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UFOs and Aliens - Do you want to Believe?

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posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 05:47 AM
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I started this thread because I don't have any concrete or convincing proof that life outside of ours exists. Yet something compels me to feel there is something 'out' there (besides us) in this vast universe. I have had very interesting and vivid dreams that I don't understand, but have never had any 'real' encounters or any sightings.

Therefore I pose to you this question - facts aside - do you WANT to believe in Aliens and UFOs? Do you think it is important to believe? And why.

Would love to hear your reasons.




posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 05:59 AM
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I have no reason to want to believe in UFOs or Abduction. But during my time looking into something dealing with it, all kinds of encounters come to light.

One cannot dispute Shuttle sightings on tape as one can't dispute the frenzy those particualr STS missions became when the public seen the live Orbital transmissions of a couple Orbs that I can't describe how they flew?

It was freaky. One thing I put together, they cannot fly in a half moon kind of way..just up/down/left or right. Or left-down, left down type of manuvers to achieve a crescent shape trajectory.

Dallas



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 06:04 AM
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Well here is a question for you Dallas,

If one believes they are here to observe us, then what is their reason for not exposing themselves to us yet? Sufficient time has passed and they must know of our reticence and fear.

This brings up a few more questions such as: Does this mean they don't exist and the things we are attributing to them are actually government prototypes and/or cutting edge technology that is being tested. The infinitely scarier question is what if they are of the 'War of the Worlds' variety.

Could it be that is why only some see and others (like me) don't.

I personally like the idea that something besides us could exist. It puts a different spin on the universe.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 06:20 AM
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Originally posted by nikelbee


Could it be that is why only some see and others (like me) don't.


I think that is just coincidence, those who have seen it were at the right place at the right time. They were not chosen to see the UFO or something, they just happen to be there. At least thats how I see it.

Of course there are those who have been abducted, in their case the UFO did come to them. But I am not sure I want to be one of those. If you believe the reports, aliens are not that nice, poking around, implanting stuff in your body, taking your DNA for some genetic experiments...



I personally like the idea that something besides us could exist. It puts a different spin on the universe.


Indeed



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 06:21 AM
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That depends on which race of EBEs. Nordics, Tall Greys and Hall's EBE contacts may be in contact with at leat the US Gov since at least /49. Others and possibly them as well may be hostile in overall intention.

I think there are a lot gov prototypes. yet I say that in the sense of the last 30 years, pre /70 I'm not at all sure what was seen in the air Dancing around had anything to do with covert airforce machines.

Laugh - "War of the Worlds" variety..Gazrok's better at answering that one.

Others only see and not you?, .. no I think it depends how often a person looks up instead of at their feet.

Dallas



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 06:25 AM
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all you have to do is look at sky on a clear night and the amount of things moving leads you to believe that we are most definitly not alone



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 06:38 AM
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Like the poster in X Files:

I want to believe

I hope that ET will cure us of all our ills (including greed) and show us the door to the universe



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 06:57 AM
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Yes but they might shiny satelites revolving around this ball, so don't believe we are being invaded by the little devils each time you look up in the night sky..

Dallas



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 08:45 AM
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Here's my ish with the alien visitor concept:

As far as we know (and that's a HUGE caveat), travel from one star system to another is completely impractical and uneconomic in terms of the material and organic resources required (IF possible). While the desire of an alien race to expand it's frontiers would be entirely understandable were the purpose colonization and/or invasion; there have been "UFO" sightings at least since graphic reports in biblical texts describing "fiery beasts" appearing in the sky. Still, let's assume for the sake of consensus that true UFOs have been sighted only since the early part of this century, that is 50-75 years of repeated visits from said aliens without any sign of colonization or invasion. Do you seriously believe that an alien race is going to be so interested in us that it will expend insane resources bending space (or the alternative - over 100 years of inter-system travel) just to observe us and peform the occasional anal probe? I can't bring myself to believe that.

