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What are the chivalric orders of freemasonry?

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posted on Aug, 21 2005 @ 06:55 AM
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I read that the 7th (Illuminatus Major) and 8th degree (Illuminatus Dirigen) of the Illuminati is based on the “Ecossais (Scottish) Grade of Masonic Chivalry.”

Can anyone enlightened me as too what that is?
I hope the question is not too general or confusing, thanks.




posted on Aug, 21 2005 @ 11:20 PM
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Hmm, not a single reply, I will attempt to be clearer.

I want to know what the chivalric orders are. My first thought were the knights degree in the York rite, (Order of Knights Templar and Order of Knights of Malta). But then it says it’s the Scottish grade. So I have to look at the Scottish Rite, unfortunately when Weishaupt and Knigge design the degrees (end of 18th century) the pre-Pike Scottish Rite were very different, hence my confusion. Were the Scottish rite similar to the York rite? Wich of the chivalric orders existed at the time?

I’m looking for a student of Freemason history to enlightened me, anyone?



posted on Aug, 21 2005 @ 11:39 PM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
Hmm, not a single reply, I will attempt to be clearer.

I want to know what the chivalric orders are. My first thought were the knights degree in the York rite, (Order of Knights Templar and Order of Knights of Malta). But then it says it’s the Scottish grade. So I have to look at the Scottish Rite, unfortunately when Weishaupt and Knigge design the degrees (end of 18th century) the pre-Pike Scottish Rite were very different, hence my confusion. Were the Scottish rite similar to the York rite? Wich of the chivalric orders existed at the time?

I’m looking for a student of Freemason history to enlightened me, anyone?


The chivalric DEGREES are masonic degrees which are based on chivalric history. The Knights Templar degrees in the York Rite are a good example, but the Scottish Rite contains several chivalric degrees as well, including the 18th (knight of rose croix), 29th (knight of st. andrew) and 30th (knight kadosh), to name a few.

However, the Scottish Rite was not formed until the early 1800s, from many degrees and rites which had existed and been practiced spurriously throughout France. The Bavarian Illuminati was disbanded in the late 1700s, which signifies, to me, that the chivalric orders upon which the Illuminati's grades were based might have been some of these rites which later became part of the Scottish Rite.



posted on Aug, 22 2005 @ 07:40 AM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

I want to know what the chivalric orders are.


They are the Order of the Red Cross, the Order of Malta, and the Order of the Temple. These Orders are conferred in Commanderies of Knights Templar in the York Rite. The Scottish Rite possesses Chivalric Degrees, but not Orders. Only in the York Rite will you find the Orders.


So I have to look at the Scottish Rite, unfortunately when Weishaupt and Knigge design the degrees (end of 18th century) the pre-Pike Scottish Rite were very different, hence my confusion. Were the Scottish rite similar to the York rite? Wich of the chivalric orders existed at the time?


The Order of the Temple existed, and was conferred in Blue Lodges at that time. This was before the union, and the chivalric orders were conferred only in Lodges of Antient York Masons (as was the Royal Arch Degree).

The Illuminati degree of Scottish Knight was probably closely related to the degree of Scottish Knight in the French Rite of Perfection; indeed, Weishaupt probably plagiarized it from there, as he had done the Blue Lodge degrees.



posted on Aug, 22 2005 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk
which signifies, to me, that the chivalric orders upon which the Illuminati's grades were based might have been some of these rites which later became part of the Scottish Rite.

Is there evidence that Ramsay researched the Illuminati and would model the scottish degrees upon their rites? I had thought that Ramsay's employer would be somewhat anti-illuminati, no?



posted on Aug, 22 2005 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by sebatwerk
which signifies, to me, that the chivalric orders upon which the Illuminati's grades were based might have been some of these rites which later became part of the Scottish Rite.

Is there evidence that Ramsay researched the Illuminati and would model the scottish degrees upon their rites? I had thought that Ramsay's employer would be somewhat anti-illuminati, no?


Considering the amount of things that the Illuminati copied from Freemasonry, I highly doubt that it would have gone the other way. The Illuminati was HIGHLY unoriginal and did not have much to offer that wasn't already offered by freemasonry at the time.

The Scottish Rite was formed out of what was known as the Rite of Perfection, as well as several other rites in France and other parts of Europe. There was already MORE than enough there to take and to use as a foundation for the new Scottish Rite degrees, and this is generally how the different rites of modern Freemasonry have evolved.

Considering the Bavarian Illuminati's size, length of existance, influence and originality, I would say the chances are slim that any part of Freemasonry might have taken from it.



posted on Aug, 22 2005 @ 11:41 PM
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At the time (late 1700’s) they were more than 1400 degrees in total floating around Europe!



The majority of all these Higher Degrees, especially those created during the Age of Enlightenment, are based on the virtues of Chivalry, and on legend like the link between Freemasons and Knights Templar. Obviously high sounding titles appealed to the elitist French Masonry. They are known as "degrés ou Grades Ecossais" although they have nothing to do with Scotland. They have been introduced by Ramsay who claimed that Freemasonry started as a chivalric Order before moving from France to Scotland in the fourteenth century, to reappear again in 1717. Initially they were independent of each other, but the Grand Lodge of France put some order into them in 1760.

…As in France they included the ideals of chivalry; as an example we can mention the Rite of Strict Observance created by Baron von Hund in 1755. Those exotic rites attracted speculative philosophers, occult adventurers like Joseph Balsamo known as Count Cagliostro, and others initiated quasi-Masonic secrets political societies such as the "Order of the Illuminati" in Bavaria.


emphasis my own, source

It seems “grade Ecossais” had nothing to do with Scotland after all. So Weishaupt could have based his Scot degrees on a multitude of degrees. If I knew which one Knigge had been initiated into it would give me more clues. But as ML points out its probably taken from the Rite of Stick Observance.

I aggree with Seb, that the Illuminati degrees were not very original, out of the 12 degrees, 3 were taken from the Blue Lodge degrees, 2 from Scottish degrees and 2 were not even completed.

Thanks for replying guys; I was sure one of the Masonic scholars could answer this.


[edit on 22-8-2005 by ConspiracyNut23]



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