Frosty's Three Laws of Fraudulent Perpetual and Free-Energy Machines, page 1
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Topic started on 25-8-2005 @ 11:46 PM by Frosty
Occasionally on this forum, and others, there are post about free energy or perpetual motion machines. These are frauds and this post intends to prove why.

First Law: USPTO.

These designs may appear to work on paper at first glance, but have various flaws or obfuscated external power sources that render them useless in practice. This sort of "invention" has become common enough that the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) has made an official policy of refusing to grant patents for perpetual motion machines without a working model. One reason for this concern is that a few "inventors" have waved a patent in front of potential investors, who may believe that said patent proves the machine works.
en.wikipedia.org...


The USPTO will not knowingly issue a patent for a perpetual motion machine and the American Physical Society states, "The American Physical Society deplores attempts to mislead and defraud the public based on claims of perpetual motion machines or sources of unlimited useful free energy, unsubstantiated by experimentally tested established physical principles."
inventors.about.com...


This means that all websites (businesses) claiming to have a patent without a working model are frauds, those which claim to have a working model without a patent are likewise frauds.

Second Law: The history of such machines.

Here is a link with a small exerpt dating the history of these devices back froom the 13th Century!

Villand de Honnecourt 13th century had a drawing of one.
Leonardo da vinci made a number of drawings of things he hoped would make energy for free.
Jesuit priest, Johanes Taisnerius worked on a magnetic based perpetual motion machine
Mimara in 1518 designed a "self-blowing windmill"
John Dee of 16th century reported seeing one - but wasn't allowed a closer look
Cornelis Drebbel 1610, was an alchemist and magician supposedly made one. (hundreds have tried to replicate alchemy too)
Robert Fludd 1630 proposed many machines -people were trying to patent variations of Fludd's failures in the 1870's
1635 - first of many English perpetual motion machine patents granted. - by 1903, 600 such patents had been granted. Free energy claimants love impressing people with patents (most people don't understand that a patent can't promise feasibility)
Edward Somerset 1638 demonstrated many lacking free energy water wheels to the king of France
Ulrich von Carnach in 1664 in Germany designed a perpetual ball moving machine that never worked.
scientist Jean Bernoulli(1667 - 1748) proposed a fluid energy machine
Bockler in 1686 made designs for self powered water mills.
inventors.about.com...://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html


If the USPTO and hundreds of failed attempts over hundreds of years have not yet convinced you...

Third Law: The First and Second Laws of C.P. Snow's Themodynamics.

A perpetual motion machine of the first kind is one which produces power without energy uptake. Such a machine would, once started, operate indefinitely. This is forbidden by the law of conservation of energy.

A perpetual motion machine of the second kind is one which converts heat completely into other forms of energy. Such a device would violate the second law of thermodynamics and would be viewed with great skepticism.

encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com...

Still not convinced? Well, then you must either be stubborn or just laughing at me while your ac is being powered by your free energy machine.

But I do hope this is a deterent to future post and a 'buyer be ware' type warning for those who have not known previously the information above. It should also make a good reference point if future post should arrise.

[edit on 26-8-2005 by Frosty]


reply posted on 27-8-2005 @ 09:54 PM by bargaindan
Frosty,Bravo on your post.There is in fact no such thing as a perpetual motion machine,and certainly no way to provide free energy.Can't be done.

A posting on one of the threads made a reference to Focaults pendulum as a perpetual motion machine and suggested it be magnetized somehow to provide electricity.Neat idea but it would mean destruction for the machine.

The reason it has kept going is because of the negligable amount of resistance in the device.If this pendulum were in another environment or some sort of added piece introduced it would change the working of the device by increasinfg the amount of resistance it encounters and causing it to slow down at a faster rate than it is.

That said ,you should bear in mind that there are many inventors and researchers developing ways to produce power with various devices.Check out the permanent magnet motor thread for one reference.While some erroneously believe they are developing 'free energy' devices, they are not.What they are developing are means to transfer energy from one source,magnets,into another type of energy, electrical power.

Ther have been patented devices that can do this.A Dr. Howard Johnson was working on just such an apparatus until his death.So it can be done.There are a great many problems to be worked out in the concept,and one researcher alone will not be able to find the solution.It will have to come from many different projects,working seperatly,but towards a common goal.

Please try not to ridicule or over-criticize any piece of work simply because it goes against commonly accepted laws of physics.The world of science is constantly changing and evolving.Like I have saisd before,once we thought the world was flat.We believed that the Earth was the center of the universe.We believed we could not travel faster than sound.But you get the idea of what I am saying here.

Perhaps you would like to way in on the PMM project.You seem quite well informed,maybe you could share some insight or resources to help us out.
And too,possibly dig up some more of these charlatons who would have us think we can get free power.

The laws of science change to meet new knowledge and the world grows because of it.Maybe we can change a few laws.


reply posted on 4-9-2005 @ 12:41 AM by Indy
You guys will probably appreciate this site...

www.everlifeflashlight.com...

Saw it advertised on tv. Never needs batteries. Seems very suspicious to me. More free energy.


reply posted on 4-9-2005 @ 10:34 AM by Frosty
Originally posted by YaYo
E = MC squared doesnt answer the question of what energy is made of. It doesnt explain where atoms come from. It doesnt explain what matter is. It doesnt explain anything but a "formula" of how it appears to work and how it appears to behave.