I would be more willing to believe that UFOs are either top secret bleeding edge technology, or (less likely) our remote evolutionary descendants travelling back in time to examine their origins. We as humans possess a remarkable degree of self-absorption and ingenuity. Suppose we survive another million years on this planet, which has a life-expectancy of at least another billion years. A million years from now it is entirely conceivable that we will have harnessed the technology required to bend space and allow interplanetary travel. If you can bend space, then you can also probably bend time since time and space are bound. If we've learnt to travel along the time continuum, then our natural self-absorption might easily lead us to travel back and perform all manner of biological study on our remote ancestors. Believe me if I had the opportunity to "probe" a homo habilis, I would. More importantly, I would happily devote countless man-hours to studying their social and cultural behaviours, etc.

Another point - all reports of alien appearance indicate humanoid form. What are the chances that the one or two alien race close enough to reach us evolved into a humanoid form. Not high. However, a million years from now, we are likely to look as strange as these so-called aliens do...



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 09:42 AM
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yes dallas there is shiny satelites in the sky but i wouldn imagine they are the 1s that change speed and direction c,mon tell me you have seen things you cant explain in the sky all you have to do is look



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 09:43 AM
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Another point - all reports of alien appearance indicate humanoid form. What are the chances that the one or two alien race close enough to reach us evolved into a humanoid form. Not high. However, a million years from now, we are likely to look as strange as these so-called aliens do...


Actually the chances are quite high. Convergent evolution shows us that if two species occupy a similar climate (in this case world) the chances of them looking similar even though they are not related are quite high. Some scientists believe that another technologically advanced civilization would be full of being not unlike ourselves. They would have to have appendages for controlling and manipulating for tools and such. They would most likely us legs to walk and arms as well. The most likely will have a head of some sort and the same sense organs such as eyes, ears and possibly mouths.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 09:52 AM
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Fair point, DaTerminator. I actually knew that, but somehow selectively forgot... Memory wipe, perhaps?



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 02:56 PM
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In answer to the concerns I raised regarding the logic behind alien visitation, I came across this excellent paper:

www.rfreitas.com...



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 03:23 PM
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I spend allot of time modeling and animating/rendering aliens and ufos but I have no inclination to believe one way or the other. Obviously I am fascinated by the creative subject matter, but I am able to maintain a very objective view on the subject. There are far too many people authenticating or willing to accept questionable material as real.

There is no bigger turn off than watching or reading zealots or specialists pushing or supporting hoaxed work. As an outsider, its those types that do the idea of UFOs/Aliens more harm than good. After 30 years of reading/watching rehashed and reworked stories, its clear to me that there a great number of people willing to exercise fantasy over fact. Fantasy and escapism are not bad things. Taking questionable facts and sources and promoting them as legitimate is.

[edit on 18-8-2005 by nullster]



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by nullster
Fantasy and escapism are not bad things. Taking questionable facts and sources and promoting them as legitimate is.

[edit on 18-8-2005 by nullster]


Well said


Regarding eralta post, I can appreciate your post, however, we can't assume we know how 'their'(should they use them) ships ' expend insane resources' for we barely have scrapped an atom off the tip of the iceberg as far as propulsion goes. We still govern ourselves with laws the do not permit such achievements in propulsion. Who knows in a thousand years or so we may find we don't need ships, the only reason we think we need ships is because of the meat sack we carry around atm - our bodies. That is another thread entirely.

Anyway.. back to the thread


I don't think it is important to believe in ETI however like any other being I think it is important to understand them - perhaps learn from them or use them as guides to better ourselves, that is of course is if they can offer ways to better ourselves. There may be War like ET out there for which I think mankind, although still not accepting it, has seen the horrors of war.
All in all though, should we meet and co exist, after the 'novelty' of finally confirming we are not alone (mass acceptance) i think we'll find ourselves pretty much in same place we are now - just with a bigger family, perhaps with better toys and a better understanding of how things inter relate. We will still love and cherish family and friends and hold dear all things that matter and are relevant in our lives. I hope our materilaistic ways will be a thing of the past. No doubt we'll have more respect for ourselves, planet and extended family and understanding and assisting others will be paramount.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 10:35 PM
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Nullster

Very well said. I agree with a lot of it. I think the best thing to do is keep an open mind while at the same time being sceptical of those who would deceive others and themselves.

