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Vatican and Evil

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posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 01:33 PM
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Why on a lot of the threads do people suggest that the vatican is something to do with the NWO, or the anti christ or something like that?

I dont understand why it is suggested that it is, in a way, evil.

Could someone please explain this to me.




posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 01:40 PM
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I cannot say I have really understood the connection either. I do think that any group/entity that appears to have international power seems to be part of the NWO. The Vatican is more than a religious location, it is a business and one that like most corporations, has its share of wrong doings and scandals. But also like many in power, the Vatican can get away with more than the average person thus believers in the NWO will associate power like that as evil. Personally, I just think the Vatican is bad business that needs some downsizing and restructure. Like many things that grow to big for their britches, they have seemed to lose sight with their goals.



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 04:12 PM
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I believe the book "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" by Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, and Henry Lincoln does an excellent job of explaining the conspiracy theory behind the NWO. This particular theory was derived from historical records that apparently indicate that the Vatican is in cahoots with the Knights Templar/Freemasons/Prieure de Sion (Illuminati) to empower Jesus' descendent, or blood heir, into a priest-king (antichrist) that will control a one world government and religion.

Considering the current pope is rumored to be trying to unify all world religions into one gives further credence to the theory outlined in the book.
Other threads on this board contend that the next pope (the one after this one dies) is prophesied to be the one that hustles in the Antichrist or is the Antichrist.
Furthermore, the European Union is well on its way to unifying the world under one government.

Supposedly this new priest-king is directly descended from Jesus - a true blood heir. The Illuminati supposedly have some kind of infallible proof that the bloodline of Jesus Christ is still alive and thriving. They intend to unveil this evidence in order to establish the heir's claim to the throne - as King of Jerusalem or the World?
Supposedly, Jesus' heir will rule with the Illuminati as his "parliament" which in essence will comprise the NWO.

I highly recommend the book - it's fascinating to say the least.

The Bible also seems to collaborate on this theory as noted below:

Mathew 24:15
15 When therefore ye shall see the abomination of desolation, which is spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in [what is a] holy place, (he that reads let him understand,) 16 then let those who are in Judaea flee to the mountains; 17 let not him that is on the house come down to take the things out of his house; 18 and let not him that is in the field turn back to take his garment. 19 But woe to those that are with child, and those that give suck in those days. 20 But pray that your flight may not be in winter time nor on sabbath: 21 for then shall there be great tribulation, such as has not been from [the] beginning of [the] world until now, nor ever shall be; 22 and if those days had not been cut short, no flesh had been saved; but on account of the elect those days shall be cut short. 23 Then if any one say to you, Behold, here is the Christ, or here, believe [it] not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall give great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 Behold, I have told you beforehand. 26 If therefore they say to you, Behold, he is in the desert, go not forth; behold, [he is] in the inner chambers, do not believe [it]. 27 For as the lightning goes forth from the east and shines to the west, so shall be the coming of the Son of man.


[edit on 20-8-2005 by checkers]



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 08:31 PM
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Though I admit to having been fascinatinated with HBHG and though I cannot forgive the Catholic Church for the blood on their hands - centuries of it - I cannot connect the Church with the NWO. I do not believe the Illumanti continues to this day and I'm not convinced that they ever wielded the kind of power with which they are credited. Ditto, the Freemasons though, I admit that the Freemasons probably were much more powerful a couple of hundred years, ago.

I mean, the Vatican/Catholic Church still holds vast resources that are in direct opposition to the teachings of the Jesus of the NT (of whom I do not believe in as the Messiah nor do I believe in his divinity).

I credit the Roman church with one of the world's greatest marketing campaigns - to the point of spawning another incredible marketing campaign (the Protestants) that even disavows the obvious parentage.

Throughout the history of the western world, the "sell job" that the RCC has done on the "Jesus brand" is nothing short of phenomenal! Who can doubt it? Their influence pervades virtually all of the world's great powers!

