very high hopes for us pulling out of this with a rosy ending.

Don't confuse a realistic forecast of disaster with hopes or wishes for disaster. Surely no one hopes for the worst here.



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 10:25 AM
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Yes Iraq is on the brink of meltdown, the meltdown of any control by coalition forces whatsoever. Yes there is sectarian fighting, but most of it seems to be played up so coalition forces do not bear responsibility. Hey we tried to bring them democracy right? The savages just couldn't handle it. B.S.

Even the Badr brigade that was mentioned in the original post is pro US, and US backed. Start researching who is fighting and who is behind them. The U.S has been trying to spark a civil war since the beginning, from the dismissal of troops, to the placement of a puppet government that supports the massacres of sunnis, too much has coincidentally happened to be kosher.

Shadow reports of Zarquawi, and his actions, who most Iraqis doubt the existence of. The refusal to rebuild infrastructure that we destroyed, yet the all too eagerness to build military bases and prisons. The looting of raw materials, natural resources, and national artifacts that end up for sale on the black market are all just coincidence? We are steering this operation into the ground, is it really that hard to see?

IMHO- we planned on a "meltdown" to begin with, why else build permanent bases and prisons? Let the place slide into chaos, those we don't kill will fight each other with a little manipulation. This gives us the chance to stay for "security", at the request of the new Iraqi government of course. After all we can't just cut and run, right?

Oh and never mind those billions missing from petroleum revenue, and reconstruction funds.......Look over yonder, Iran has nukes!.......LMFAO



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 12:16 PM
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Civil war looms in Iraq as constitution talks end in disarray



Weeks of bitter wrangling over Iraq's constitution ended in disarray yesterday, threatening the country with further violence and undermining efforts towards a timetable for American disengagement.

Two polls published last week suggested that Mr Bush's job approval rating is now at its lowest point since he began the presidency. A Harris poll put Mr Bush's rating at 40 per cent and suggested 58 per cent of the US public had a negative opinion of the President's performance. His approval rating in June was 45 per cent.

A poll for the American Research Group put his approval rating at just 36 per cent. Fifty-nine per cent of the people polled said the country was "seriously off on the wrong track".

Source:
Independant Online



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