I had a powerful dream once where I was interrogated and asked the following question...

Do you believe?

I tell you honestly it was the hardest thing I have ever been asked and one of the most life-altering experiences ever.

The dream itself is too complex and powerful to go into in this thread, but the question was asked to me by a being or a collective of beings that I never saw or physically heard. I just felt the voice floating inside my head, probing for a response that seemed (at the time) very important. I must say that I've thought that it could have been myself in the dream asking myself a question. Talk about your schizophrenic dreams! But for many reasons that again are too complex to go into here, I choose to think it was something/someone else – a greater power if you will - asking me.

As a child I was brought up in a very religious home. I myself am not religious and have not been for many years, but conditioning kicked in (as it does) and my automatic response after the dream was that it must have been a God or even Gods as I felt it was more than one – a collective if you will. There was something about the authority of it, the importance and the necessity to ask things of me that made it feel that it wasn't just a random question.

It also seemed that of all the questions in the universe, the one that was asked was the hardest one for me to answer.

Had 'they' asked 'Do you love?' That would have been easy. Are you loyal? Are you honest? Are you selfish? Have you helped those in need? All again, much easier to answer, but those questions were never asked.

‘Do you believe' bothered me as I think it was posed because it required that extra leap that I am often unwilling to take. In essence 'it' was asking me if I had faith. But at the same time it wasn't asking about religion, God, the supernatural or any of those other things that tend to get in the way.

How do I know this? Well the question wasn't - do you believe in… (insert religion or deity here) it was simply, ‘Do you believe?’ For educated, intelligent people a tad on the cynical side, this one is a toughie.

Also since it wasn't verbal, semantics didn't get in the way - no problems with thinking about the words or their many meanings. It was straight message/no language no interpretation problems. My interrogators were smart that way
It was a simple naked question posed to me very simply.

I remember I choked up in the dream because from the bottom of my heart I realised I wanted to just say yes but I couldn't. For a few brief seconds I even considering lying. But then I realised as soon as I thought it that *it* knew. I think *it* even sort of smiled. Obviously I discarded the lying idea quickly when I realised I couldn't get away with it.

But it was more than that. I didn't want to lie. I knew I was going to fail some sort of test and just the way they/it asked me, so patiently, so kindly, so understanding of *me* as a unique person, made me filled for a few glorious seconds with utter happiness: a range of emotions that I can't even begin to describe. I felt some sort of drug-like induced euphoria and I didn't want that to end. I didn't want to break the connection by saying I didn’t believe. To say that the emotions I felt were peace and tranquillity would be to misrepresent what I felt. The closest thing I can come up with is acceptance. But that doesn't come close to the magnitude of depth. It was like knowing I was protected and safe no matter what. For all I know, this may have been a trick - I really don't know. I was too emotionally wobbly to be guarded.

Again this is why I attributed the interrogator at the time as some supreme being that could read my mind and search within me to know me enough to ask about my biggest failing... either that or they were really good at probing.
The question and the probing took about 30 seconds - yes I was aware of time. But within me it was like a lifetime. I remember thinking that this must be the way people describe your life flashing before your eyes. It is possible to go through your life in lightening flash bursts like a super quick DVD fast-forward. I did this and at the end of it - almost resigned at what I knew was certain failure - a voice (my own I think) said, 'yes’ very quietly. And that was that.

Anyway - I've thought about it for a long time (as you can see) and I have come to many conclusions but only two that I will post here.

1. For whatever reason, I had this dream and was asked The Question. After the dream I went all weird and accosted my family, friends and even perfect strangers. Asking them the same question, I got a lot of startled, scary looks and reactions from loved ones. I think they felt I underwent some cult thing and went all born-again creepy. Anyway, I realised by asking, that my question was not necessarily their question. Let me explain...