Are they evil? No. I don't think so. Just extremely successful. Probably beyond their wildest imaginings.



posted on Aug, 21 2005 @ 10:27 AM
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I think the reason the Vatican is often associated with the NWO is because it has a lot of power. If a Pope tells his people a particular thing is evil (or good), says that he doesn't approve of a particular political candidate, or something like that, there are about a billion people that will take what he has to say seriously. That makes some people rather nervous.

Some people also think that the Vatican has all sorts of secret manuscripts hidden away in their vaults, things that for whatever reason they don't want the public to see.

I don't agree that the Vatican is part of the NWO, but I can kind of see how some people might think it is. I'm not Catholic, but I think that, on the whole, the Vatican has pretty good intentions for people, certainly more so than nearly any other group I've seen associated with NWO.



posted on Aug, 23 2005 @ 09:40 AM
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This may shed some light on the subject

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Aug, 23 2005 @ 11:49 AM
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The NWO panic/hysteria tends to be something from christian funamentalists and non-fundamentalists who are strongly anti-federalists, and also strong anti-communists. When its comming from christian fundamentalists, it gets tied up with anti-catholicism, wherein the papacy is seen as a perversion of christianity, and indeed catholics aren't even considered as christians by many 'fundamentalists'. I think that this is where the NWO-Vatican link comes in, from fundamentalists who already view the vatican as satanic-evil.

For example, here are some 'chick tracts' trying to show that catholics aren't christians and are doomed to devastation in the lake of fire:

www.chick.com...

ANd these extended tracts accuse the church of being evil, setting up the nazis and the holocaust, and setting up the communists, and creating islam to help it destroy christianity. Not a far step for fundamentalists to move from that to 'they're also the NWO".

Actually I am surprised that there isn't a chick tract on the NWO.



Originally posted by checkers
into a priest-king (antichrist) that will control a one world government and religion.

Excepting of course that holy blood holy grail is based upon extremely poor research and that the writers completely fell for a hoax perpetrated by a guy that claimed ot be king of france and descendant of jesus.


Considering the current pope is rumored to be trying to unify all world religions into one

The pope is doing no such thing.



gives further credence to the theory outlined in the book.

That 'theory' is completely baseless and the so called priory is an admited fraud.


Furthermore, the European Union is well on its way to unifying the world under one government.

The EU is doing no such thing. The purview of the EU is europe, not the globe, and its not even establishing a super-government there. The national, provincial, and even local governments are still in full effect.


Supposedly this new priest-king is directly descended from Jesus - a true blood heir.

I don't think that there is a single lineage that can be said to be preserved from 2,000 years ago, let alone that of a relatively unknown jewish rebel with no marriage records.


23spy
In 1997, Rome prosecutors implicated a member of the Sicilian Mafia, Pippo Calò, in Calvi's murder

The mafia and the vatican are at odds. Mafioso used to even 'burn a saint' (picture or statuette) to demonstrate that they didn't answer to the church anymore, but rather the brotherhood. So whats this got to do with the vatican-nwo idea??



posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
Actually I am surprised that there isn't a chick tract on the NWO.


Ya' got me! I thought there was. But there wasn't.
www.chick.com...
Hey .. give the freak some time. I'm sure he'll come
up with some.



posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan


23spy
In 1997, Rome prosecutors implicated a member of the Sicilian Mafia, Pippo Calò, in Calvi's murder

The mafia and the vatican are at odds. Mafioso used to even 'burn a saint' (picture or statuette) to demonstrate that they didn't answer to the church anymore, but rather the brotherhood. So whats this got to do with the vatican-nwo idea??


