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Fetus feels no pain until third trimester

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posted on Aug, 23 2005 @ 05:32 PM
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A Major blow has been dealt to the Anti-abortion movement today with the release of the results of a study done by University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences. The study states that fetuses have no feeling up until about the last month of the pregnancy.
For ages now one of the main points that anti-abortion groups have used as a weapon to turn peoples views on abortion has been the way that abortions are performed and the extreme pain that such methods would cause a fetus.




CHICAGO - A review of medical evidence has found that fetuses likely don’t feel pain until the final months of pregnancy, a powerful challenge to abortion opponents who hope that discussions about fetal pain will make women think twice about ending pregnancies.





The review by researchers at the University of California, San Francisco comes as advocates are pushing for fetal pain laws aimed at curtailing abortion. Proposed federal legislation would require doctors to provide fetal pain information to women seeking abortions when fetuses are at least 20 weeks old, and to offer women fetal anesthesia at that stage of the pregnancy. A handful of states have enacted similar measures.


Fetuses Feel No Pain

I am seriously surprised by this study. I had beleived that as early as the second trimester there were eeg studies that "proved" that fetuses felt pain.

This will definately cause an uproar with the various groups especially consdiering the legistation that congress is reviewing.




posted on Aug, 23 2005 @ 05:37 PM
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So this study says, but others contradict it.

Timing is everything, and as the Universities are not really hotbeds for morality anymore, there is probably more to the story than meets the eye.

Just because I'm paranoid......



posted on Aug, 23 2005 @ 05:38 PM
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TC I am in total agreement with you on that one. There has to be more to the story that is not being told. Only time will tell though.



posted on Aug, 23 2005 @ 05:42 PM
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Instead of taking the article at face value why don't you purchase the article? Everyone knows both laymen and science reporters distort the actual science behind any type of study due to either Ignorance or Politics. I really think there is a major need for a site about science written by scientists. I know will never happen, but it's nice to dream. lol



posted on Aug, 23 2005 @ 05:49 PM
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I guess we are not going to find out until somebody goes inside the uterus with the fetus to observe if the fetus fills something when he is pinched by the observer.

none of my two children complained of being hurt until they were actually out of the womb because they were hungry, and now they are too old to remember so I will stick with the theory that the soul doesn't enter the body until is born.


Occurs that is just my opinion.



posted on Aug, 23 2005 @ 05:55 PM
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Darned thing about scientists is they usually come with preconceived notions and agendas, too. Funny thing about them is that they are also human. Sucks, I know, but what can we do?



posted on Aug, 23 2005 @ 06:12 PM
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I am sitting on the rail on this one. Although, if a fetus is a living thing (and it is until it dies) it must feel pain. It is only human, it has a soul, and has some developed mental functions, along with bodily functions how could it not feel pain? This one has me stumped.



posted on Aug, 23 2005 @ 06:15 PM
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One thought on this that just came to me.
If the study is now indicating that fetuses can not feel pain until the last month, this would go along way to helping the Por-Abortion groups as they can now use the self-same arguments that were used in the Shiavo case where the medical community stated that she could feel no pain as well.



posted on Aug, 23 2005 @ 06:55 PM
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I noticed that the article used the term "likely" in relation to whether the fetus could not feel pain. "Likely" sounds to me to be an opinion and not proof.



posted on Aug, 23 2005 @ 07:30 PM
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think of the source University of California, San Francisco
the heart of degenetrate liberalism
fetuses are human and must be treated as such



posted on Aug, 23 2005 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by bushfriend
think of the source University of California, San Francisco
the heart of degenetrate liberalism
fetuses are human and must be treated as such


Alrighty then :shk:

UCSF is one of the top research hospitals in the WORLD.

I would want to see the methodology used in the study including sample size, methods used to quantify pain, etc etc before I would comment one way or the other. However, given its reputaiton and the fact they have submitted the research for review, Im sure the methodology is up to snuff.

That being said, I doubt this will change anybodies opinion on the issue.



[edit on 8/23/05 by FredT]



posted on Aug, 23 2005 @ 08:05 PM
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Unless some study is done in which the fetus is harm in a way to observe if it feels pain before the first trimester is no way to find out for sure.

I guess they are going by the degree of fetus development at that time.

So for now until is an actual study that involve a living fetus in the uterus been monitored during the test we have to go with the experts.

Occurs is a matter of believes.



posted on Aug, 23 2005 @ 09:34 PM
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the state of california votes democrat year after year

quote:
CHICAGO - A review of medical evidence has found that fetuses likely don’t feel pain until the final months of pregnancy, a powerful challenge to abortion opponents who hope that discussions about fetal pain will make women think twice about ending pregnancies.

"likely don’t feel pain", keyword here is likley,likely ain't good enough when we are talking about unborn children. Unborn children being harmed should make everyone with morals sick.


