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OP/ED: The Face of American Grief

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posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 12:11 AM
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... an angry mother who has given her son for her country.


She didn't give her son for her country. He gave himself for his country. He WILLINGLY volunteered for service, knowing there was potential to die. Had he died in a training accident would she go through the same protest? No!

She's doing it because she wants the attention and the media is buying right into it.




posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 01:00 AM
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I'm all for protesting, dont get me wrong. And this woman, she probably lit a fire under us all for a push for more answers and protests. Thats peachy, have at it.. its about time IMO..

But to get up infront of those camera's, and call our President a terrorist, to call him a hypocrit, and claim everything he says is bull#() isnt the way to go about it.

I've kept my mouth shut about this whole ordeal for quite sometime. I've refrained from posting my opinions.. The most I've done is add news articles to the discussion to get more people going..

The whole reason I kept quiet is because I was undecided.

Sure, organizations may be pulling her strings, but they've finally gotten a chance to voice their opinions in the media, so I've kept quiet..

Sure, her son died, and thats a tradegy on its own, and she has every right to vent and be angry.. so I've kept quiet..

And people showed up to protest near W's ranch.. it's a free country and we can do that.. so I've kept quiet..

But to call our President a Terrorist (and essentially, all the "terrorists" doing his job terrorizing .. ie: soldiers) while wearing a tshirt that says "I support the troops" is just down right ignorant.

And yeah, I know, I know.. "You can support the troops and not the war".. try telling THE TROOPS that.

This lady was on the right track.. she was demanding answers. She was demanding information about the war that we should ALL know. And she was supporting the troops in her crusade to get this information..

.. and then she spit in their faces

And btw, drudge isnt "smearing" her reputation as moveon.org claims. He posting something thats a shock to many people.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 01:08 AM
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I think people should take a look at this.

Pat Buchanans Column

There is a real danger that the Bush Presidency goes into a stall. It is losing momentum and public support and that will go on until *something* happens.

A brewing civil war in the Republican party over 2008 leaves him with a lame duck congress.

The Democrats are fast off the mark on using Illegal immigration first. Frist has shot himself with Stem Cell talk. DeLay? Ethics, enough said. Cheneys got one foot in the grave. Gingrich is loathed by many, as is McCain.

I have to agree with Buchanan again. Nov 3rd is the day the Republican party began to self destruct.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 01:15 AM
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Yes, the battle I spoke of in an OP/ED is comming to pass. Already within the smaller state parties there have been several internal battles over seemingly simple things such as rules committies and the like. The Frist defection may be the first in a string. I think alot of political "Capital" was spent and lost over the Schaivo affair.

As Nerdling points out "Stall" is an apt discription. Many will begin to bail of the ambitious second term agenda if there is a hint of it. Frist was just the first IMHO. More will follow if momentum builds.

THis was a classic error. if he had spent 5 minutes with her, it would have defused the whole situation.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 01:24 AM
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Agree with you 100% Fred. A five minute closed door meeting would completely defuse the situation.

Perhaps we will see a meeting. Either way the damage has been done and America is once again talking about the war.

This time there is no Kerry, no forged documents. The figure is a single mother who lost her son. A figure that you can't attack without being heavily frowned upon.

As for Bill "Cat Killer" Frist, he's about to get a slap from Trent Lott, who is saying that Frist "betrayed him" in his new book.

Nobody eats their own like Republicans in a contest!



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 01:41 AM
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Maybe George will come out and say, "abragado!" like he did a few years ago when interviewed by a news program.

Anyone remember that? The interviewer confronted him with a French quote and his response was, "Abragado. See? I am bilingual too."

(Abragado is Mexican/Spanish for lawyer.)



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 01:45 AM
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Oh Oh Oh I just couldn't pass this one up.

"Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?"

-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 01:57 AM
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Originally posted by Nerdling
As for Bill "Cat Killer" Frist, he's about to get a slap from Trent Lott, who is saying that Frist "betrayed him" in his new book.


I have not seen a copy of it yet, but it is supposed to be ugly.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 04:02 AM
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Originally posted by QuietSoul

No reason ever justifies a war.. any war.


Do you not think the Declaration of Independence did a pretty good job of justifying the American Revolution? Or how about the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor as a justification for declaring war on Japan?

I take it you don't think the invasion of Afganistan was justified?

If your answer to all of the above is NO then there is something seriously wrong with you.

