Europe to Join Russia in Building Next Space Shuttle

Well this is an interesting development. It looks like the ESA is going to join up with the Russian Space Agency in developing a shuttle of there own. I look forward to seeing how this develops. You can read more here:

www.spectrum.ieee.org...

Ideal fit, Russia's got the know how and Europe has the Cash. It's a win-win situation really. I'm sure that europe will get lots of tech out of this program.

Nothing's sure. The decision to join the Klipper program will be made in december by ESA’s Ministerial Council. It's a matter of money and i hope that the ministers will give a go-ahead and give the funds necessary

An early article on SpaceDaily.com stated that Japan, swell as Europe are interested in the Kliper project. It’s a shame that all nations could not come together and build one craft for the future, rather than the CEV and the Kliper.
The reason for this was in the article jra posted:

AS FOR RELATIONS WITH NASA, after more than a decade of cooperation, the Russians had few illusions. Painful Russian delays in the delivery of key components for the space station during the 1990s had prompted the U.S. Congress and the press to pound NASA for "letting Russia into the critical path of the station," to use a favored expression. In 2000, Congress prohibited NASA from buying Russian hardware and services altogether, because of Russia's nuclear and missile cooperation with Iran. This meant, among other things, that Russia could not bid on contracts for NASA's Crew Exploration Vehicle (CEV), planned to take astronauts to the moon and Mars and to put them into orbit.

"There was no question but that NASA was going to build the CEV on its own," says Derechin. "America would not accept any dependency on Russia." Therefore, any interaction between the Kliper and CEV projects will be limited to "programmatic and engineering compatibility," he says. "We don't want a repetition of the Soyuz-Apollo [docking mission], where we had air and they had [pure] oxygen [in the life-support system]." (Incompatibility of the atmospheres of the two spacecraft seriously complicated transfers between them.) The CEV is intended to enter service after 2010, when the current Space Shuttle fleet is retired, and Kliper is expected to follow suit within two years.

The Russians and Europeans, with few good alternatives, have seen their aspirations and needs converge around the Kliper project. If they are successful, this could open new horizons for manned spaceflight in this century.

ESA has the pople and the skills. A EU/ Russian space shuttle would be good.

Not that I don't read between the lines of this possible space merger, but on the more positive side seems to me Russia has a proven low orbit rocket system. And it came in handy during the US Shuttle shut-down period.

Dallas

Originally posted by Dallas

Not that I don't read between the lines of this possible space merger, but on the more positive side seems to me Russia has a proven low orbit rocket system. And it came in handy during the US Shuttle shut-down period.

Dallas

wouldn't it be ideal if all coutries had the one vision and working together on everything instead of this paranoid territorial psuedo battle field space race crap.
Sorry, I just had a moment of clarity - silly me.

Segregation is obviously the best model.

Imagine where we'd be if this happened back in the 50's - 60's.? tsk....



it's finally becoming so very clear..... and it makes me

[edit on 21-8-2005 by one_small_step]

If it happens it will be interesting to see what they name it!

Hope they do this,it would be really good for us and kick the yanks up a gear in the process.

It would be called "EuRUSpace"

Originally posted by sardion2000
Ideal fit, Russia's got the know how and Europe has the Cash. It's a win-win situation really. I'm sure that europe will get lots of tech out of this program.

I guess you mean Russia's Know How and Europe's cash AND Know How.
Europe sends up satelites on a regular basis and has a rather low failure rate. The Ariane 5 rocket is equaly solid and tested as the Russian Soyuz capsules and theres alot more Europe's know how encompasses.

Maybe they can get the Chinese in on this endeavor, then perhaps the whole picture will be alot clearer....

At any rate, the US space shuttle program has been in service how long, as compared to?

All I can say is its about time.





seekerof

[edit on 23-8-2005 by Seekerof]

Dont the Russians already have their own version of the Shuttle?
Would this project not just be to give this a cash injection and see what happens?

Since i cant really see the EU being willing to spend the billions necessary to build a shuttle from scratch.

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
Dont the Russians already have their own version of the Shuttle?
Would this project not just be to give this a cash injection and see what happens?

Since i cant really see the EU being willing to spend the billions necessary to build a shuttle from scratch.

Correct, the Russians have the Buran. Its supposed to be able to cary a ton or 2 more payload then the US Shuttle's too.

They cancelled the project because they didn't see the need to pump the money into it while the Soyuz capsules were such sturdy and rather cheap alternatives. I'd say they were right in the desicion back then since the Soyuz is still flying strong after all this time and only now is the need comming around for a shuttle with a higher payload then the Soyuz.

Turns out that any shuttle despign would have to be from scratch, the only Buran ever built was crushed when the hanger it was stored in collpased.

