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WAR: Muslims who want Islamic law told to leave Australia

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posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 01:38 PM
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I'm all for throwing Muslim clerics out of any country where they attempt to impose Islamic law on immigrants or citizens, when it runs into conflict with the host country law. But we'd beeter, also, keep an eye on Christian leaders in this country that are trying to re-shape American law.




posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 01:58 PM
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Oh yes! the christians are trying to take over america!
If some people had their way about christians wouldnt even be at the table.



posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by AlanSmithee
Sharia Law isnt about forcing the religion down everyones throat (Atleast the way they want it in places like Australia, Canada and the United States), its about being able to enforce their laws in their communities


yes it is, there are many incidences where non-muslims living high muslim populations are harrased, threatened, beaten or killed for violating this "law" and these actions are as per that law, or muslims doing "western" things facing the same fate, how can anyone consider honor killing, stoning, cutting off hands, rape, hitting women and many other things demanded by the koran and other religious text that make up these laws, as law?



posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 02:34 PM
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You cannot remove all religious influence from the rule of law. It is after all the morals extracted from organized religion that shaped the law in the first place. America was founded on Christian morals and therefore it's laws heavly reflect this. With that said, I would not move to the Middle East and expect to live as if I were still back in the USofA, that would be ridiculous. They have a different set of morals and values based on their flavor of religion. They speak a different language, have a different common culture, eat different foods, wear different clothes. When a person immigrates to a different country, whether to work or live, you are a quest. As a quest you are expected to behave in a certain manner. It is very simple, if you do not agree with the laws of your host country then you are free to leave. If you choose to not behave according to what is considered to be acceptable behavior then you should be removed. If you are a citizen and you miss behave you are removed from society. The Rule of Law allows order, without order you have chaos. It is very simple, if you cannot come to my country and accept my way of life then don't come. In otherwords, 'I don't swim in your toilet, so don't piss in my pool.'



posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by Yorga
You cannot remove all religious influence from the rule of law.

America was founded on Christian morals and therefore it's laws heavly reflect this.


you sure as hell can too, law is about right and wrong, not religious morality.

no, it was founded by secular deists and unitarians and they based the country on natural law, not any religion morality.

and our laws that were influenced by christianity violate the constitution, they were only enacted due to lack of effective control and the fact churches were the only thing close to control, many have been discarded or are being challenged because education and effective legal control are around now and churches have no say anymore like they used to.



posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 03:21 PM
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I don't know what country you are from but that is absolutely no true in America. This country was founded upon the principles of religious freedom.
The forefathers who designed and built our government and laws were heavily influenced by religion. Religion is embedded in everything about this country, our flag, our Pledge of Alligance, our Anthem, our money. You testify in a court room in the US you swear on a Bible. The President is sworn into office with a Bible. I can go on and on but I don't see the need to do so. If you are so blind that you don't see it then there is no sense in me wasting my time.

[edit on 24-8-2005 by Yorga]



posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 03:45 PM
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OK, the tone and the language in this thread has to improve.



posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by Xar Ke Zeth
To put it frankly; good. These are our government's laws, you live here, and you abide by them.



In a democracy, voters decide the law, right? So they are allowed to change them through legal means, yes?

So, muslims are supposed to leave if they don't like the laws as they are in the new country? Why don't they have the same rights to seek legal change just like anyone else???



posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by AlanSmithee
Sharia Law isnt about forcing the religion down everyones throat (Atleast the way they want it in places like Australia, Canada and the United States), its about being able to enforce their laws in their communities. The problem with this is that then there are basically 2 justice systems, one for muslims religious problems and one for everyone else. That is why governments are reluctant to let them enforce sharias law.

en.wikipedia.org...


In Berlin, it has meant that Churches are not allowed to ring the bells in their bell towers any more. Mohammad disliked bells, and that is why muslims are called to prayer by a crier shouting through a microphone. Shouting the shahaddah IS acceptable; ringing bells is not. So the Christians are forced by local governments not to ring their centuries old bells, while clerics shout prayers in Arabic over a megaphone on their doorsteps. . . . This is one example cited by serbs as to their drive to push all muslims out of their planned "greater serbia."




posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 04:07 PM
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^^^ I dind't know that, unbelievable
In Australian they aren't allowing Xmas to be celebrate in government schools because it isn't PC with muslims and other minority faiths. Absolutely ridiculous.
Why do Christians, have to be PC and no one else does.



posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

Originally posted by Xar Ke Zeth
To put it frankly; good. These are our government's laws, you live here, and you abide by them.