[edit on 18-8-2005 by Astronomer68]



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 05:40 AM
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Originally posted by Nerdling
I think people should take a look at this.

Interesting, Nerdling.
Anyhow, here is something that I found rather disturbing myself.
This [below] is a picture that has been making its rounds via the internet since MoveOn.org has been orchestrating these candlelight vigils: this picture is of Hollywood actor Richard Dreyfuss. Look at his sign and what it mentions. Question: how does a pro-abortion activist justify holding up a sign that says "Bring our children home," yet pisses on anti-abortion activists who hold signs saying "Let our children live?"


Just a weeeeeeee bit hypocritical, wouldn't you say?
Probably not to some of you, being I already know what most of your 'a' typical response are going to be.....




There is a real danger that the Bush Presidency goes into a stall. It is losing momentum and public support and that will go on until *something* happens.

Really, Nerdling?
Like what?
That Bush might not get elected again in the 2008 presidential elections or *something*?
That maybe he'll get impeached? Doubtful.
Just what is so politically dangerous here?
That it jeopardizes the Republican controlled areas of Washington?
Tell you what, the only thing that will happen is that you Democrat liberals will continue to hope and wish, thats all.



A brewing civil war in the Republican party over 2008 leaves him with a lame duck congress.

More of that hoping and wishing, but let me offer my very best to the DNC in 2006 and 2008, cause anything has got to be better than the current DNC situation, huh?




The Democrats are fast off the mark on using Illegal immigration first. Frist has shot himself with Stem Cell talk. DeLay? Ethics, enough said. Cheneys got one foot in the grave. Gingrich is loathed by many, as is McCain.

Yes, after years of decline within the DNC, I see that you are already cheerleading and stumping for 2008. How wonderful, eh?
Tell you what, get rid of the label that the DNC currently has, the party of hate and anger, with nothing to contribute but complaints and hostility, and maybe, just maybe, the DNC will have something worthwhile as a platform in 2008 that will allow them back into the White House. Amazing that the only thing that the DNC can currently best offer as a hopeful chance in 2008 is something from the Clinton Legacy: Hillary.




I have to agree with Buchanan again. Nov 3rd is the day the Republican party began to self destruct.

Well, thats sad isn't it, but certainly can't be as sad as being a Democrat liberal and refusing to realize and recognize that the DNC has already imploded and self-destructed?







seekerof

[edit on 18-8-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 06:42 AM
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I have a request. Apparently there is a list of issues out there that if you have a certain opinion on you automatically forfeit the right to have a self-selected opinion on another - completely unrelated - issue. I did not realize this. Since I tend to resent unforeclosed rules and lack of transparency. I demand that the list of black-ball opinions on each and every issue be disclosed immediately. I'm going to pick the topics I can still have an opinion on without being accused of hypocrisy - let's just call it a Cafeteria-style opinion selection.

Meanwhile, I've started a new consulting firm - Optimize, Inc. - which will be providing guidance in optimizing your opinion selections so that you retain the maximum number of issues on which you can still have an opinion - even if it's not yours. We'll offer such services as:

* Realizing arbitrage in your opinion options
* Hot issues to just avoid at all cost
* Prioritizing opinions - which ones get you the most of your own voice
* How to avoid being labeled a "hypocrite" (the real criteria used and more!)
* 33 ways to say pro-choice without ever really saying it
* How your opinion on gays will hamstring your choices on the War on Terrorism

and many, many more!

Remember, it's not what you think on an issue - it's whether you're thinking the correct way. We'll help you either think that way - or look like you do.

Service packages start as low at $29.99.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 07:18 AM
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Ahh but quietsoul...the president is a terrorist....ALL war is an act of terrorism, a prolonged act of terrorism...the smirking little bastard is a hyprocrite, he calls himself a Christian but he has forgotten (or never learned) the one salient teaching of Jesus and that is compassion...it isn't just a convient tag to attach to the word conservative but an actual approach to life and it is ultimately spiritual in nature... and he produces more bull# than the biggest bull I ever saw. Like the bumpersticker says..."If his mouth is moving he's lying." This man makes Nixon look as straightforward and honest as could be...no small task. As for The Drudge Report he did indeed start the smear against this woman by cutting and pasting comments of hers in several articles and put them together to look like she supported Bush and changed her tune it has been doucmented and has been traced out on mediamatters, they even show the original articles and what drudge did to them....even if she did change her tune, besides the old chestnut that it is a woman's perogrative, as our souls process our experinces and feelings we do indeed change...then there is mush loosebowels, sorry my pet name for rush limbaugh LOL, has come out and claims that she has made up her whole story...if that isn't not only a smear but the sorriest piece of crap I ever heard I don't know what is. As for the woman being manuiplated by MoveOn etal...if Bush had had the balls to met with her in the first place this would have never gotten as big as it has...she hasn't created this movement, we have been here since before the war started protesting what we felt (and feel) as an unnecessary act of aggression. If Bush was planning an immediate pull out and a lone pro-war protester had shown up on his doorstep like she has, the media who is always desperate to report anything would have latched onto them as well and all the pro-war groups would have gloomed on also...it is part and pracel of the media/political circus we call public discourse these days.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 08:42 AM
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If the War is legit, legal, etc.