A good article can be found at Wikipedia

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
Turns out that any shuttle despign would have to be from scratch, the only Buran ever built was crushed when the hanger it was stored in collpased.

A good article can be found at Wikipedia

Actualy, there were 4 built and 1 partialy.

The one that was destroyed by the collapsing warehouse was the one they had done a full space launch and reentry test with.

One of the Burans' 1.0x's is said to have spent some time as an exhibit at a museum or something.

The 2.0x's were completed and are still at the factory catching dust.

And the article you refered to actualy shows all those things ... it doesn't say there was only 1 built ...

It's never going to happen.

Let me restate myself, I hope it does happen just to see the EU and the Russians fail.

The EU and the Russians do not have the cash to pull off a program of this type, and if they just happen to put together a program that flys, it will be 20 years down the road.

This is a bluff to get NASA to start flying the Shuttle now and not next year.

This all has to do with the building of the ISS and her resupply missions.

NASA is on hold as we all know, trying to figure out what they say is a foam insulation problem, I think it goes much deaper than this.

When Columbia went down and NASA was out of service, the Russians resupplied the ISS with a traditional type of heavy lift rocket.

On the Russian best day, they could only lift 1/5th of the shuttles payload at 1/2 of the cost to round trip the shuttle. So it took the Russians 5 trips at more than double cost of 1 Shuttle mission and the Russian could not bring back any tonnage from the ISS. Right now the ISS Euro people are screaming at NASA to start flying now.

Thats why I think this is a Bluff, the EU is saying to NASA start flying now or we will build our own heavy lift reuseable space craft and you, NASA and the US will be out of the ISS program.

Hell, the EU can not even agree on a constitution yet alone build a Shuttle.

Like I said it will never happen.

Originally posted by SIRR1
It's never going to happen.

Let me restate myself, I hope it does happen just to see the EU and the Russians fail.

The EU and the Russians do not have the cash to pull off a program of this type, and if they just happen to put together a program that flys, it will be 20 years down the road.

This is a bluff to get NASA to start flying the Shuttle now and not next year.

This all has to do with the building of the ISS and her resupply missions.

NASA is on hold as we all know, trying to figure out what they say is a foam insulation problem, I think it goes much deaper than this.

When Columbia went down and NASA was out of service, the Russians resupplied the ISS with a traditional type of heavy lift rocket.

On the Russian best day, they could only lift 1/5th of the shuttles payload at 1/2 of the cost to round trip the shuttle. So it took the Russians 5 trips at more than double cost of 1 Shuttle mission and the Russian could not bring back any tonnage from the ISS. Right now the ISS Euro people are screaming at NASA to start flying now.

Thats why I think this is a Bluff, the EU is saying to NASA start flying now or we will build our own heavy lift reuseable space craft and you, NASA and the US will be out of the ISS program.

Hell, the EU can not even agree on a constitution yet alone build a Shuttle.

Like I said it will never happen.

1)ESA is not the EU, some members of the EU are not member of ESA.

2) the EU did agree ( the head of state) on a constitution but the French and Dutch peoples rejected it in order to punish their government.

SIRR1, Don’t be so ignorant and narrow-minded of what others can do.


While I’m at it, Europe has a different situation to the USA and Canada is part of ESA as well (?)

Well all you have to look at is history. Burt Rutan managed to get into space on under a 100million with just one investor. I know it is a bit harder to get into orbit but I'm sure with the Russian experience and know how, this space plane will be built, and perform successfully. The fact that it may be an international effort makes things all the better.
Co-operation in space is what we need for the future.

Originally posted by SIRR1
It's never going to happen.

Let me restate myself, I hope it does happen just to see the EU and the Russians fail.

What's with this attitude? What reason do you have that you would want to see them fail? That sounds like a really bad and selfish attitude to me.

The EU and the Russians do not have the cash to pull off a program of this type, and if they just happen to put together a program that flys, it will be 20 years down the road.

We'll just have to wait and see won't we? I think they could pull it off if they manage there money well. Generally I find that the less money or resources one has, the more innovative one tends to be.

Thats why I think this is a Bluff, the EU is saying to NASA start flying now or we will build our own heavy lift reuseable space craft and you, NASA and the US will be out of the ISS program.

Firstly it's the ESA, not the EU. Those are two differnt things. Secondly. How would the RSA and ESA having a shuttle of there own, cause NASA to be out of the ISS program? That doesn't make any sense to me at all. The ESA has been planning to build a shuttle of there own for a little while now (although unmanned). The way I see it, the more shuttles there are to fly up to the ISS to support and supply it. The sooner we can actually use the ISS and have a full sized crew on it and everything.