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I am confused about the mason's.

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posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by df1

Originally posted by eudaimonia
Didn't JFK repent at some point? Realizing what he got himself into? Could've sworn I read that somewhere.


I'm not sure whether he repented or not and I'm not sure of his level of involvement in the KoC. An elder statesman from my Lodge said that he was raised an MM at a Lodge located on a military base and that Kennedy kicked the Lodges off of the military bases when he was elected President. Ive attempted to document this with no success. I'm curious as to whether he kicked the KofC off the bases as well. As with most things Kennedy, it must be a secret, which is quite ironic given his stated view on secrets.
.


You know what, just to play it safe, I'm going to remove my sig. I have no clue what JFK did behind closed doors and I can't find any info that says he made a mistake or whatever in joining a secret organization. I wouldn't be surprised if he was involved in all sorts of corrupt political "schemes". Who the hell can you trust nowadays? No one but yourself.




posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 02:58 AM
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Originally posted by Trinityman

Originally posted by Loungerist
He did not say he was the Messiah,that was what it got turned into by other people. He speaks of this in one of his books as well.



He did claim it. I and millions of other people actually heard him say it. Claiming otherwise is just pointless.



Again,he did say he was a son of God but I didn't see any claim of being the Messiah in the transcript of the show I read. I have seen other people put that into his words for him however. And again,Icke has never lost that view and to my knowledge that is his belief to this day:that we are all the sons and daughters of God.


David Icke

All that exists is the same energy,but these infinite patterns create infinite forms,just as water can manifest as liquid,clouds,steam and ice. They look and feel very different,but they are still water in different forms. Some energy patterns manifest as the human body,others the human mind,still others birds,trees,trees,insects,water,sky,and air. At the level of pure energy everything is connected to everything else. There is no us and them,only we and ultimately 'I'. Potententially we have the ability to access all other energy and,as energy and consciousness are the same,the ability to access all the consciousness,the infinite mind we call 'God'. This 'God' is not apart from us,it is us and we are it.




(Icke's view on the manipulation of Mankind via keeping Man ignorant of the reality around him)

The creation of religion and official 'science' has been fundamental to that and,as we have seen,the same secret society streams were responsible for establishing both.The individualization of the concept of 'God' into a man,a physical form,has suppressed the understanding that everything is God. So much so that to say you are God is to invite enormous redicule and or condemnation,as I know myself when I spoke very publicly of such things in Britain in the early 1990s. It has become blasphemy to say what you are,what we all are.





(from www.rinf.com...)


Fletch asks:
Do you still believe you are the son of God? If not, was there any particular moment when you realised you were not the offspring of a Deity or was it a more gradual process?

David Icke:
I am a Son of God, if you can open your mind enough to perceive us all as a droplet in the same infinite ocean of consciousness that some call 'God'. Indeed, open your mind some more (sorry about the headache, Fletch) and you will see that we are not only a droplet, we are the ocean also. Thus, continuing the analogy, we are both the 'son' and the 'father'. Yep, even you, mate.



If Icke himself has ever claimed to be the Messiah I've never seen it and he apparently doesn't recall ever saying it either. And while I tend to part ways with Icke when he goes into his personal beliefs,I can't say his views there don't make sense. Although personally I'm more interested in the information Icke presents than I am Icke the man himself. Particularly since many who attack Icke and those like him have never actually read the work for themselves to be able to do so intelligently. Not that you're doing that Trinity Man,just a general observation of this tactic.



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by Loungerist

Originally posted by Trinityman

Originally posted by Loungerist
He did not say he was the Messiah,that was what it got turned into by other people. He speaks of this in one of his books as well.



He did claim it. I and millions of other people actually heard him say it. Claiming otherwise is just pointless.



Again,he did say he was a son of God but I didn't see any claim of being the Messiah in the transcript of the show I read. I have seen other people put that into his words for him however. And again,Icke has never lost that view and to my knowledge that is his belief to this day:that we are all the sons and daughters of God.


David Icke

All that exists is the same energy,but these infinite patterns create infinite forms,just as water can manifest as liquid,clouds,steam and ice. They look and feel very different,but they are still water in different forms. Some energy patterns manifest as the human body,others the human mind,still others birds,trees,trees,insects,water,sky,and air. At the level of pure energy everything is connected to everything else. There is no us and them,only we and ultimately 'I'. Potententially we have the ability to access all other energy and,as energy and consciousness are the same,the ability to access all the consciousness,the infinite mind we call 'God'. This 'God' is not apart from us,it is us and we are it.