Why not just give a debate on live TV?

One night is all it would take and get the anti-war movement to bring people forward to ask questions from an audiance and allow the President to respond?



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 09:43 AM
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Is the anti-war movement and Mrs. Sheehan in particular really "anti-war" or are they "anti-Bush"? That seems like a fair question. Not that you can't be both, but some of the statements made make me wonder, what is the reall issue here? Is the protesting all about saving American lives or is it about an idealism that lost the last election? Also a legitimate question. With Sheehan I'd have to say that you can't be sure. Her statements seem to conflict with the sentiments the media is trying to say she has. How can a grieving mother (who is also going thru a divorce) pay for her month-long vigils in Crawford? Are there groups paying for her protests, or at least making them possible? How can any parent whose lost a child in Iraq and still supports the mission there get this kind of media attention?

Given the task in Iraq, I think it's about time to stop calling this conflict a "Bush war". It will most likely go on well after he is setting up his presidential library in Crawford. In truth, isn't what we are seeing in Iraq now fast becoming a very long effort? Whether things end up the way we hope they do or not, is the responsibility America has there now even close to over yet? Looking at a conflict that we lost, was Vietnam over after Johnson left office? Nope, it went on for years after that and under an administration affilliated with a different political party. Looking at a war we helped win, did WWII end when Roosevelt died? Didn't it need to go on untill it was won regardless of who was in the white house and who led us into it? It may have been Pres. Bush that led us into Iraq, but it is only Iraqi soldiers and civillians that can lead us out. How much support is Mrs Sheehan, Gold Star, MoveOn.org etc etc. etc. giving to the Iraqi's who are actually trying to make progress? That's a fair question, as is asking why she gets so much attention, who is using the spot light on her to push their own agendas, what makes her anguish more compelling than the stories of soldiers who are terribly wounded but try desperatly to get back to their units in Iraq?

IS MRS. SHEEHAN'S PLIGHT GOING TO BRING THE TROOPS HOME ANY SOONER, OR HAS SHE BECOME A PROPOGANDA TOOL FOR ANTI-WAR GROUPS, FAR-LEFT IDEALOGUES, AND THE INSURGENTS IN IRAQ THAT KILLED HER SON? Is Mrs. Sheehan actually helping prolong the conflict? What would end the Iraq occupation sooner, a divided America or Iraqi's and Americans united? How valuable is the media attention given to Mrs. Sheehan to the car bombers in Iraq? I know alot of people will think I'm saying something aweful here, but in reality isn't that a legitimate question?

One last question, what does this do for morale in Iraq, how are soldiers who are getting sent there now sopposed to feel about it? IMHO, a soldier leaving for Iraq today runs the risk of not only dying, but also becoming a tool for the moveon.org crowd, whether the troop wants to used that way or not.

I think those are fair questions. Some might not like them, some may call it an "attack" on the woman, but aren't questions about the impact of Mrs. Sheehan and the Anti-War groups a legitimate query? What about the motives? I think so.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 11:45 AM
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The thing is, if this were a mother out there waving the flag, screaming about how much she supported the war, how she only wished she had more children to go fight in this war, and it was all over the news, she would certainly be the media darling and probably adopted by the Fox network. Would anyone even raise the question of her being used by the pro war folks? Everytime anyone gets media attention like Cindy Sheehan for their stance on this war; their being shown as a brainless person who is being used by the anti-war movement. But, if someone comes out all pro-war and waving the flag, aw what a patriot says the media. Does no one see what is happening here by the way the media is presenting this? If you can't rip the message apart rip the person presenting it apart by making them look like a brainless idiot whom no one in their right mind would want to be associated with in any way.