Perpetual might not be the best word. Even if you create a machine that can operate forever, what if it breaks? What if friction starts to wear it down and it falls apart? What I mean when I say perpetual motion is something in theory could work forever not considering if it stayed put together.

I was saying about the computers and radios because you said that people since the 13th century have been trying and failed to create a perpetual machine. And you make a statement that it must not be possible because of that reason. I was just saying I didnt agree with you because someone in the 10th century would look at moderan day technology and might think it impossible. Just pointing out your faulty logic.

[edit on 4-9-2005 by YaYo]


Energy does come from matter. Matter=energy. Energy is a byproduct of work from matter. When an atom is weighed as a whole it ways x amount. When the atom is bombarded by a particle and splits, and the two remaining pieces are weighed, they weigh y amount. Why does the two combined parts weigh different than the whole part? Energy has been released during this proccess, also known as fission.

You should realize that electrical science has been around since the 19th century and that from the above links that many perpetual energy devices have been invented since Faraday. People during Faraday's time could have come up with this concept (in another thread), I'd even wager to say they did.

Anyways my question is how would I go about finding proof of his patents in other countries?


Search the specific countries patent office via search engine.


reply posted on 5-9-2005 @ 04:02 AM by kungfoo
Heh, someone always invokes the second law. It's like Godwin's law it seems (en.wikipedia.org...).

Anyway, the second law is an approximation, and has been broken, rendering it obsolete (as a law, not as a statistical measurement).

You can read about it here: www.newscientist.com...

The team say their experiment provides the first evidence that the second law of thermodynamics is violated at appreciable time and length scales.



reply posted on 7-9-2005 @ 01:45 PM by trinitrotoluene
Originally posted by Indy
You guys will probably appreciate this site...

www.everlifeflashlight.com...

Saw it advertised on tv. Never needs batteries. Seems very suspicious to me. More free energy.


You just don't get it do you?!?!?!?!

THIS IS NOT FREE ENERGY!

Just because the light doesn't use the chemical energy stored in batteries, it does not necessarily mean that the energy comes from nowhere. You are expending energy from your hand and arm by shaking a magnet through a coil. This causes the magnet to pass through a coil of wires. This creates a changing magnetic flux. A changinc magnetic flux through a coil of wires causes the electrons to flow in that coil, causing a current. This current then powers the light.

IT'S NOT FREE ENERGY!

The light will stay as long as the magnet is passing through the coil to make a flux. The magnet keeps passing through the coil as long as you shake the flashlight. Your arm will get tired BECAUSE IT IS CONSUMING ENERGY. You arm will need more energy. It will need fuel.

It will use glucose. It gets the energy from glucose by breaking it down unto two molecules of pyruvate, mixing it with oxaloacetate to make citrate. This is then passed around and broken down bit by bit and reformed into a new molecule of oxaloacetate, which is then mixed with a new molecule of pyruvate that came from a new glucose molecule. The bits that got broken off are used to form a molecule called NADH. The electrons from this are passed through an electron transport chain in your mitochondria to help phosphorylyze adenosine triphosphate, the freakin' molecule that is VERY HIGH IN ENERGY, AND IS BROKEN DOWN TO RELEASE ENERGY IN YOUR BODY WHEN IT NEEDS IT.

So, in the end, you can honestly and scientifically say that your precious perpetual flashlight is actually powered by TABLE SUGAR.

EDITED SECTION:

Go here please
www.pearsoncustom.com...

then here
www.people.virginia.edu...

then here
www.people.virginia.edu...

then here
www.park.edu...

NEXT:


E = MC squared doesnt answer the question of what energy is made of. It doesnt explain where atoms come from. It doesnt explain what matter is. It doesnt explain anything but a "formula" of how it appears to work and how it appears to behave.

Perpetual might not be the best word. Even if you create a machine that can operate forever, what if it breaks? What if friction starts to wear it down and it falls apart? What I mean when I say perpetual motion is something in theory could work forever not considering if it stayed put together.

I was saying about the computers and radios because you said that people since the 13th century have been trying and failed to create a perpetual machine. And you make a statement that it must not be possible because of that reason. I was just saying I didnt agree with you because someone in the 10th century would look at moderan day technology and might think it impossible. Just pointing out your faulty logic.


Friction will not only wear out your machine, but friction actually generates heat, which means that energy is escaping from your machine, which means that will NOT last forever, or even a very long time for that matter.

Here is what physicists will admit: There are certain things that we cannot explain WHY they work, but we absolutely can explain HOW they work.

You can't have perpetual motion because parts of your machine must touch each other, and therefore must have friction. Electricity is very fickle - it is not magical and does not travel only in the direction of your wire. The electricity actually tries to radiate perpendicularly to the direction of your wire. You LOSE energy in wires. It cannot be stopped.

And if some jerk in Europe or wherever invented a machine that puts out more energy than it requires, then why doesn't he rule the world? Why doesn't he end world hunger? If his machine actually creates a positive output of energy, then he would have an infinite fuel source. With an infinite fuel source, it could be converted to a fuel source that plants and lifestock could use. With an infinite source, there would be infinite animals. The mass of all the living things on the earth would increase because there is an infinite fuel source to power them all.

Gimme a freakin' break.

[edit on 7-9-2005 by trinitrotoluene]
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