(Icke's view on the manipulation of Mankind via keeping Man ignorant of the reality around him)

The creation of religion and official 'science' has been fundamental to that and,as we have seen,the same secret society streams were responsible for establishing both.The individualization of the concept of 'God' into a man,a physical form,has suppressed the understanding that everything is God. So much so that to say you are God is to invite enormous redicule and or condemnation,as I know myself when I spoke very publicly of such things in Britain in the early 1990s. It has become blasphemy to say what you are,what we all are.





(from www.rinf.com...)


Fletch asks:
Do you still believe you are the son of God? If not, was there any particular moment when you realised you were not the offspring of a Deity or was it a more gradual process?

David Icke:
I am a Son of God, if you can open your mind enough to perceive us all as a droplet in the same infinite ocean of consciousness that some call 'God'. Indeed, open your mind some more (sorry about the headache, Fletch) and you will see that we are not only a droplet, we are the ocean also. Thus, continuing the analogy, we are both the 'son' and the 'father'. Yep, even you, mate.



If Icke himself has ever claimed to be the Messiah I've never seen it and he apparently doesn't recall ever saying it either. And while I tend to part ways with Icke when he goes into his personal beliefs,I can't say his views there don't make sense. Although personally I'm more interested in the information Icke presents than I am Icke the man himself. Particularly since many who attack Icke and those like him have never actually read the work for themselves to be able to do so intelligently. Not that you're doing that Trinity Man,just a general observation of this tactic.


Well, I think it's interesting to point out here that Icke said A son of God, not THE son of God. And he wasn't directing this only to himself, but to everyone.

Axeman, why did you even bring this point up? Not only did you bring it up, but you didn't even understand what he was trying to say. I understand what Icke means now, why not you and others? There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying, "We are all sons of a God". It's so simple



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by Loungerist
Again,he did say he was a son of God...


He said he was the son of "Godhead." He later backtracked and said he was "mad at the time."

Can you provide some sources for your quotes there, please?

[edit on 8/25/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by The Axeman

Originally posted by Loungerist
Again,he did say he was a son of God...


He said he was the son ogf "Godhead." He later bactracked and said he was "mad at the time."

Can you provide some sources for your quotes there, please?



"In an interview on the Terry Wogan show in 1991, his announcement that he was "a son of the Godhead," and that Britain would be devastated by tidal waves and earthquakes, was met with laughter from the studio audience, derision in the press, and suggestions that he was mentally ill. His supporters say that he was in fact describing all humans as children of God, or of some sort of deity, and that the confusion resulted from his scrambling to explain his spiritual apotheosis."

"I am the Son of Godhead." (ibid. He later backtracked and said we are all sons of the Godhead)"
well, technically, he's right here in saying I am the Son of Godhead. Because he backtracks and says we all are, if he hadn't backtracked on that statement, I would be a little concerned...


Hmm. An interview with Anton Levey:

"I can only see that as an extreme form of masochism, whether it’s self-realized or unrealized. To me, Christianity as it has been practiced or advocated is a life-denying, rather than life-affirming, thing. It has been said before, and I’ll say it again, reiterate, that wearing a cross around one’s neck - the cross being the object of the execution or the destruction of the godhead or the spiritual leader - is no different than wearing an electric chair around your neck if he had been electrocuted or a gas chamber around your neck if he died by cyanide eggs."
www.mindcontrolforums.com...

"Church of Christ, Scientist, Mary Baker Eddy; Boston, MS:
Believes that the idea of the Trinity is polytheistic.
Teach the Godhead is composed of God the father/Mother,
Christ the spiritual idea of sonship and the Holy Ghost is
the Divine Science or Christian Science.
"
www.skepticfiles.org...



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 08:44 AM
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posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by The Axeman

Can you provide some sources for your quotes there, please?



They come from his actual books. Either The Biggest Secret,Children of the Matrix,or both. It's a common theme in Icke's belief of how to combat the manipulation.

[edit on 25-8-2005 by Loungerist]



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 11:43 AM
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books.guardian.co.uk...

www.publiceye.org...

direland.typepad.com...

www.bubblegun.com...

www.theanswerbank.co.uk...

OK. I'm done. Sorry Nygdan. Had to.

BTW that last one is great:


Mr. Icke is Madder than One Legged Unicyclist Hairy Mad Jack McMaddock of Maddison Way, Aberdeen.


ROFL


*we now return you to the regularly scheduled Mason-bashing and other miscellaneous shenanigans*

[edit on 8/25/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 09:38 PM
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The masons have a medical facility that studies all sorts of ailments and offers it's findings to the medical comunity. The grotto (a masonis orgination) gives glasses to those wits vision problems and cant afford going to a doctor. Then you have the shriners (another masonis orgination) that has the best burn treatment available. FREE! To say that the masons do all this crazy stuff to people is ludicres. Was your grandfather like that? Check it out, odds are that if he fought in the 2nd world war he was a member. If he wasn't then I'll bet you have a close relitive (or friend) who is. Even if you don't know it, you owe your entire way of life to the masons. Even if their are some self-rightious polititions who are doing everything they can to mess it up.