If read in conjuction with Wiki on Paul Casimir Marcinkus

it is possible to see that there were all kinds of financial dodgy dealings going through the Vatican during the end of the last century, and when investigative reporters die when reporting, some people start to get suspicious. I think it is more a case of bad apples and not all-pervasive evil, but I thought I would mention it anyway


[edited to fix link to interesting information -nygdan]

[edit on 24-8-2005 by Nygdan]



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 10:12 PM
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People suggest that the Vatican is evil because they are ignorant. The Vatican is not evil, it may have some corrupt members, but face it, so do all religions. Catholicism is just an easy target because of the Crusades. But the Crusades were nearly 1000 years ago. Only an ignorant fool would blame anyone living today for the Crusades. I could just as easily be angry at the Jews alive today for the Jews thousands of years ago who drove out and murdered the original inhabitants of the Holy Land when Moses got there. Or I could be angry at the Muslims today for the ones centuries ago that drove out and murded those in the Holy Land then. Or I could be angry at the Americans today for those who invaded America hundreds of years ago and murdered the native Americans. Or I could be angry at all of the Germans living in Germany today for those that supported Hitler half a century ago. But I am not, because as I said before, only an ignorant fool would blame those living today for the crimes commited by others in the past. The motto of this website is "deny ignorance". I suggest you take it to heart.

[edit on 27-8-2005 by AnonymousUserVII]



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 11:34 PM
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i got this on another thread and found it interesting

www.historicist.com...



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 11:45 PM
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Originally posted by checkersI believe the book "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" by Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, and Henry Lincoln does an excellent job of explaining the conspiracy theory behind the NWO. This particular theory was derived from historical records that apparently indicate that the Vatican is in cahoots with the Knights Templar/Freemasons/Prieure de Sion (Illuminati) to empower Jesus' descendent, or blood heir, into a priest-king (antichrist) that will control a one world government and religion.


It has been shown to be a dupe and that the whole thing is poop.


I have read Holy Blood and Holy Grail and the follow on book. Good reading but bad on facts, I came across some good information on the The DaVinci Code and its author

Prieure de Sion

The DaVinci HOAX

[edit on 27-8-2005 by edsinger]



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 01:41 AM
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Thank you for answering this question, as it did not really make sense to me, as at times it did not really make sense that some people said that the vatican was evil. After all, the catholic church seems to be the church with the sense to follow what the bible says, particularly with divorcing, which got protestants created anyway.

The one thing that does spring to mind is the vaticans view on condoms, that they shouldn't be used/worn, but then if the people using them are christian(catholic in particular) they shouldn't need them anyway.

I am christian, but i would not actually say i am protestant/catholic/methodist/ etc as that is easier.



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 03:27 AM
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i dont know alot about the differnce between catholic, roman catholic, protistant, but if there is one thing i do know (from my heart, no links or facts to back it up) is that the vatican represents evil, who cares if it has anything to do with the nwo (if there is one) a large mass of the worlds population warships an evil house that has no purpose to faith.

as for the vaticans opinion on condoms. FOR CRYING OUT LOUD THIS IS A CHUCH, a house of warship, what would church need an opinion for, are the priests polititians. that vatican should have no buisness medeling in matters that are of no consern to them, they should have nothing to do with the state, they are there for when we call, not the other way around.



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 08:59 AM
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The Vatican was evil at some point, it SOLD forgiveness of sins, ejaculations, and many other NON Christian things. It had grown corrupt and evil in its actions.That is the whole reason for the reformation and the birth of Protestantism. Today, I think much of that corruption is no longer there but it still has major problems, but what Church doesn't? You have protestant churchs condoning homosexuality while the Bible specifically forbids it.

The Church today is Lukewarm at best.


But, Catholics are STILL Christians and many do not hold the office of the 'pope' in high esteem anymore anyway.



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 10:46 AM
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Good God the Vatican is NOT evil! If anyone is evil it is the Protestant church. The Protestants all offer an instant salvation as if it is just that easy. Accepting Jesus Christ as your savior won't do, a Christian has to do more. You have to accept Jesus Christ as your savior, have complete faith in Him and surrender your will to Him, and you have to live a moral life of good deeds and love of one another in peace. And your wrong about the "condom" comment. The Vatican oppses condoms for giving the opportunity for people to have pre-marital sex more easily, and says that they do not stop AIDS. I can site thousands of examples of so called "born again" Christians and their corruptions. Look at the most recent news of Pat Robertson saying that we should assasinate President Hugo Chavez. And Martin Luther, the founder of the Protestant church was a huge racist and anti-semetic. I am so tired of having to listen to Catholic bashers my entire life, so forgive me if I sound a bit angry.



