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Freemasonry: "Riding the Fence" and Changing Sides --- Opinions

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posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 10:44 AM
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I'm in Category (n) I guess.
I had no idea who these loonies were until they drugged me senseless for about 6 months and tried to brainwash me before realising I was a lost cause and then branding me an "anti" which then entitled me to about 3 years of constant abuse until I managed to escape to Thailand.

It's hard to convey the exasperation I feel when I see what is just blatent lying being posted about these guys in relation to charity work and suchlike, I mean they do sweet FA compared to any group I know.
The word "Charity" is a Masonic joke anyway because as they reveal even to Iniates, the word does not mean the same thing to them as it does to a Profane.

Seriously all through my child hood and suchlike I never saw the Freemasons do anything but you always heard things like they were really some cross between a weirdo-cult and an organised crime syndicate but I never really heard THAT much about them and after I was invited down to "the club" for a beer by my neighbour and it turned out the club was a Masonic Centre I never gave it much though until ten years later when I was being lead arounf West Malling in Kent wacked up to the eyeballs on Rohipnol performing "personality assessment" and "roleplay" exercises.

Face facts people - these guys are seriously evil.




posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
I'm in Category (n) I guess.
I had no idea who these loonies were until they drugged me senseless for about 6 months and tried to brainwash me before realising I was a lost cause and then branding me an "anti" which then entitled me to about 3 years of constant abuse until I managed to escape to Thailand.

(snip)

I never gave it much though until ten years later when I was being lead arounf West Malling in Kent wacked up to the eyeballs on Rohipnol performing "personality assessment" and "roleplay" exercises.


Necros, seriously, I am trying to understand the WHYs of all this. WHY they would do this, as you are not a politician, owner of some major media corporation, oil tycoon, etc? (I am assuming here so forgive me if I'm wrong about those things.) What is the point of going to all this trouble (wasting time, energy, financial resources, risk of public exposure, etc) to do this to people who have no grand-scale influence?

I don't get it. In any crime, there is usually a motive, or as humans, we would be no incentive to do it. At least from my experience.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here. I am trying to understand because my experience (although I never petitioned a lodge or anything) was VERY different. WHY is that?

Why would they hate you so much as to put you through that? Yet at the same time preach the exact opposite to the whole of society as well as their own members?

It just doesn't make any sense to me, and I have tried to make sense of your story, but something is definitely not adding up. Where are all the other folks that this happens to if there is some great conspiracy that Masons are drugging and brainwashing us all?



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 11:06 AM
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before realising I was a lost cause

I guest that sums it up quite well. I am sorry dude but you have some things going on in your head that you won't get answers for here. I didn't realize where you were comming from when I posted a question to you on another thread. Don't bother replying to it. I hope you are able to get some help with your personal demons and can one day rejoin the real world. I will pray for you.

lost in the midwest


[edit on 19-8-2005 by lost in the midwest]



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 11:31 AM
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Why go to all this trouble?
Maybe because THEY ENJOY IT.
The purpose of all the harassment to an individual is not because they did anything in particular or special, its quite the opposite.

Freemasonry for all the pomp and ceremony wil take anyone, it is a method of using the mass to control the minority.
It is comprised primarily of under-achievers who are led in by the whole "we only take the best" BS that they lay on.

A major philosophiocal component of Freemasonry is that in order to have unity you must have opposition.

To re-inforce the "we are superior" belief system that holds Masons together it is necesarry to pick out lone individuals for the group to attack.
This is similar to the "School Bully" principle.
Seriously most of these guys couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag on their own but get 20 or 30 of them together and they'll happily go after any lone individual, physically, underhandly, anyway they can but scattering as soon as even the slightest thing isn't going their way.

It has two purposes, firstly to create a sense of achievement in the group by the delusion that they are "secretly combatting evil, predudice etc..." when in fact they are actually behaving in the most cowardly and underhanded fashion imaginable.
The second purpose is to demonstrate what can happen to you if you break away from the group.
There are frequent "kick-outs" of "traitors" and their "punishments" are probably even more severe than anything I have ever had dished out to me.

Does this make sense to you...or maybe it even sounds familiar?



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by The Axeman
Sorry to ramble, but you asked.


My advice to those who have an open mind and are interested: Read, research, talk to Masons. The truth is much simpler than conspiracy theorists would have you believe.