I think there is a question out there like this for everyone. A question that is so unique to you that it renders you troubled or haunted because you know that if anything could be boiled down to an essence - this would be. Sort of like your gene-specific question. One so rooted within your DNA that it is yours uniquely like your fingerprints.

Anyway - This one is mine. And mine might be easy for you to answer but yours might be easy for me. For example - some may find 'believing' very easy but loving very hard. Mine has always been belief and it is one I still struggle with.

2. Believing means many things. I don't think being gullible or convincing oneself of something they want or need to believe is the same thing. I read/hear about so many things that are simply blind convictions with no actual proof or faith behind them - religion, visitations, sighting, abductions, etc, you name it. Most of the time they can be attributed to fear, misunderstanding and the ability of our minds to do some powerful crazy things in strange situations. How we distinguish between truth and projection is highly debatable. I am not even going to talk about reality, as that can be very limiting. I am more inclined to believe someone who has had something happen to them who can articulate the life altering processes w/out access to legitimate proof than someone with oodles of photos and/or other tangible proof. Physical doesn’t almost mean real because at the heart of it whatever you believe has to be built on the basis of faith and then backed up. Not the other way around.

Well this is starting to sound convoluted so I'll stop.

I am not discrediting anyone btw - I love that people can share their ideas and experiences. Thanks for reading and keep the posts coming.



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 09:08 AM
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Do I want to believe other intelligent life is out there? YES

Do I want to believe that such life will eventually meet us? YES

Do I want it proven that aliens have been visiting us for decades, even centuries? Oddly enough, no.

Why?

Because if the conclusion from the evidence is correct, it means that whatever their intentions, they do not seem overtly friendly. Luckily, the same evidence also points away from conquest at least, but still, their secrecy and abduction strategies certainly don't bode well....

I'd much rather it be shown that aliens have NOT been visiting us all along, and that any actual contact be the first, and a friendly contact.

Sadly though, if one examines the evidence, it seems they HAVE been here for a while, maintaining secrecy, for whatever intentions they have.



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 11:29 AM
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Gazrak

Well yes, that is partially the problem that leads me to hold back on the idea of ETs. I would hate to have been an abductee and have to live with the sense of violation to the point of feeling like a pariah. As someone posted earlier, the sighting bit is a little easier to explain - You just look up. Still this isn't all that easy. There have been many people trying who don't see anything. Is it purely based on timing and luck or something else?

The abductions and secrecy is another matter. Why do 'they' feel the need to experiment and test on others and why have they been doing it for a number of years? Should they not have results by now? I could understand not making contact and observing until you are ready; but when you interact with humans you are making a point of introducing doubt and fear into whatever other experience they have had. Could it be that they just don't care what we think?

And are these abduction really real and not part of something else?



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 12:08 PM
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Could it be that they just don't care what we think?


If the behavior truly is as the accounts say, then I'd have to agree with that idea....



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 12:24 PM
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Could it be that they just don't care what we think?

I had this very argument with a friend of mine not long ago. He suggested that alien intervention, in the form of visitations and abductions, may in fact be for our own benefit and we are too ignorant to see it. He compared it to a sick animal that has to be taken to the vet. The animal may be scared and confused and angry and not wish to go, but it is for its own good. My friend reasoned that perhaps aliens were intervening to help us in some way that we, like the animal, were unaware of.

To counter, I pointed out that the very reason the animal would be afraid is because it does not understand what is happening. If we could communicate with the animal, we would no doubt reassure it, explain what was happening and tell it that it would be all right. It is this attempt at compassion that I believe is lacking in most abduction cases. Humans are intelligent animals. If aliens are, as we must believe, far more advanced then we, they must possess the ability to communicate with us in some fashion. Humans will still try to comfort animals which we feel are beneath us even though we cannot communicate with them directly - we will pat a dog while it waits at the vet or talk to it in soothing tones. From most abduction accounts I have read, it seems that aliens care not at all for our comfort or well-being. Increasingly I find myself reasoning that, if aliens are indeed visiting the Earth and conducting such operations, then they are truly hostile.




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