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by AnonymousUserVII
Good God the Vatican is NOT evil!

I'd say KNOWINGLY covering up child molestation constitutes as 'evil'.. the past pope knew about it.. while the present pope had direct involvement in the coverups. If you choose not to see this as evil that is your perogative I guess.

And your wrong about the "condom" comment. The Vatican oppses condoms for giving the opportunity for people to have pre-marital sex more easily, and says that they do not stop AIDS.

The pope retracted the "It's a scientific fact that condoms don't prevent the aids virus" after he was condemned for this LIE by the world health organisation. Genocide through disinformation.



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by AnonymousUserVII
Good God the Vatican is NOT evil! If anyone is evil it is the Protestant church. The Protestants all offer an instant salvation as if it is just that easy. Accepting Jesus Christ as your savior won't do, a Christian has to do more. You have to accept Jesus Christ as your savior, have complete faith in Him and surrender your will to Him, and you have to live a moral life of good deeds and love of one another in peace. And your wrong about the "condom" comment. The Vatican oppses condoms for giving the opportunity for people to have pre-marital sex more easily, and says that they do not stop AIDS. I can site thousands of examples of so called "born again" Christians and their corruptions. Look at the most recent news of Pat Robertson saying that we should assasinate President Hugo Chavez. And Martin Luther, the founder of the Protestant church was a huge racist and anti-semetic. I am so tired of having to listen to Catholic bashers my entire life, so forgive me if I sound a bit angry.



i understand your standpoint as being catholic, but like i said i dont know the diference. and im still very impartial about the idea of spending your entire life in warship. if you love a god then you know the differnce between right and wrong, because something wrote the protocol of consious. if a church wants to asimulate itself a certain way and act a certain way (like all cults do) that is thier choice, but to ask believers of the same faith to believe what priests believe, because priests claim to be closer to god
, that should anwer the question right there, its nothing more than a dictatorship. as for condoms, i wonder if the priests use them when they are diddling chubby bum alter boys.(not just catholics)



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 02:03 PM
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Your sick you know that. You blame everyone involved with the church for what some corrupt ones did to children? It's not about "covering up". It's about forgiveness. Just because your a priest doesn't make you a child molester. The amount of preists who did that were microscopic compared to the good and pious priests that are on this earth. The media just blew it up so much that it seemed like a widespread epedemic. If you trust the media then your not denying ignorance. Catholicism isn't a cult. It's been around for 2000 years, I doubt a "cult" could survive that long. You can believe in whatever conspiratory lies you hear, but don't bash a religion that has been around for 2000 years and is held dear by 1.8 billion people worldwide you ignorant fool.



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by AnonymousUserVIIIf anyone is evil it is the Protestant church. The Protestants all offer an instant salvation as if it is just that easy. Accepting Jesus Christ as your savior won't do, a Christian has to do more. You have to accept Jesus Christ as your savior, have complete faith in Him and surrender your will to Him, and you have to live a moral life of good deeds and love of one another in peace.



Well that is not what the Bible says, lets take a look...Yeah I know faith without works is dead....but the works come with faith.....the 2 can not ((((BUT )))co-exist.
Edit: I made a mistake and didnt proof read it.....




Eph 2:4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
Eph 2:5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved.




John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.



These are just 2 verses but the theme is consistant, you must BELIEVE to be saved, there is no amount of works that can save you. Its a FREE gift.

So what then? Just keep getting forgiven every Sunday?



Rom 5:21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
Rom 6:2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
Rom 6:3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
Rom 6:5 If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.



No , then you would not be repentant....

[edit on 28-8-2005 by edsinger]



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