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Writing To Congress Can Now Cost You Your Job

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posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 07:19 PM
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I am not a racist, and see nothing wrong with her writing a letter to her congressman, IF in fact she did. For her to state her observation of what she sees happening in her area is her right under the Constitution. Sometimes, a race or religion needs to be mentioned within a situation as that may be the majority of citizens involved in the issue. No one gets upset if someone singles out a certain group when there is a benefit involved, such as clothing/food/shelter even though there are other groups in need of the same items. Love or leave it... it's her right.

As far as anyone being in the military, the job of the military is to protect the CONSTITUTION. The military is to protect the foundation of this country, though, that ideal has certainly been skewed within the past 50 years or so
. Nonetheless, part of that foundation is Freedom of Speech. This teacher was not doing this from the school itself, and the state/federal government was out of line allowing her letter (IF she indeed sent one) to be released to the public eye.

I think anyone can choose to see racism in every situation if they are on the lookout for a cause.




posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by rapture777
I wonder if the letter said blacks insted of Puerto Rican how the people will think about her?
Is racist! If she send a letter to congres I just can imagine how she would treat a puerto rican student or a coworker.... If the school have rules about it, she lose the job.. What will she teach the children? That Puerto Rican are immigrants? Wow and she said that them cant get a job and she is the first ignorant uneducated fool! I read the article, it says that she have problems before. The ones that should be ban from school are ignorant racist teacher like her!


If she had said black, white, Christian, Muslim, or reptillian, I would still be defending her right to say it. Freedom of speach allows idiots and bigots to be exposed. If we restrict people's speach because we don't like what they'resaying, they will continue to say it, but underground, out of the public's eye. That may sound attractive at first, but do you remember several terms ago when David Duke ran for president? The guy had charisma! Thankfully, because we allow these crackpots to voice their opinion, it was well known and the media made sure everyone knew he was a grand wizzard of the KKK. Had the KKK's hate speach been made illegal, there wouldn't have been news coverage of the horrible things he had to say, and he could have actually made a decent bid for the presidency. Imagine what would happen if we unknowingly elected a grand wizard of the KKK to be president!

As to her behavior in class, the article doesn't go into any detail, it just says that someone wasn't suprised. If there was any real substance to that remark, she would have been called to task for it harshly. After all, look what happened to her for a letter she may have written in private! For other examples of how harshly schools deal with any remote possibility of racism, check out toungetied.us... .



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 10:02 PM
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Way back at the beginning of this thread it said that this person repeatedly wrote letters...Could it be she wrote ONE too many letters?
Her voice should be heard, but some people become USmail stalkers.



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 10:12 PM
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Are ya'll still going on about this?

She's not in jail. She's suspended from her job.

Of course she has a right to say anything she wants. And accept the consquences. Employer's have right's too (Can't believe I have to keep telling conservatives that.)

Free speech is protected. But not from reasonable consequences.

She's not being silenced. Just fired. Now she has more time to write her congressman.


Why do I increasingly feel like the conservative in all these discussions?



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 10:15 PM
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Ok, alright already...I can always count on being chased off to bed by either RANT or Seekerof....

Good night.. *sheeeesh*



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 10:20 PM
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hehe Rant, you may be suprised to hear this, but I agree with that stance. In my opinion, that's the way it should be.

My problem with this issue is that it is the law, but the law now only protects some, not all. Turn this around, as rapture777 did and make her a black woman saying whites were doing that in a letter to congress. If the superintendant suspended her without pay before even finding out for sure that she wrote that letter as that letter was written (ie no changes), he would be evicerated for a couple hours before being fired and never finding another job in the education field. It's the double standard in the law that drives me up a wall. That's also why most of my PC gone mad stuff focuses on legal issues instead of groups coming out and demanding appologies or whatever. I fully support those group's right to do that, I don't support the law's right to pick and choose who to hold to the law and who to give a pass, especially when it has to do with ideology.



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 03:31 AM
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Originally posted by RANT
Are ya'll still going on about this?

Well, it's a boring Friday night in the Midwest lmao

She's not in jail. She's suspended from her job.

Of course she has a right to say anything she wants. And accept the consquences. Employer's have right's too (Can't believe I have to keep telling conservatives that.)

I think the issue is how did this teacher infringe on her employer's rights while using her right to free speech? If she infringed on her employer's rights in any way then there should be consequences. The consequences should match the behavior. Firing/suspension is a tad overboard. However, that seems to be the atmosphere of the country right now.

Free speech is protected. But not from reasonable consequences.

Is it reasonable to fire someone, hence taking away their livelihood, due to their exercising of their constitutional rights? Would you find it reasonable if your real name were discovered, traced back to your employer, your employer reads some of your posts on this board, and fires you because he/she finds something you said contrary to their own belief system? Would you be posting the same words? I guess we all have to decide for ourselves how we define "reasonable consequences".

She's not being silenced. Just fired. Now she has more time to write her congressman.


It's going to be tough buying her writing supplies without an income lmao Though, she can file for unemployment benefits when and if they choose to fire her ...

Why do I increasingly feel like the conservative in all these discussions?


