Language being a creation or not?

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posted on Aug, 31 2003 @ 09:55 PM
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I was not to sure where to post this question, so i just assumed this was the most suitable forum to post.
Be happy to move to its proper forum mods.

This is something that i came across during on my my earlier threads, "Mans Greatest Creation"
I forgot who and not that it matters, but someone had stated that Language was mans greatest creation.

Now my question is wether or not, its a plausible statement.

I for one would like to hear everyones opinion before forming my own.
Deep




posted on Aug, 31 2003 @ 09:58 PM
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Absolutely, and I actually agree, that it is our greatest creation... While communication in general wasn't created by us...our language (such as the one I'm typing in), certainly was...and stands as our greatest achievement to date... For without it...we wouldn't be capable of the other feats mentioned....



posted on Aug, 31 2003 @ 10:00 PM
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Language (a specific codified form of generating sounds and non-verbal symbols in order to communicate with others) is not the creation of man at all, in my opinion.

Many species have unique, highly developed languages, and we did not teach them with our own invention.



posted on Aug, 31 2003 @ 10:03 PM
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hmmm this subject intrigues me. language was created by us. but didnt god speak to adam. i dont remember there being a language but he spoke to him and somehow adam understood. there had to be some sort of common understanding there.



posted on Aug, 31 2003 @ 10:05 PM
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MA there is a difference between sounds and language. a dogs barks means nothing to another dog. its just like a yell or something.



posted on Aug, 31 2003 @ 10:09 PM
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I dont think religion has any factor in this question.
I understand your dillema though, but i still dont think that religion can answer this question.

Language is something thats evolved and continues to evolve throughout the ages.

Look at the dictionary, its always changing.
The english language is always changing aswell, new words come about and some of the old are discarded.

Some animals display the ability to communicate with in thier herds, prides, etc.
They dont speak the way humans do, but some use sonar, whines, and movements of thier bodys.
Wether or not those are considered "Language" im not to sure though.
Deep
Ps......I cant seem to reply to this post anymore, everytime I click reply, it says
"thank you for your reply, your post has been submitted" something on those terms.
This has happened to me before too, its like I cant reply more than twice, is this some sort of restriction?
Deep

[Edited on 1-9-2003 by ZeroDeep]



posted on Aug, 31 2003 @ 10:12 PM
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A bee's dance
A bird's call
A dolphin's song
A monkey's highly sophisticated and systematic squeals, guttural sounds and gestures

A "secret society member's" sign...

All languages to me. This is semantic.



posted on Aug, 31 2003 @ 10:38 PM
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Animals do speak.
It's not English, or any other human language, but they do speak.
Common house pets, dogs and cats, each have their own way of communicating with each other and with us. By paying attention to them, you can learn what they're "saying" to you. After all, we expect them to learn our language, don't we?

Dog-language is a little easier, as they're more naturally social creatures. There are specific sounds they make to indicate happiness, fear, comfort, anger, hunger, etc and each has its own shades of meaning when you couple it with their body language. For example, after being introduced to a new dog, they'll make a particular "huffing" sound to indicate that everything's cool. It sounds like a contented "pant" but it's just a little bit different...meaning "I'm okay with hanging out with you, but I'm still keeping my eye on things."

Cats have a language too.
I just got a kitten a few weeks ago. I talk to her in equal parts English and Cat. It's more effective to tell an animal in their own language that you're displeased with them (i.e. when Elvis bites me too hard in play) then with shouting in English. Kittens have a specific sound for "you're playing too rough and that hurts!" When Elvis hears that from me, I get an apology mew and (the body language thing) licks to wherever she bit me.

In my mind, therefore, language isn't a creation. It's a natural occurence that isn't just reserved for homo sapiens.


-B.


[Edited on 1-9-2003 by Banshee]



posted on Aug, 31 2003 @ 10:45 PM
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MA to me those sound more like instinct things than an actual language. a baby cries when he wants something but that aint a language is it? i dont consider it one.



posted on Aug, 31 2003 @ 10:54 PM
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Sorry about my new clothes. They're embarrassing, I can't do much about my wardrobe for now. I'll see about some fashion shopping at the end of the month....

hmmm

I recommend 'The Language Instinct' - Stephen Pinker. it supports precisely what you're saying AND what I'm saying.

In my opinion, language was in no way given uniquely by God to man as his pet. It has evolved just as instinctually in man as language has in every other species with this sophisticated form.

I know where you are coming from, but it's preferable to me to not put homo sapiens above every other species. Our species is more destructive to the planet than any other. Fortunately, language wasn't one of its destructive 'inventions'.



posted on Aug, 31 2003 @ 11:01 PM
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yes but we are almost the only animals that reason. and to restate my point that i said earlier. what bout god didnt he speak to adam? that had to be in some language.



posted on Aug, 31 2003 @ 11:01 PM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
Sorry about my new clothes. They're embarrassing, I can't do much about my wardrobe for now. I'll see about some fashion shopping at the end of the month....


Don't apologize.
They suit you.


-B.



posted on Aug, 31 2003 @ 11:22 PM
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ok....then.....
Language BEYOND anything that occurs in nature is our greatest invention. Like writing for example. Tell me of an animal that uses pictograms to display meaning. Or the alphabet; the use of combinations of pictograms to determine a greater variety of meaning. So, I say, written language is, by far, our best invention.

The theory on how bees move in figure eights, circles and other geometric shapes could be considered writing, but writing, as shown by the phrase "written in stone", has to last a long time. Writing is recorded language.

[Edited on 1-9-2003 by TheManWithThePlan]



posted on Sep, 1 2003 @ 02:05 PM
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Language i dont think its mans greatest creation but it is a part of it its all the forms of communication t.v music the internet all communicate things and that is how we have grown so fast.



posted on Sep, 1 2003 @ 02:23 PM
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If you were a caveman,no oral language developed yet,and you saw another caveman getting too close to your cave and wanted him to leave,but you had no language yet...,so you bounced a rock off of his head to get your point across,wouldn't that in essence be a form of language to communicate your meaning to the other caveman?.Thud=go away from here!.
Language is an evolved form of expression,like guns are an evolved form of throwing rocks.....
This language thing has always intrigued me,it is just a form of conditioning which allows people to communicate thoughts between themselves without getting a bump on their head.
Did you ever really think about words?,especially when you are listening to someone speak a foreign tongue that you are unfamiliar with,it reverts right back to hand signals ,and sometimes throwing rocks.
Study a legal dictionary and it becomes obvious that language is a form of warfare.


zed

posted on Sep, 1 2003 @ 10:17 PM
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If you believe in god so much then this becomes a moot point. When god created man he created man as a whole. There were no cavemen.

On the other hand, for those of us who believe in evolution, language was not created but rather it developed. All animals communicate in one way or another. Humans are the only animals whose language has a complex syntactical and symantic aspect to it.

As for reasoning, I saw something on Discovery (I think) about research that showed evidence of reasoning within some ape comunities. Something about alpha-males using their strength with discretion. If they beat up the others for food then there wouldn't be anyone to groom them later.





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