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Human Cloning .. For or Against?

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posted on Aug, 22 2005 @ 12:22 PM
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In his 1950 science fiction novel, 'I,Robot', Issac Asimov presented the Three Laws of Robotics: "1.A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm. 2.A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law. 3.A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law"

The irrational fears people express today about cloning parllel those surrounding robotics half a century ago. So i would like to propose 'Three Laws of Cloning' that also clarify three misunderstandings: 1.A human clone is a human being no less unique in his or her personhood than an identical twin. 2.A human clone has all the rights and privileges that accompany this legal and moral status. 3.A human clone is to be accorded the dignity and respect due to any member of our species.

Although such simplifications risk erasing the rich nuances found in ethical debates over pioneering research, they do aid in attenuating risible fear often associated with such advances. It appears that the Realians have not succeeded in Xeroxing themselves, but it is clear that someone, somewhere, sometime soon is going to generate a human clone. And once one team has succeeded, clones from other teams would follow!!

If cloning produces genetic monstosities that render it impractical as another form of fertility enhancement, then it will not be necessary to ban it, because no one will use it. If cloning does work,however, there is no reason to forbid it, because the three common reasons given for implementing restrictions are 'myths'. I call them the Identical Personhood Myth, the Playing God Myth, and the Human Rights and Dignity Myth.

The Identical Personhood Myth is well represented by activist Jeremy Rifkin: "It's a horrendous crime to make a Xerox of someone. You're putting a human into a genetic straitjacket." ... BALONEY. He and fellow cloning critics have the argument bass awkward. As environmental determinist, they should be arguing: "Clone all you like - you'll never produce another you, because environment matters as much as heredity." The best scientific evidence to date indicates that roughly half the variance among us is accounted for by genetics and the rest by environment.It is impossible to duplicate the near-infinite number of permutations that come into play during the development of each individual, so cloning is no threat to unique personhood.

The Playing God Myth has numerous promoters, amonth the latest being Stanley M. Hauerwas, a professor of theological ethics at Duke University: "The very attempt to clone a human being is evil. The assumption that we must do what we can do is fuelled by the Promethean desire to be our own creators." In support of this myth he is not alone. A 1997 Time/CNN poll revealed that 74 percent of 1,005 Americans answered, "Yes" to the question "Is it against God's will to clone human being?"... BALDERDASH. Cloning may seem to be "playing God" only because it is unfamiliar. Consider earlier examples of once "God-like" fertility technologies that are now cheerfully embraced because we have become accustomed to them, such as in vitro-fertilization and embryo transfer.

The Human Rights and Dignity Myth is embodied in the Roman Catholic Church's offical statement against cloning, based on the belief that it denies the "the diginity of human procreation and of the conjugal union," as well as in a Sunni Muslim cleric's demand that "science must be regulated by firm laws to preserve humanity and its diginity.".... BUNKUM. Clones will be more alike than twins raised in separate environments, and one is suggesting that twins do not have rights or dignity or that they should be banned.

Instead of restiricting or preventing the technology, I propose that we adopt the Three Laws of Cloning principle of which are already incorporated in the laws and languages of the U.S. Constitution, and allow science to run its course. The soul of science is found in courageous thought and creative experiment, not in restrictive fear and prohibitions. For science to progress, it must be given the opportunity to suceed or fail. Let's run the cloning experiment and see what happens.




posted on Aug, 22 2005 @ 12:48 PM
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The earth is not short on people.

I have yeat to hear a good reason TO clone. Without things like organ harvesting, experimentation, and other unethical things, I've never heard one good reason we need to clone people when we already have over 6 billion.



posted on Aug, 22 2005 @ 12:51 PM
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I've never heard one good reason we need to clone people when we already have over 6 billion.

Simple to create a superrace


lost in the midwest



posted on Aug, 22 2005 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by lost in the midwest
Simple to create a superrace



Thats what i'm saying. There is no good reason to do it! The only reasons to clone humans i ever heard of basicly boiled down to wanting something to treat as if it was inhuman be it used for experiments or used as soldiers/labor.