[edit on 20-8-2005 by Star of Curiosity]

[edit on 20-8-2005 by Star of Curiosity]

[edit on 20-8-2005 by Star of Curiosity]



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 04:17 AM
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She have the right to free speech but, would you let your kid in school with a teacher like that?? You can't be a racist and be in a work, that deals with people of all kind every day and have to treat them as equals.. In other words, she is telling the people that she cant handle it, because they're puerto ricans in the school and she is racist... Thats why the KKK people wear those mask.

[edit on 20-8-2005 by rapture777]



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 04:26 AM
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I am an extreme ultra conservative. I'm a neo-con. I have what some would consider outrageous opinions. I qualify them, sure, but they're still fringe opinions, no mater how eloquent I am. Yet you talk to anyone I work wit, with the exception of my close friends (my boss included), and they would have no idea where I stand politically. I had one person ask me a month or two ago who I voted for, I told her, and she just stood there with her mouth open before she asked me how I could vote for a fascist. I hold the opinions I have, but I don't express them when it is, in my mind, inappropriate. I was talking with another coworker who was an active member of the Kerry campaign during the election about the election. We talked a bit, had an interesting conversation, I questioned him on some issues but never stated where I came from. The woman that found out I voted for Bush told him about it, and he came to me not believing what she said was true. He was incredulous, and when I told him she was telling the truth, that I voted for Bush and fully support the war in Iraq, he suddenly went on a tirade in an attempt to convince me to turn to his side. My reaction was simply a condescending smile; he was talking talkignpoints of the democratic party and I was well aware of them. I told him as much after he finished his lecture.

Just because you believe in something, or believe something is a problem doesn't mean it permiates every aspect of your life. It does if you want it to or allow it to, but I am sure there are people I work with whose opinion I have no idea, but based on their personality they feel extremely strongly for one side or the other. You can't assume someone will behave a certain way based on their ideology. That's just as bad as what you're accusing Ms. Hall of.



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 04:39 AM
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JJ

You finally said something in this post that I agree with.
Our roles seem to be reversed here in a Freaky Friday way . I am the opposite in most ways to a Neo-Con but in this thread, just like Rant, I am feeling utterly 'conservative' in comparison. Very strange to be on the other side of the fence on this one.

I still stand that it isn't her freedom of speech that is at stake here. Yes all idiots and bigots are allowed to say what they want but under certain employment terms (this one for example) it seems she has crossed a line and it going to be handed the consequences.

My initial post said it but I will repeat: I am more upset/interested in HOW this letter got circulated in the first place. If you want to talk about rights, how about her right to anonymity or privacy? 'We' don't know if she put down her entire signature on the handwritten letter or even asked the congressman to pay the school a visit.

On the silly side - She must have good handwriting. If I wrote a letter you could bet that they would still be tryingt to decipher my writing.



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 04:49 AM
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If she behaves racist in the classroom, then that is a work related incident. Most certainly suspension/firing needs to take place immediately. However, we're talking apples and oranges.

And yes, I would allow her to teach my child if she were doing her job as a teacher.

You must live in a nonexistent community where racism doesn't exist. There are racists of every racism, color, and creed in every occupation in this country. The structure of this country ensures this to be true.

A real eyeopener for me on this issue was when I was in college, and sitting in a bar with a couple of professors. One of them looked up at the clock and told me it was time for me to go home as there was going to be trouble. A black man and a white woman had just had a baby together ... born that week, and that night was a scheduled "welcoming". It was horrible! The prof walked me to my car, and on the way to my car I saw some of my city's "finest" arriving to take part in the "celebration". I pretended not to recognize those I knew, and just continued walking to my car. Not one word was publically mentioned about the "celebration". This is considered to be a Christian community too
Teachers, bankers, and yes..ministers by day; racist thugs by night.


Originally posted by rapture777
She have the right to free speech but, would you let your kid in school with a teacher like that?? You can't be a racist and be in a work, that deals with people of all kind every day and have to treat them as equals.. In other words, she is telling the people that she cant handle it, because they're puerto ricans in the school and she is racist... Thats why the KKK people wear those mask.

[edit on 20-8-2005 by rapture777]



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 09:00 AM
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I truly do understand the debate that is going on in this thread concerning the repercussions of this teacher writing this letter. And I understand both sides. But my personal opinion is that this is kind of like the military "don't ask don't tell" concept. Until this teacher put her sheer stupidity and bigotry into written form she seemed to be under the radar. The minute she confirmed it there's not much more you can do than remove her from an ability to negatively affect our children.

Good riddance in my mind.

[edit on 8-20-2005 by Valhall]



posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 10:31 AM
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I had just assumed the article that was supposed to have the letter in it did. I don't speak Spanish, but I just thought to translate it using Alta Vista's Babelfish. The letter isn't quoted in any way, just referred to. I started digging deeper as a result, trying to find this infamous letter that an unscrupulous congressperson or member of their staff decided should be leaked to a paper.

I have found nothing.

The letter doesn't seem to exist. There's references to it, people weighing in on its contents, but the contents don't seem to be available anywhere. What's going on? No one even quotes statements from the letter that I've read, except for the now infamous "foreigners are the largest users of taxpayers' money." which, apparently, even if true, a teacher is not allowed to believe. Nothing else.