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by The Axeman

Originally posted by Parasite Heaven
Please someone explain.


Thank GOD for people who have the metal to ask questions before claiming "facts."


The fact of the matter is, it is just a fraternity... but not just a fraternity. Make sense? Maybe not.

Lookit, from the mere fact that you come here and asked first, before jumping to conclusions, I deduce taht you are not one of these types that will dismiss what they have to say about their own group. I hope this is the case. If such is the case, here are some links for you to check out:

First, a little about David Icke... www.masonicinfo.com...

And the Illuminati... www.masonicinfo.com...

Now on to Masonry...

www.masonicinfo.com...

web.mit.edu...

glquebec.org...

altreligion.about.com...

Hope this helps. You'll notice I linked to www.masonicinfo.com 3 times; It's a great site. There is a WEALTH of information there. I stongly recommend checking it out at length. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.




[edit on 8/19/05 by The Axeman]


I know very little about freemasons from which to have much more then neutral opinion yet, however several things stuck out on the links that I do not care for so much concerning the organization.

for example



www.masonicinfo.com...
Freemasons are taught to conform to the moral laws of society and to abide by the laws of the government under which they live



What are the fees?

The admission fees are generally minimal, less than $500 and they include the cost of the apron. The annual dues are in most cases around $100. No other financial contribution is required. The contribution to the benevolent funds of the lodge are voluntary.

Can a person leave Freemasonry?

Every member in good standing (up to date with his dues) can leave the Order through a simple request in writing to the lodge, which will automatically grant his request without any further obligations.



Conform to the government? Conformity has nothing g to do with what is right.. I guess you would be following proper order to go by racist laws or resist morals if it was considered moral? Being moral and true to oneself is a good virtue but societies morals and laws are not always right. If you want to take laws so seriously then just go look at history where stupid or laws that were definitely wrong or had some other agenda behind it that had nothing to do with concern for morals... Or check out www.stupidlaws.com or dumblaws.com and tell me that conformity is always a good thing.

Another thing is why should someone have to ask permission to leave a organization? Also what if he is not up to date with his dues or in good standing are they going o tell him he cant leave? and if so how? And what obligations? why should one feel like he has obligations aside from freely contributing to an organization of their liking at their will and on their terms... I wouldn’t' put up with anyone telling me I am obligated to them or their organization.

Another thing I can't believe people will pay 500.0 to be part of a club that appears to be no different then self help club.... taking high performance sales and marketing courses and studying human behavior can get you far on life.. you would be better of spending your money on good solid helpful material where you don’t' have someone telling you a re now obligated to them...

and terms like worshipful master conjure images of submission and domination like BDSM ,and the like .... not something I am into....masons seems pretty haughty... I understand the mainstream people are pretty lame gullible and hard to respect.... but still to judge everyone outside their organization as below them is also pretty narrow minded.

How do you masons put up with this .…….. ?


Any ways this is my interpretations from what I have read... please to challenge it and let me know if you think I am wrong..........



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by only onus
you owe your entire way of life to the masons.



I will say this submissive expectation strikes a negative cord with me

Wow LOL you think I owe masons for my very existence LOL??? You know I have not formed solidly yet any opinion of the masons and I will refrain from assuming they are all like you, but unless someone is Into BDSM or some kind of kind they will not be Into some arrogant haughty people saying we owe them for our way of life.…

Reminds me of a bum on the street acting all nice but then when you deny him he calls you some names because you own that bum your money somehow right LOL.

As far as I am concerned I really try to treat everyone equally as human beings, but ultimately I OWE NO ONE NOTHING.



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 10:20 PM
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You know you guys just realy complicate things more than you should:

1 John 4:3

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh IS NOT OF GOD: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Ga 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto ANOTHER GOSPEL:

Ga 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, PREACH ANY OTHER GOSPEL unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Am 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

Look folks, God is diametrically opposed to Freemasonry.
Follow Jesus and get under His Blood. It's the only way. I mean come on... what do you have to loose? If you want to better yourselves and contribute to to your brother do it in JESUS' name.

Remember, good works don't get you into the Kingdom of God.


We all have a date with destiny and when that date comes I sure want to be on the right side of the fence. What side are you on? Choose carefully.


here are some verses you need to pay close attention too:

Mt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? AND IN THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?