I'd love to hear one good reason to clone humans.



posted on Aug, 22 2005 @ 01:19 PM
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Yea but if we had a milion clones to fight war for us war would be a game. I thinking cloning livestock is ok, I thnink cloning humans will bring the world to its knees. If cloning became something average I could do what the kid in the disney movie does. Clone me.. plain in simple its a dumb idea except maybe for organs and stuff i think that makes sense... Clone me for donations.. I dont think theres anything wrong with that clones wouldnt be humans... So livestck cloning-
human cloning for donors-
Human cloning for fun-



posted on Aug, 22 2005 @ 01:28 PM
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I agree, to many people here already. We don't need more. They only way I could see cloning for reason other then organ harvesting is to repopluate the world after something like a deadly disease outbreak or something else that would wipe-out most of humanity.

I don't think people should clone others to just kill them and harvest their organs either. People should either find a way to just clone the organ or forget about it.

[edit on 8/22/2005 by hatchedcross]



posted on Aug, 22 2005 @ 01:44 PM
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We don't need to clone people for organs. We have made great head way with transgenic animals here at the Univeristy of Missouri. Some day the heart transplanted in to a person will come from a pig or some other animal.


lost in the midwest


BZ

posted on Aug, 22 2005 @ 01:45 PM
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dont agree on making humanoid people,but if you could create organs that would help people who needed them and wont need a lifetime of drugs just incase their body rejects them,would be very good.



posted on Aug, 22 2005 @ 01:52 PM
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I don't see any reason to clone humans at this point nor have heard any good arguements to date. I suppose the military would argue we need more troops so perhaps they could use a few good clones.



posted on Aug, 22 2005 @ 01:57 PM
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I can be the add now. "Army of Clone"

lost is the midwest:


BZ

posted on Aug, 22 2005 @ 01:59 PM
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they could create clones that were stronger,faster,need less food/water

withstand heat and pain better also be able to hold their breath underwater longer.

and the governments would be their owners so could expend as many as they liked


not good



posted on Aug, 22 2005 @ 02:03 PM
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they could create clones that were stronger,faster,need less food/water

You forgot dumber, If I was stronger, faster and etc. It wouldn't take me long to figure out That I could take over and run the place.


lost in the midwest


[edit on 22-8-2005 by lost in the midwest]



posted on Aug, 22 2005 @ 04:01 PM
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Good arguments, but I'm with Quest on this one. We do not have a shortage of people yet. I would like the Earths Population to be under 10 Billion in 50 years not approaching 12 or 13 billion(or whatever number)

As for the comment about organ harvesting, we don't need people or even an animal to do that, eventally they will be Vat Grown as Nano-Biotechnology progresses. Cloning of tissue I am all for, but not whole people yet. I cannot see the benefit's at all of cloning people.



posted on Aug, 23 2005 @ 11:11 AM
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Well..not exactly considering about mass human cloning (that depends on a lot of cases). Here mainly talking about 'the experiment' or try out of such an experiment.. would you stand for it or not?
Eventually i think it will done as science and technology is advancing at a fast rate and so they would try to achieve this too. Maybe in secret if people are against it. But i think its going to be tried or being tried right now.. So if something like this is going on i prefer it being tried out with public knowledge so that they can make an end decision. So instead of provoking them to do it under the wraps..i think if peoples fear and objections are cleared out then they might have a certain intrest towards it and allow its conduct which (cloning) hopefully will be used for the good and solve worldly problems.
"For instance it is claimed that success in this field will be a great boon for those childless couples who have lost hope in acquiring children of their own and that cloning may even succeed for those couples who have failed to acquire children through artificial insemination"

"If human cloning were to undergo technological advances, the study of health would also drastically improve. Cloning would provide better research capabilities for finding cures to many present-day diseases"

"The continuation of human cloning and its related actions could drastically increase our scientific knowledge of genetics and lead us to new discoveries concerning the human body and related issues"

Yes there goes a lot of disadvantages to it also like that of the super-race.Guess these all depend on human intentions in the end. Still now there arises another question ..use it if possible for the good or still even if its for the good ban it and find different means?!



posted on Aug, 23 2005 @ 01:16 PM
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I agree with having human clones.