Not rambling at all. This is exactly what I wanted: real stories from real people about their actual experiences and how they came to the decision that they did about the subject after doing their homework. Fabulous, and thanks for sharing.

So you and I both did research and became acquainted with other Masons and subsequently came to a supportive position of the Craft.

I am trying to figure out how the situation with Necros went so terribly wrong.

Anybody else out there have an experience like Necros?

Anybody...?

Or is he in a class by himself?



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
Freemasonry for all the pomp and ceremony wil take anyone, it is a method of using the mass to control the minority.
It is comprised primarily of under-achievers who are led in by the whole "we only take the best" BS that they lay on.


So you are saying they use the "elitist position" to appeal to slackers but in reality will take anyone who petitions.

This somehow doesn't make sense in itself.

If Masons are supposedly in positions of power and influencing society, how can that be due to an organization full of "Slackers"?

This also makes no sense.




A major philosophiocal component of Freemasonry is that in order to have unity you must have opposition.



By straight definition, that is correct, in my opinion. Unity itself would not be defined as such without the existence of the concept of "non-unity", right? It's how the human mind works: things are "defined" as much as by what they are as by what they are not. Would you agree with that?



Seriously most of these guys couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag on their own but get 20 or 30 of them together and they'll happily go after any lone individual, physically, underhandly, anyway they can but scattering as soon as even the slightest thing isn't going their way.



Why is that it didn't take the "wolf-pack" mentality to change my mind about them? I don't think the bullying technique works on everyone. I certainly never felt bullied to change my position on them. If anything, I felt like I was pestering them with my incessant questions.


The second purpose is to demonstrate what can happen to you if you break away from the group.
There are frequent "kick-outs" of "traitors" and their "punishments" are probably even more severe than anything I have ever had dished out to me.


Please clarify. Traitors to the organization? traitors to society, the "unity" mentality? what? I don't understand what you are saying here.



Does this make sense to you...or maybe it even sounds familiar?


Make sense? Mmmm no but I am trying to understand your point of view and am assuming for the time being that it is only a communication problem on our part. Even if I do not agree with you, I can still try to understand you.

Sound "familiar"? No. In what way would it? Do you mean in my personal situation? I've already stated that I had a positive experience regarding them so I don't know how what you are talking about would sound familiar to me. Am I misunderstanding your question?



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 12:14 PM
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Freemasonry is applicable at all levels - high-ranking masons occupy high ranking positions but the mentaity is still the same.
For every "Consistory of Princes" there are hundreds of Blue Lodges.
If you ever watch a session of Parliment you will see some of the same childish playground antics as you willl even see in lodge comprised of common criminals.
They like to harp on about all their great achievements but in truth your average mason is a working class under-educated slob like anybody else...maybe even a little more so.



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
Freemasonry is applicable at all levels - high-ranking masons occupy high ranking positions but the mentaity is still the same.
For every "Consistory of Princes" there are hundreds of Blue Lodges.
If you ever watch a session of Parliment you will see some of the same childish playground antics as you willl even see in lodge comprised of common criminals.
They like to harp on about all their great achievements but in truth your average mason is a working class under-educated slob like anybody else...maybe even a little more so.



OK but you still aren't answering the questions I pose to you.

Please re-read my posts if you are unsure as to what I am asking.



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
There are frequent "kick-outs" of "traitors" and their "punishments" are probably even more severe than anything I have ever had dished out to me.


Wow, you'd think people everywhere would be speaking out about these atrocities.


However, you seem to be a man on an island as far as this goes.

It seems like the only reason I've ever heard of for men who quit and go vocal is on the basis of them "gettin' the Religion" or something similar. Even then, no abuse, no harassment... Just sign this paper and you're out. Simple.

Your claims just plain don't hold up under scrutiny, Necros.

[edit on 8/19/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Neutral is what I have to be as a member of the staff. Although I will say that this is a vibrant forum.


But Thomas Crowne can shoot his mouth off all he wants, right?


Sorry, I couldn't let that slide. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Mods are people too.



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
I'm in Category (n) I guess.
I had no idea who these loonies were until they drugged me senseless for about 6 months and tried to brainwash me before realising I was a lost cause and then branding me an "anti" which then entitled me to about 3 years of constant abuse until I managed to escape to Thailand.



You left out the part where we bombed your toilet. must be getting sentimental in your old age.