In a democracy, voters decide the law, right? So they are allowed to change them through legal means, yes?

So, muslims are supposed to leave if they don't like the laws as they are in the new country? Why don't they have the same rights to seek legal change just like anyone else???
















Yes and that is the proper way to do things if you are a citizen of that country. But to do this one has to get involved, run for office, find a candidate that you can support and work to get them elected. You
become a joiner and not a separatist or zealot. You become an active member of society and partake of the local culture.



posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 11:54 PM
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This is all very true, however I have to agree with those who say "It is our country, don't like how we run it, get out."

It is like if you are a homeowner and your neighbor comes over your house and begins to trash the place with his insidious ideals and tries to assert himself into your daily life. You hold the right to kick him out of your house, he is a guest in your house, he follows your rules.

When America was formed, the idea of being able to worship your own religion was put into place, it's one of the first few ammendments. This country was founded by protestants and others of the Christian faith. The majority of this country is considered christian, the American public is a god fearing people. And they sure as heck will not allow people from another religion come over here and tarnish their beliefs. I have no problem with muslims worshiping their own faith, quite frankly, I like diversity and different ideals, it helps a country, it makes a country thrive, everything isn't single faced, people are open minded, but when close-minded people, such as extremists, go off and start forcing their ideas on other people, even if it means killing innocent people, the same innocent people who are helping them have their way, that's when it has to stop.

Out of Curiosity, have there been any massive damage caused by radical Christians? As in in these past decades?

It's ok to practice your religion, just don't come here and try to make us practice it too. It's not right.

Shattered OUT...



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 09:30 AM
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In America the majority has always ruled. It is the foundation of our freedom. The biggest majority is European/American of which 90% are Christian. The second largest majority is Latino/American of which 90% are Christian. The third largest majority is African/American of which 90% are Christian. Do you see the pattern here? Like it or not America is a Christian Nation based on Christian morals and beliefs. If someone from another religion moves here then they are free to worship whatever deity they desire, that is a guaranteed right. It is the purpose of our being. But you cannot come here and expect the rest of the country to bow to your religious desire anymore than I can go to Iran and expect them to bow to mine. Come to America and live in peace, worship in peace and work for a better life for you and your family. Do not come here with intent to upset the status quo. We don't want it and we will never allow it. I support the Brit's and the Aussie's in their attempt to quell this problem now once and for all.



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by Yorga
You testify in a court room in the US you swear on a Bible. The President is sworn into office with a Bible.
[edit on 24-8-2005 by Yorga]


You are wrong. People are no longer required to swear on a Bible in court, nor is the president required to swear on a bible when sworn in.


If an atheist has to testify in court, must s/he swear on the Bible?

If an atheist has to testify in court, must s/he swear on the Bible?


A- It's not just atheists who who might have this isue. There are any number of Christians who believe that the Bible forbids them to swear on it or by it. Others also object to the use of the word "swear". So the Bible is now optional in court, and may not even be offered. Additionally, the witness may use an alternate oath involving the word "affirm". The effect is the same: to put the witness under the penalty of law for a lie.
www.answerbag.com...


[edit on 8/25/2005 by shots]



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 11:12 AM
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You are wrong. People are no longer required to swear on a Bible in court, nor is the president required to swear on a bible when sworn in.
[edit on 8/25/2005 by shots]








I am not wrong Shots. I never said that it is required or that one is forced to do so. Quit trying to put words in my mouth. There is a battle going on in NC right now because a Judge refuses to allow Mulsems who take the stand to swear on the Quran. He only allows people to swear on the Bible. The President is not required to take the Oath with his hand on a Bible, but it is accepted protocol and tradition, with the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court giving the Oath. The US Congress has a full time Chaplain. chaplain.house.gov... Wonder what he's there for?
I am tired of people trying to remove religion from America and Americans everyday life. It is now and has always been a very important part of our culture. Remember after the 9/11 attacks the US Senators and Congressmen standing on the steps of the Capitol building singing? They sure as hell weren't singing 'Cum-bi-ya!'



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by rogue1
^^^ I dind't know that, unbelievable
In Australian they aren't allowing Xmas to be celebrate in government schools because it isn't PC with muslims and other minority faiths. Absolutely ridiculous.
Why do Christians, have to be PC and no one else does.


Are you sure about that? Unless it's only a recent development, possibly, but since Christmas nowadays isn't a christian-only holiday, there's no reason why it shouldn't be celebrated.