Why, Well since one of my friends is in a wheel chair I would love to see the day that they help replace what nerves have been damaged.

Or for the day we can clone human, lungs, hearts, livers, and eyes!

What greatness that would be for all the people on waiting lists for organs.

Cloneing isn't just the human factor it is also can be manipulated for organ growth.

Another issue people have is " we have to many people already on earth."

Who said anything about earth. Imagine Cloning our human race so we can populate other planets, Explore the universe and know what is really out there.

I think there was a speacil on Discovery. When asked by the host of the show what would cloned people look like if they were on Mars for a change. The scientist said " well, we could make a cloned human with tougher skin for survival in the harsher condistion on Mars. Kind of a lizard or exoskeleton."

Truely amazing.

I can't wait to see what happens in the next 5 to 10 years with this.



posted on Aug, 23 2005 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by texmiller
The scientist said " well, we could make a cloned human with tougher skin for survival in the harsher condistion on Mars. Kind of a lizard or exoskeleton."


Well, I didn't know what to quote first, but this one is the most pro to me. It's not about making twins at all, because, as you already stated (grey mysterio), clones will never be the same person as the original because of different circumstances of growing up and being influenced by the environment. BTW congrats, you seem to be somebody who is actually able to think beyond mainstream (a lot of people on ATS claim to be but are not). Of course there are some very good reasons to do it today, and there are a lot of bad reasons - the dreams of immortality of powerful (or just rich) people, armies of brainwashed (or just straight educated) clones and so on. But I think you already considered that, and you also know that everything that's possible will probably be done. I think you're right, it's just a question of time. (though I don't think 5 to 10 years will do).
But some people are more ahead of us and think about the future as the development of the human race as a species to explore the universe, not only to battle against alien races or similar stupid things but expand the sphere of human life and experiences. Though this thought is not very common today, I always liked it and for me it's the most credible reason to clone and even modify human beings. As of today it seems like we move backwards in time, we don't think about possible improvements of humanity, because we have to face a lot of animal (or even worse) behaviour today. But I just hope we overcome this to think about not only how we survive but how to get more - or superior - knowledge of life, the universe and everything



posted on Aug, 23 2005 @ 11:06 PM
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People are confusing cloning with other things.

Cloning is the genetic duplication of a person. It will not cure diseases, make organs, or make superhumans.

Super humans and cures are genetic modification.

Vat grown organs are just that, partial cloning at best.



posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 02:27 PM
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Surely though, clones of humans could be used for testing things like new drugs... I know its sounds perverse, but a possibility?



posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 08:48 PM
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I have a question for you all...and before you discard this question as rubbish, I think it merits a little bit of your time to think about it before you answer. Sound reasonable? Okay let's cut to the chase.

"How do you know if whether or not YOU haven't already been cloned?"

That's a fair enough question.

Think about this now, and I am sure that all of us over the course of our lives have been in situations that have required medical attention in one form or another, and since -- from my understanding -- it only requires a single cell to clone someone or something -- what do the hospitals, clinics and other miscellaneous medical facilities -- not to mention the numerous blood and plasma banks -- do with YOUR blood when they are done testing it for this thing or that thing or whatever?

Has anyone PHYSICALLY been present to watch what happens to the numerous blood "samples" that are taken every day of every year when the testing is finished?

Hey, like I said, I could be wrong, but stranger things have happened in this world. Think about it before you discard my question as "ribbish."

Have a nice night.

DR_Who



posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by Quest
The earth is not short on people.

I have yeat to hear a good reason TO clone. Without things like organ harvesting, experimentation, and other unethical things, I've never heard one good reason we need to clone people when we already have over 6 billion.


Most people against cloning cannot have their minds changed because they feel religious or moraly object to it on some grounds.

My reason is simple.

I want them to clone me without a brain (grow me in a dish) and develope technology that will allow me to transfer to a younger self untill I tire of living.

That way no Brain = no (soul) if you believe in that kinda thing.

Or develope a way to just transfer my memories and thoughts into a new me.

Either way a good reason for cloning is to extend human life. Even if you or others would prefer to die natural and meet your maker.

I'll hang here till (they) come back
/.

X




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