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 02:15 PM
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MAYBE(???) the "Masons" that are persecuting MrNecros are some sinister illegitimate division. I've seen a lot of back-and-forth between a guy in Canada that claims to be a Mason and some Masons from elsewhere disputing his credentials. His version seems to be involved with Thelema and magick, but also borrows liberally from the traditional Masonic rituals.Some of it may boil down to who's a Mason and who isn't, maybe? I mean, does a particular group claiming to be Masonic really necessarily mean that they are? Whatever that means. I'm trying to keep as open a mind as I can here, without emptying it completely.



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Neutral is what I have to be as a member of the staff. Although I will say that this is a vibrant forum.


For the edification new members and anyone else who didn't know, intrepid, along with observer, DJDOHBOY, Pantha, Nygdan are the Secret Societies Forum moderators, and have responsibility to enforce the Terms & Conditions, any other Admin mandated regulations, and general discussion decorum and flow. By virtue of being a forum moderator, intrepid must remain neutral in order to effectively mediate any participating members, regardless of subject point of view or stance.


Originally posted by The Axeman
But Thomas Crowne can shoot his mouth off all he wants, right?



Yes, he can.

Thomas Crowne as a Super Moderator is free to roam about ATS, and can, and will enforce the same “Terms & Conditions, any other Admin mandated regulations, and general discussion decorum and flow,” regardless of forum. By the nature of his position (and any other Super Mod’s), some will perceive their (his) participation as “interference,” or an “official” position for ATS. Nothing could be further from the truth, I believe TC’s only "official" position is stretched out on the couch, beer and remote in hand… But I digress… There is an easy way to know if TC is working in his official capacity, one only need to look at the upper right hand corner of their screen… A white “U2U” is a sure sign of the ice man cometh…

Public Servant monkeys, not just for long lines at the DMV anymore…


[edit on 19/8/2005 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by yeahright
MAYBE(???) the "Masons" that are persecuting MrNecros are some sinister illegitimate division. I've seen a lot of back-and-forth between a guy in Canada that claims to be a Mason and some Masons from elsewhere disputing his credentials. His version seems to be involved with Thelema and magick, but also borrows liberally from the traditional Masonic rituals.Some of it may boil down to who's a Mason and who isn't, maybe? I mean, does a particular group claiming to be Masonic really necessarily mean that they are? Whatever that means. I'm trying to keep as open a mind as I can here, without emptying it completely.



We've already tried that.

There have even been Masons on this very board who offered (sincerely) to help him look into his *ahem* situation, and find the person or people responsible. "If they are Masons, they will be dealt with accordingly," he said.

Contrary to what some might think, Masons do police their own, in the sense that a brother can be brought up on Masonic charges for un-Masonic conduct. Doesn't matter about legality here, any brother can file charges against another (even the Master), and if the offense is serious, they will have a Masonic trial in lodge and the brother will be expelled, and I imagine in some cases turned over to the authorities. Perhaps ML can elaborate or correct any inaccuracies.

No, MrNecros will have no part of that. His aim is to slander the institution of Masonry, and he is not above posting flat-out lies to do it. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt at first, but all you have to do is go back and read his posts and you will see what I mean.



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by yeahright
MAYBE(???) the "Masons" that are persecuting MrNecros are some sinister illegitimate division. I've seen a lot of back-and-forth between a guy in Canada that claims to be a Mason and some Masons from elsewhere disputing his credentials. His version seems to be involved with Thelema and magick, but also borrows liberally from the traditional Masonic rituals.


Well, I did pose the possibility that Necros had perhaps irritated another group and they were the ones responsible for what he claims has happened to him, however, I'm sure he does not consider that option.

The issue with the Canadian member with the questionable credentials situation is really very simple once several factors are considered:

1a. I have seen other Canadian Masons post on this site that are up to the typical standard that one would expect from a legitimate Brother. So it's not an issue of Canadian vs. American. American Masons recognize their Canadian brothers all the time.

1b. The behaviour and language demonstrated by said member is not up to the typical Masonic standard of conduct period, no matter what his nationality.

2. This member claims to be of an order that is considered "Clandestine" and not recognized by regular Masons. At least to me, this is not so much of an issue regarding legitimacy of ritual or worthiness as a member of the Craft, but you would expect that this individual would at least display the knowledge, tact and courtesy typically associated with folks that join this TYPE of organization, even if they are a "clandestine" version of it. Again, this member does not.