Mt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Now why on earth would Jesus rebuke someone who had done many 'wonderful works'.. EVEN in his name?


Think about that carefully.

Look.. It's really simple, you can't follow Jesus and be a Mason at the same time.


Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, *I* am the way, *the* truth, and *the* life: *NO* man cometh unto the Father, but by *ME*.


And if you are not following Jesus then you are definitely in SERIOUS trouble.
You nothing to loose following Jesus but EVERYTHING to loose if you don't.

A good read:

www.ephesians5-11.org...




















[edit on 4-3-2006 by TxSecret]



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 11:38 PM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
Lodge numbers and suchlike are largely meaningless outside of Masonic circles and nobody is going to tell you theirs anyway,


United Press Lodge no. 134 of the Grand Lodge of Western Australia.

We meet at the corner of Temple Street and Albany Highway first Saturday of every month. Look forward to seeing you there!

Gee......you were wrong there werent you Necross


df1

posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by TxSecret
Look.. It's really simple, you can't follow Jesus and be a Mason at the same time.

Can you please cite which chapter and verse says the above. I've throughly searched various versions of the bible and can't seem to find it.

BTW when you aren't busy speaking for God, do you ever have occasion to practice any of the following?
  1. Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
  2. Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
  3. Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven
Just asking, Im not making any judgements about you. It's not my place.
.



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 11:59 PM
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Axeman,

Hello.


Just out of curiosity, but if you honestly believe Necros is insane, why are you torturing, ridiculing and egging him on? If someone is \ paranoid, and you believe they have no reason to be, calling them insane and laughing at them is going to do more damage than good. I find your techniques to be suspect. So for my own conspiracy theory, either you are:

1. Playing a little game with Necros as a willing participant
2. Playing a little game with Necros as an unwilling participant
3. You are Necros' sock puppet
4. A person who likes to argue just for the sake of arguing, and chooses various subjects to champion, even if you don't believe them yourself.
5. A mason who wants to hush up the critics
6. Someone who likes to toy with people you feel are easy targets, such as conspiracy theorists. (Oooo I qualify now)
Or #7. Someone who is trying to make masonry look bad by persecuting its opponents, even while indicating that you are aware they are mentally ill.

If you are a mason, I find it hard to believe they would condone your behavior towards Necros, simply because they claim to be so supportive of people who are ill and are a charitable organization that is helpful to the community..


[edit on 5-3-2006 by undo]



posted on Mar, 5 2006 @ 12:04 AM
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My Grandad was a Mason and now my Mum's colleague is one, I believe.

If you have any questions regarding the Masons, ask me and I'll try to answer them.



posted on Mar, 5 2006 @ 12:13 AM
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I just love it when someone thinks that because somebody is in a controversial group that they cannot be a civil human being, or that they are somehow involved in an evil conspiracy. It just reminds me of how far the average human has come on their road to complete ignorance. I wish that people would stop judging a whole group for what a few bad examples do. There are all kinds of people on this planet, and you WILL find them EVERYWHERE!! No matter where you look, they'll be there.

With that said, I would like to make it clear that I don't agree with everything anyone has to say until I have seen that it's true and accurate for myself. I never take anything on face value. Proof is imperative when making a conclusion about something. Also, just because one person does something wrong, and they are a member of a secular group, doesn't make all of that group privvy to the same ridicule that the one suffers. We must rise above this demeaning norm that we've managed to get into if we have any hopes of evolving intellectually as a species.

Personally though, I choose to walk a different path. I take what I know to be the truth, and put that with all of the other truth that I've acquired, and live based on that. Maybe, at some point in the distant future, ignorance will finally be abolished. When that happens, I'll be there smiling with an extended hand, welcoming all of those that were ignorant to a new understanding. An understanding where everyone knows that everyone else is human; we all make mistakes, and that when mistakes are made, that we band together to make sure that it never happens again. Learn from the mistakes, don't continue to make them.

Pay credence to history, as it's what makes us what we are today.

TheBorg

[edit on 5-3-2006 by TheBorg]



posted on Mar, 5 2006 @ 12:23 AM
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I don't know alot about the masons, but my mum said the other day they do alot of charity work (sorry if this has been said).



posted on Mar, 5 2006 @ 02:47 AM
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Just wanted to point a few things out....

Is Prince Philip, Queens Husband...a Mason? If so, what degree?
Is the Queen 'Patroness of International Freemasonry?'
Is Tony Blair a Mason? If so, What degree?
WAS Joseph Smith (Founder of the Mormon Church) a Mason? if so, What Degree?
Was the founder of the Jehovahs Witness as Mason? if so, What Degree?