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by Yorga
I don't know what country you are from but that is absolutely no true in America. This country was founded upon the principles of religious freedom.
The forefathers who designed and built our government and laws were heavily influenced by religion. Religion is embedded in everything about this country, our flag, our Pledge of Alligance, our Anthem, our money. You testify in a court room in the US you swear on a Bible. The President is sworn into office with a Bible. I can go on and on but I don't see the need to do so. If you are so blind that you don't see it then there is no sense in me wasting my time.

[edit on 24-8-2005 by Yorga]



really....

so who said this?

"The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy."

or


"I am a good deal in want of a House Joiner and Bricklayer, (who really understand their profession) and you would do me a favor by purchasing one of each, for me. I would not confine you to Palatines. If they are good workmen, they may be of Asia, Africa, or Europe. They may be Mahometans, Jews or Christian of an Sect, or they may be Atheists."

or


-------

or

“Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, ‘this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.’”

or


"Cabalistic Christianity, which is Catholic Christianity, and which has prevailed for 1,500 years, has received a mortal wound, of which the monster must finally die. Yet so strong is his constitution, that he may endure for centuries before he expires."

or

----

or

"The clergy, by getting themselves established by law, & ingrafted into the machine of government, have been a very formidable engine against the civil and religious rights of man. They are still so in many countries & even in some of these United States. Even in 1783, we doubted the stability of our recent measures for reducing them to the footing of other useful callings. It now appears that our means were effectual."


or many more, hmmm?

enlighten your self.

www.deism.org...

and a big shocker.

"As I have now given you my reasons for believing that the Bible is not the Word of God, that it is a falsehood, I have a right to ask you your reasons for believing the contrary; but I know you can give me none, except that you were educated to believe the Bible; and as the Turks give the same reason for believing the Koran, it is evident that education makes all the difference, and that reason and truth have nothing to do in the case. You believe in the Bible from the accident of birth, and the Turks believe in the Koran from the same accident, and each calls the other infidel. But leaving the prejudice of education out of the case, the unprejudiced truth is, that all are infidels who believe falsely of God, whether they draw their creed from the Bible, or from the Koran, from the Old Testament, or from the New."

and

"It is often said in the Bible that God spake unto Moses, but how do you know that God spake unto Moses? Because, you will say, the Bible says so. The Koran says, that God spake unto Mahomet, do you believe that too? No. Why not? Because, you will say, you do not believe it; and so because you do, and because you don't is all the reason you can give for believing or disbelieving except that you will say that Mahomet was an impostor. And how do you know Moses was not an impostor?"

[edit on 25-8-2005 by namehere]



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by Yorga
I am not wrong Shots. I never said that it is required or that one is forced to do so. Quit trying to put words in my mouth.



I was not trying to put words in your mouth, sorry if it appeared that way.

I simply pointed out that no one and I mean no one is required to swear on a bible any more.

If there is one judge out there that is making people swear on a bible he is out of line and would loose in a court of law of that you can be sure.



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 08:47 AM
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Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by Yorga
I am not wrong Shots. I never said that it is required or that one is forced to do so. Quit trying to put words in my mouth.



I was not trying to put words in your mouth, sorry if it appeared that way.

I simply pointed out that no one and I mean no one is required to swear on a bible any more.

If there is one judge out there that is making people swear on a bible he is out of line and would loose in a court of law of that you can be sure.













www.jihadwatch.org...


Here is a link that supports what I have said. The Judge is fighting the use of the Quran in court. It is NC law that a person shall swear on 'The Holy Scriptures', the debate is about what is considered, 'Holy Scripture'.



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 09:14 AM
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I could take up a lot of space quoting and posting links to prove my point of view as well but don't see the need. It is an ongoing debate in the US as to what should be religions role. I do not feel the need to defend my stance with you. I am one of those accidents that grew up Christian and think this country would be a better place if it returned to the values on which it was founded. I personaly do not care if you agree with that or not. That is your business. Opinions are like a**holes everyone has one. I certainly have mine. That is one of the things that makes the USA the country that it is. Personally I believe the attempted removal of religions
influence from our everyday lifes has been the reason for the steady downfall of our society. You see it on our streets and you see it in our schools. I do not dictate that our Government follow strict religious doctrine, I only pray that the men and women that make the Laws and Policies of this great nation are of sound moral upbringing. Be it Christian, Buddhist , Muslem or any other. Because even though it may be an accident of birth as to what religion one follows, it is an act of faith that
that leads you down the proper path of moral human decency.







 
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