3. I have yet to see him offer any type of identifying information to his "fellow brethren" such as his lodge or anything so that what he says can be verified. If he is indeed a legitimate member and any kind of "representative of his organization" (as I believe all Masons are conscious of being whether it is intentional or not), he is giving his rite a very bad name here at ATS, but that's just my opinion.

4. If you SAW the calibre of his posts on other sites where he likes to throw his so-called Masonic "weight" around, you'd be appalled. His maturity level is consistent with someone who just took their PSATs and is waiting with baited breath for their official driving permit. (Make sure Mom is in the passenger seat!)

From what I've seen, there is no doubt in my mind that this person is not a member of any Masonic-oriented organization, clandestine or otherwise.



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 02:43 PM
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His version seems to be involved with Thelema and magick, but also borrows liberally from the traditional Masonic rituals.

Just a quick history lesson. Shortly after the founding of the Grand Lodge in England (1717) the rituals were leaked to the public and have been repeatly leaked through out the years. There are hundreds of books with the rituals in them. Freemasonry was a hot ideal at its founding and many groups have tried to piggy back on its sucess. Just because someone calls themselves a mason doesn't make it so. This is why the Grand Lodges of the world have worked so hard to reconize each other to try to avoid all the confusion. In the same token No one has total ownership of the term of Freemason. The best guide I can give you is to judge a tree by its fruit. People will always try to find short cuts, that is why parts of our ritual has ended up in groups like the OTO. Being a Freemason is in the heart and head and not in your membership. I doubt that any real Freemason group would have done what has be claimed, But I can only speak for myself and from my personal knowlege.


lost in the midwest



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Public Servant monkeys, not just for long lines at the DMV anymore…


Alright, I stand corrected. It seems to me however, that by virtue of his position, TC can and should remain neutral. I realize that this is not the case, and far be it from me to tell him what he should or shouldn't do.

Apologies, TC. I meant no disrespect. In hindsight I could have kept that comment to myself.

Thank you for the elucidation, MM, I hadn't realized that Super Mods could have and voice their opinions, whatever they might be, while forum Mods could have them, so long as they are neutral.

I spend enough time here to know where everyone stands. Just struck me as odd. *shrugs* Whaddya do?



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 02:49 PM
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Certainly didn't mean to use the Canadian reference as perjorative. (Luv Canada & all things Canadian). I know he'd scanned some documentation that looked legit, but that doesn't mean much either. Could have Starfleet Command docs that look good, too. (Pardon me, the Gen Con thing is in town and I lunched next to some Romulans, or something).

The sad thing is, SOMETHING happened to that guy, even if it's all in his head. I just hope he can work it out to the point where he can get some peace. Life's way too short, and difficult, to have much of it devoted to imaginary issues.



posted on Aug, 21 2005 @ 10:30 AM
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Dr. Lawrence Pazder
Perhaps Mr. Necros should contact the above named professional. seems they were made for each other,
although Michelle might object.

Why is that it didn't take the "wolf-pack" mentality to change my mind about them?
I take exception to the " Wolf Pack " remark. Unless you have raised and/or lived in close proximity
to Wolves your comparisons are based on preconcieved notions and prejudices that have nothing to
do with fact and reality.

quote: The second purpose is to demonstrate what can happen to you if you break away from the group.
There are frequent "kick-outs" of "traitors" and their "punishments" are probably even more severe than anything I have ever had dished out to me.
Please provide credible sources for this statement. To MY knowledge all you have presented is unfounded
charges of a " Blown up toilet and a Canine with the Sh*ts".

Thomas Crowne as a Super Moderator is free to roam about ATS, and can, and will enforce the same “Terms & Conditions, any other Admin mandated regulations, and general discussion decorum and flow,” regardless of forum.
Based of course on HIS pre-concieved beliefs and religious prejudices.

Apologies, TC. I meant no disrespect. In hindsight I could have kept that comment to myself.
WHY?



posted on Aug, 21 2005 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by stalkingwolf
Apologies, TC. I meant no disrespect. In hindsight I could have kept that comment to myself.
WHY?


Perhaps not kept it to myself, but worded it differently? "Shoot his mouth off" has somewhat of an antagonistic ring to it, and while I still think Intrepid should be allowed to post his opinion on the subject, I understand the politics behind it. Doesn't mean I agree.

All I mean is I could have been less hostile with my comment.



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