Charlie, Oscar, November,Sierra, Echo, Romeo, Victor, Alpha,Tango, Irene, Victor, Echo, --Victor, Irene, Echo, Whiskey, -- Papa, Unicorn, November, Irene, Sierra, Hotel, Echo, Delta



posted on Aug, 23 2005 @ 09:40 PM
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read the rest of the story



Critics angrily disputed the findings and claimed the report is biased.

“They have literally stuck their hands into a hornet’s nest,” said Dr. Kanwaljeet Anand, a fetal pain researcher at the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, who believes fetuses as young as 20 weeks old feel pain. “This is going to inflame a lot of scientists who are very, very concerned and are far more knowledgeable in this area than the authors appear to be. This is not the last word — definitely not.”

www.msnbc.msn.com...

first part is listed above on this thread



posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 08:15 AM
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Sorry but the doctor you mention Bushfriend is nothing more than a tools use by the "Christian Coalition" founded by Pat Robertson to push a court amendment legislation to by Senator Sam Brownback, (R-KS) that "fetuses feel pain"

This another anti-abortion propaganda against woman "choice" this the entire quote on that.



Next week in the U.S. Senate, Senator Sam Brownback, (R-KS); will be introducing "Unborn Child Pain Awareness" legislation. Dr. Kanwaljeet Anand, a professor of pediatrics at the University of Arkansas and a member of the American Pain Society, last week in federal court in Lincoln, Nebraska, testified that unborn babies can feel "severe" pain at 20 weeks gestation and that a "partial birth" abortion would be "extremely painful" for the unborn child, according to a report in the "Omaha World-Herald" on April 6, 2004. The American public supports the Brownback legislation in overwhelming numbers. In an April 15-17 Zogby poll, 77% of the American people agree with the following statement/question (vs. only 16% who said no): "There is growing consensus among scientists that human fetuses can feel pain after 20 weeks in the womb. Do you favor or oppose laws requiring that women who are 20 weeks or more along in their pregnancy be given information about fetal pain before having an abortion?" The Congress needs to vote on this important bill and send it to the President for his signature before it adjourns this year.


www.cc.org...

The only prof this doctor has is that newborn babies experience pain when they are born.

So he concluded that "Fetuses" most feel pain too.

How political and bias can be? you decided, is a matter of what you want to believe depending of you "moral and righteous views"



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
so I will stick with the theory that the soul doesn't enter the body until is born.


Occurs that is just my opinion.


Many people can recall at least some time en utero.



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by Mahree
I noticed that the article used the term "likely" in relation to whether the fetus could not feel pain. "Likely" sounds to me to be an opinion and not proof.


Thank you Mahree, i'm not a conservative by any stretch of the imagination but, if someone is going to light the fuse on the abortion issue with a scientific study, starting it with "likely" just blows it's credibility to me.



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 11:08 PM
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So what if the fetus doesn't feel pain?

It's not legal or morally acceptable to kill an adult in a painless fashion, is it? Or have I been refraining from smothering people with pillows for no reason at all...

[edit on 25-8-2005 by The Parallelogram]



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 08:43 AM
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Women don't have the right to murder, Marg. An immoral government has given an immoral and extremely hard hearted society that privilege. Since words mean things, let us get the terminology correct.

Sounds to me like you are playing tag with which doctor you pick and which you won't. And, because the man has morals, understands right from wrong and righteous from digustingly horrible and selfish, does not make him a "tool". Fact of the matter is that we've seen film of a fetus (Latin for unborn baby, you realize) writhing in pain from the abortion procedure at a lot younger age than the last month of pregnancy. This is a non-issue, this info is warped, perverted and so blatantly sick that I can't believe you'd try and defend it.
We've become such a degenerated society that we'll grab onto the most ridiculous lie and accept it as truth if it supports our selfish desires.


[edit on 26-8-2005 by Thomas Crowne]



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 09:18 AM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Women don't have the right to murder, Marg. An immoral government has given an immoral and extremely hard hearted society that privilege. Since words mean things, let us get the terminology correct.



Depending on our moralistic views of "murder" what you tag it on is easier to talk about it with self righteouness might.

But In my case I advocate for women rights to chose and as a woman in my "moralistic" views and self righteousness a woman had the right to make choices about her body and internal parts and is not the right for politicians, religious groups and self proclaim moralistic experts to decided.

With this said and done you can hate me respect me or bash me but this are my views and has been all my life I don't tell you what to do with your private parts and I expect nobody to condemn me for my views and choices I do with mine.


All this thread is about scientific experts expresing what they had found out about their research and how one side rebute the other one.

Is all about pro and anti abortion and depending what side you are on that is how is manipulated to fit ones agenda.

Plain and simple.



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