I support what this woman is doing, she is exercising her right to free speech and standing up for what she believes under this kind of pressure, thats a patriot, someone willing to stand up and raise the voice of dissent, whether you agree with her or not, one has to admire the strength it takes to do that.



[edit on 18-8-2005 by goose]



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by goose
The thing is if this were a mother out there waving the flag and screaming about how much she supported the war and how she only wished she had more children to go fight in this war and it was all over the news, she would certainly be the media darling and probably adopted by the Fox network. Would anyone even raise the question of her being used by the pro war folks? Everytime anyone gets media attention like Cindy Sheehan for their stance on this war their being shown as a brainless person who is being used by the anti-war movement but if someone come out all pro-war and waving the flag, aw what a patriot says the media? Does no one see what is happening here, by the media if you can't rip the message apart rip the person presenting it apart by making them look like a brainless idiot whom no one in their right mind would want to be associated with in any way.

I support what this woman is doing, she is exercising her right to free speech and standing up for what she believes under this kind of pressure, thats a patriot, someone willing to stand up and raise the voice of dissent, whether you agree with her or not one has to admire the strength it takes to do that.

[edit on 18-8-2005 by goose]


No goose, the thing is Mrs. Sheehan is making anti-bush comments more than anti-war comments and therein lies her success at gaining support. There are plenty of people who don't support warfare but they get very little attention because they don't make very good ads for 527 political groups. Freedom of speech and a redress of grievences is one thing, media attention and manipulation by political groups is another. Look past the "right" to say these things, I ask "why". She is well within her rights, but that doesn't make her comments the right ones or without alterior motives or un-manipulated. Anyone who thinks this is a "shoot-the-messenger" deal here is doing themselves a disservice, there is legitimate criticism and questions out there.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 05:28 PM
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I totally disagree, the media is doing a number on her, reporting she said things she did not say. Perhaps it would be best to go directly to her website for her denials and to see what she really said.

crawfordupdate.blogspot.com...
an excerpt from her website diary, go to this link to read it all and more

I was on Anderson Cooper and it was pretty good. Anderson didn't ask me about the Israel thing because he had checked with Nightline. But he followed with a talk show, hate monger host, Darrell Ankarlo who I have had problems with in the past. He said that I have said that I believe all of the troops are murderers and I have never said that, either. Darrell Ankarlo wanted me to be on his show, but I don?t think so.


CindySheehan's diary :: ::


Another thing is that the Israel thing has not died. I did not say that my son died for Israel. I have never said it, I don?t think it, I don?t believe it. It is just another lie, smear tactic from the right. It needs to die right now. It?s not the truth.



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 02:20 AM
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I can't believe this, I give proof this woman is being misquoted and basically attacked by the pro-war movement and not one response.



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 02:38 AM
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.
Talk about hypocritical Seekerof,

How can you call yourself pro-life yet support the mass murder of 40,000 to 100,000 human beings not to mention the multiple numbers of maimed and wounded?

You pro-lifers just want more human beings so you can kill them in pointless wars.

Don't you just love the filth and mud slinging by the so-called moral right?

America please wake up.
These lives will be counted against you.
Are you going to wait for another 100,000 lives to be lost before you realize the people running this war never want it to end?

Haliburton is making billions.
Bush can wrap himself in a blood soaked flag and call himself a war president.
The neocons can hide their lack of determination to end this fiasco, by claiming you don't support the troops, hoping you won't notice it is the directors of this war that have mishandled every opportunity to make anything constructive come of it.

Over 2 years, 1800 American lives, tens of thousands of maimed and wounded Americans, 100,000 lraqi lives and more wounded, and 1/5th of a Trillion dollars spent.

We have created a breeding ground for terrorism and a potential civil war. We have funneled 9 billion dollars into Iraqi criminal, insurgent and terrorist hands. We have left ammo and weapons caches free to be looted.

This is just madness.

A horrible unnecessary, counterproductive invasion and destablization of a nation.

Think of the acres and acres of bloody stinking fly maggot infested corpses and realize this is what America stands for.

Pointless mass murder.
.



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 02:39 AM
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It is just another lie, smear tactic from the right. It needs to die right now.


Next headline on Drudge: Sheehan angery over smear tactics, "Right-Wingers need to die right now!"


[edit on 8/19/2005 by QuietSoul]




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