I know that the Mormon church has direct connections to Masons. For goodness sake, why would a Mormon wear the 'magic undies' with Masonic symbolism on it????

Why would a Mormon church have statues of 'Adam and Eve' giving 'fruits, and wheat' on a sacrificial alter, whith a lamb laying comfortably by the alters side? I mean, doesn't this mean that the Mormon Church believe that Cain gift to God was the proper gift?

Why do the Mormons beleive that Lucifer is Jesus's Brother, and that God himself was named Elohim.

Why did a high ranking Mormon tell me that Adam and Eve were SUPPOSED to eat off the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and why did a ex-mormon tell a group I was with, that they do infact worship Lucifer? Also why do the mormon church use the rituals similar to that of a Masonic ritual, and why do the older mormon churches have pentagrams, goats heads and masonic symbolism on their churches?

Why does the Pope sit on a chair with an Upside down cross on it?

Why is Mohammed Al-Fayed accusing 'Prince Philip' of orderring the execution of Diana and Dodi? Back to my my main question, is Prince Philip a Mason?

If Prince Philip IS a high ranking Mason, AND if mohammed Al-fayed is proven to be right, then i'm sorry, this tells me that the high ranking freemasons are indeed sinister! Why would an outsanding man, a great man, a man with high morals, a man who 'may' be a mason, order the execution of Diana and Dodi.......

So I ask the readers of this post....find out if Prince Philip is a Mason, and then make up your own minds.

Axeman, by continueing to believe what you do, and of course, your posts saying that if you found anything out about masonry that was indeed sinister, that you would wave the red flag. I can tell you now, you will not progress past the first few degrees, you should be greatfull!!! As you will be around others who truly do great charitable work.

MAJORITY of Masons are great people, i KNOW this for a fact, but I also KNOW that the 'higher' ups are indeed NOT great people. The fraternity is infact in the shape of a Pyramid, the higher you go, the more esoteric knowledge you learn, as well as the core of where it came FROM. The higher up you go, the more your mind changes with certain values.

I read a lot about people calling mrNECROS insane. Ummm..insane to whom? Insane to Society? society was CREATED and is CONTROLLED by those who want you to believe you have freedom. mrNECROS should be COMMENDED for his continued fight for his right to say what he believes is right. He should NOT be ridiculed, because all i see whenever someone calls others paranoid, crazy, insane, abnormal, I just see ventriloquists spewing out the crap that is programmed into them! People are calling others abormal for their 'altered' way of thinking, why? Because they are SHEEP, sheep in a friqn pen, abiding to the sheep dog, and abiding by other sheep because they do not want to be called DIFFERENT. Of course, every sheep in turn is controlled by the masters.

So DO read the work of David Icke, DO read the work of Masons, DO read the books on Einstein, DO read the work of Nicola Tesla, because not only will you gain greater knowledge on everything you read, but you will make up your own godam mind!

Love to all!
Merger



posted on Mar, 5 2006 @ 06:41 AM
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Just a partial reply from me I'm afraid as I don't feel particularly qualified to answer questions about the mormons

Originally posted by Merger
Is Prince Philip, Queens Husband...a Mason? If so, what degree?

I think this was answered recently on another thread, but Prince Philip is an Entered Apprentice. He joined freemasonry many years ago, it is said just to keep his father happy, and is entirely dormant in the Craft.


Is the Queen 'Patroness of International Freemasonry?'

No. There is no such thing as 'International' freemasonry. There is an irregular Grand Lodge of that name in the US but it's small and nothing to do with the Queen.


Is Tony Blair a Mason? If so, What degree?

No


Why does the Pope sit on a chair with an Upside down cross on it?

This has also been covered in a recent thread.


If Prince Philip IS a high ranking Mason, AND if mohammed Al-fayed is proven to be right, then i'm sorry, this tells me that the high ranking freemasons are indeed sinister!

But as he isn't, presumably this means the 'high ranking freemasons aren't sinister! Seriously though, how much of the theory that the freemasons are involved in the death of Diana hinges on the masonic seniority of Prince Philip? Are there other masonic connections that would lend any legitimacy to the theory?


MAJORITY of Masons are great people, i KNOW this for a fact...

Indeed. And statistically at least that includes me



but I also KNOW that the 'higher' ups are indeed NOT great people. The fraternity is infact in the shape of a Pyramid, the higher you go, the more esoteric knowledge you learn, as well as the core of where it came FROM. The higher up you go, the more your mind changes with certain values.

Here, however, we must disagree. But to discuss this further we must first determine 'who' are the 'higher ups'. Mainstream conspiracy theory usually defines 'high up' as 33 degree. What do you think?




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