There has also been the question of legitimacy. What if she did write the letter? I'm guessing that it was written in English, but was published in a Spanish newspaper. It had to be translated, and, I'm also guessing, Spanish doesn't have the same grammatical structure English does. I gathered that from reading the translated article about the letter. If the translator doesn't like what's communicated in the letter and knows it's going to be published, what's to stop them from using one word that is more inflammatory than another, skewing some of the statements, etc. While the translation would, in essence, be a direct translation, it would seriously skew your perception of original intent.

Then there's also the question of added in things. She has admitted to writing a letter to congress in 2002. This letter was published last week. Have any of you written a letter 3 years ago? If I were to illegally obtain a copy of that letter and throw in some words, change a little bit of the language, etc., would you be able to point out to me exactly what I did and didn't change?

In this issue there are a lot of questions. A lot. Far too many, in my opinion, to immediately suspend a teacher without pay for an accusation that can't be substantiated. Do we here at ATS suspend mods because some member gripes that they were mean or demeaning through an email, something outside of our community?



posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by Star of Curiosity
As far as anyone being in the military, the job of the military is to protect the CONSTITUTION. The military is to protect the foundation of this country, though, that ideal has certainly been skewed within the past 50 years or so
. Nonetheless, part of that foundation is Freedom of Speech. This teacher was not doing this from the school itself, and the state/federal government was out of line allowing her letter (IF she indeed sent one) to be released to the public eye.

I think anyone can choose to see racism in every situation if they are on the lookout for a cause.


Actually the statement made when you are sworn into the military is "
to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same". Talk about being wide open for interpretation!!!

If the woman's employer was a private company or corporation then I would agree that they would be corect in firing her, but her employer is part of the local government and I feel that the rules should be a little different here. If this is allowed to stand it sets a very dangerous precedent. What if instead of writing this "so called letter" (since no one has been able to produce this letter) to her Congresscritter, she was running for a seat on the school board and the racial issue was raised in her campaign? If it could be documented that she was allowing these views to affect her teaching or was trying to force these views on her students then I would support her termination 100%.

In my opinion the bigger issue is how was this "so called letter" leaked to the media? Was it leaked to try to gain support for the Congresscritter with the minorities in the district? If the author of this "so called letter" was in any other job would it even be an issue?



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by C0le
Wonder if the ACLU will be there for her?


Yeah right! ACLU is bleeding-heart when it comes to illegal immigrants. National sovereignty doesn't matter to those guys.

They'd probably scream that she really is a racist.



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 08:55 PM
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Siiiigh...This is getting ugly. Morons are calling in death threats against the superintendant and, it sounds like, threatening to bomb the school if she's not reinstated. Terrorists at home, thinking they have a cause and a means by which to exact that cause, despite living in a system where they have a voice -- even if they don't threaten someone. This ain't right. It's as bad a murder in the name of preventing murder (abortion clinic bombings).

On the 23rd, the school board met to decide this teacher's fate, but they didn't. They decided to maintain the suspension without pay (I'm sure aided in their decision by the idiots threatening them -- I know I'd like to stick it to them by doing the opposite of what they say), pending further investigation.

Despite all the psychotic idiots out there, I hope that, when all is over and done with and this woman is exhonerated, they give her back pay. Being called a racist is the only crime around today where you are punished before judgement is even considered. The accusation causes severe punishment, and no matter what the outcome, you're scarred for the rest of your life. People will remember you as "that racist", even if you were accused because someone didn't get a free sandwich (my experience. Should have seen the look on the non-African American people in the shop when that accusation flew. Thankfully, there were several other African Americans in the shop who contradicted him as he stumbled out of the place). It's like the new McCarthyism. Guilty, regardless of innocence.



posted on Sep, 19 2005 @ 03:27 PM
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Well, they won. The teacher has resigned from the school, but the school board is going to continue investigating the incident to see if they can revoke her teaching license.


the fifth-grade teacher said the district gave her the option to teach homebound students if she met with a psychiatrist and signed a letter of apology written by district staff.


I think I need to change that subject for the thread, "You Better Agree With Me Or Everyone Will Hate You" to include, "and You Will Be Judged Mentally Unfit."

If I wasn't in such a great mood today I would probably be swearing every other word in this post. This is awful. This teacher was suspended for an uncorroborated letter translated in a newspaper that refused to give out its source and the teacher wasn't even sure who the congressperson was she wrote to in 2002. Now she's considered mentally incompetent because she may have expressed her observations.

Never mind that, when the Orlando Sentinel dug into her tenure at the school her file was riddled with "stellar reviews." Never mind the fact that over her 25 years of teaching, she received fantastic reviews from all of the other schools she taught at. Never mind some of those "stellar reviews" came after the letter had been written. Never mind the letter was leaked or stolen. Never mind the language could have been changed.

All that matters is that an Hispanic newspaper published a private letter to a congressperson that didn't agree with their views, so she must be insane.

Psychiatric help indeed.

www.orlandosentinel.com...



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