Begging Help

Who could give me some link or other words to prove that M61 garttling gun which equiped on warship has capability to intercept a supersonic missile?
thanks alots

Originally posted by emile
Who could give me some link or other words to prove that M61 garttling gun which equiped on warship has capability to intercept a supersonic missile?
thanks alots

Its called a "Phalanx", and nearly all US ships sport them. Carriers have at least two or more. They track high speed target such as missiles and planes and fill the air in front of them with metal in the hopes of destroying the target.

www.fas.org...

The MK 15 Phalanx Close-In Weapons System (CIWS - pronounced "sea-whiz") is a fast-reaction, rapid-fire 20-millimeter gun system that provides US Navy ships with a terminal defense against anti-ship missiles that have penetrated other fleet defenses. Designed to engage anti-ship cruise missiles and fixed-wing aircraft at short range, Phalanx automatically engages functions usually performed by separate, independent systems such as search, detection, threat evaluation, acquisition, track, firing, target destruction, kill assessment and cease fire.

The problem is lack of ammo - they only carry 900 rounds - enough for 9 seconds firing at full cyclic rate - although it can be set to only fire 60 or 100 rounds.

Originally posted by skippytjc
Its called a "Phalanx", and nearly all US ships sport them. Carriers have at least two or more.

Just a note that to the ship personnel, these are referred to as the SeaWiz gun mount...not the Phalanx. CIWS (pronounced SeaWiz - Close In Weapons System).

Also sometimes referred to as R2-D2.

As an aside - did you know the GAU-8 Avenger is used on 2 systems? not only as the main gun on the A-10 - but also on the Goalkeeper CIWS as well.

Yeah, the dutch invented that crazy gun, it doesn't have the range of a Phallanx though.

LOL R2D2...funny

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
Yeah, the dutch invented that crazy gun, it doesn't have the range of a Phallanx though.
LOL R2D2...funny

Well, it does look like one for the radar/ammo dome for a head, and the "whizzy" sound it makes when firing.

Anyone know the accuracy of this thing?

The CIWS can hit a supersonic missile. That is not a problem. The problem is that the speed of the missile and the close engagement range pretty much ensures that the ship in question gets fragged. Given the fact that no ship nowadays supports Iowa class armour even a fragging can cause alot of damage. So the RAM or rolling airframe missile which will engage the ASM's at a greater distance. if I recall its basically a sidewinder missile with a stinger seeker.

I believe this system is shown in the movie "The Sum Of All Fears" where an American carrier utilises it to try and destroy inbound Russian missiles. Although clearly a fictional example, it's still a pretty cool example of how the system works.

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
Yeah, the dutch invented that crazy gun, it doesn't have the range of a Phallanx though.

LOL R2D2...funny

I disagree - the Goalkeeper has a range over 4000 yds , which is equal or better than teh Phalanx 2c

I don't know if it was going supersonic or not but I saw Phalanx shoot sown a Sea Sparrow missile in 1985. The Forrestal was undergoing sea trial after her SLEP and we were testing both the Sea Sparrow and Phalanx. On the port side of the ship near the stern the Forrestal had a Sea Sparrow box launcher mounted and right below it was a Phalanx mount. The plan was to test the Phalanx in automatic mode on a drone and then test the Sea Sparrow on another drone. Well the Phalanx shredded its drone with no sweat. The second drone was launched and the Sea Sparrow tracked it and launched, problem was no one shut off the Phalanx. There is a safety feature on the Phalanx that won't let it engage with in 150 feet of the ship. As soon as the Sea Sparrow cleared 150 feet we heard a Brrrrrrrrraaaaaaapppp! and then BOOM and there was pieces of Sea Sparrow hitting the water. Looked like it was shooting skeet.

yeah.. thats what it is .. skeet shooting.. cool though..

Hey I just thought of a whacko idea...
Hows abt deploying a 10 by 10 foot metal net at the incoming missile??
Let the four corners of the net be hooked to rockets and let the net with rockets be fired at the incoming missile..
Pretty crude I know.. But I visualised it and it looked okay..

ESp. If the net approches the missile at an angle and not head on..
Then it'll have a better chance of yanking the missile off-course..
Also the sheer size of the net will guarantee contact with the incoming projectile..
Mind you the net will have to be made of silk steel alloys or soemthing like that.. strong and flexible..

Btw.. Got the idea from the AVP movie..Those predator nets..

Your thoughts please..

Originally posted by JIMC5499
I don't know if it was going supersonic or not but I saw Phalanx shoot sown a Sea Sparrow missile in 1985. The Forrestal was undergoing sea trial after her SLEP and we were testing both the Sea Sparrow and Phalanx. On the port side of the ship near the stern the Forrestal had a Sea Sparrow box launcher mounted and right below it was a Phalanx mount. The plan was to test the Phalanx in automatic mode on a drone and then test the Sea Sparrow on another drone. Well the Phalanx shredded its drone with no sweat. The second drone was launched and the Sea Sparrow tracked it and launched, problem was no one shut off the Phalanx. There is a safety feature on the Phalanx that won't let it engage with in 150 feet of the ship. As soon as the Sea Sparrow cleared 150 feet we heard a Brrrrrrrrraaaaaaapppp! and then BOOM and there was pieces of Sea Sparrow hitting the water. Looked like it was shooting skeet.

Thank you very much for your reply. As we know, SeaSparrow is real a kind of supersonic missile which developed from A-A missile. If the phalanx has capablitiy to intercept SeaSparrow, I believe that do can intercept most of supersonic drone, but could you post some photos to prove your words?I think that is impotant to give your phrases a grand evidence. The pictures are so important that I impossibly imaged that you have not taken any photos.

[edit on 20-8-2005 by emile]

Well if R2-D2 (lol) can track it it can probably hit it. After all, speed does nothing to stop a few hundred depleted uranium rounds from destroying the missile. So unless you've got a lot of them, or it can do some fancy manuevers, super-sonic missiles are still considered prey by R2-D2.

Originally posted by emile
Thank you very much for your reply. As we know, SeaSparrow is real a kind of supersonic missile which developed from A-A missile. If the phalanx has capablitiy to intercept SeaSparrow, I believe that do can intercept most of supersonic drone, but could you post some photos to prove your words?I think that is impotant to give your phrases a grand evidence. The pictures are so important that I impossibly imaged that you have not taken any photos.

[edit on 20-8-2005 by emile]

I don't know it there were pictures taken or not. I couldn't take any as I was working on the flight deck at the time and we had just stopped ops for the test. You usually can't carry cameras when working the flight deck because if you get hit with jet blast you might lose the camera and have it go down an intake and FOD out a plane. In reality you are not allowed to carry anything excep what you absolutly must have to do your job. I still have a scar on my hip because I forgot and left a quarter in my pocket. I got pretty close to the back end of a Tomcat and the quarter absorbed the heat from its exahust and burned my leg. I plan on attending the Forrestal reunion in October and will ask around about photos and if I can get any I'll be happy to post them.

As far as it being supersonic, the Sea Sparrow had just launched and I don't know what speed it was at everything happened kind of fast.

GOALKEEPER CIWS
Goalkeeper is a larger weapon system than the Phalanx CIWS, 30 mm calibre against 20 mm and as expected there are differences.

Goalkeeper is the more expensive system, costing more than twice as much as Phalanx;
Phalanx can be welded to any section of deck and plugged in ('bolt on'); Goalkeeper requires significant structural modifications ('deck penetration') unless incorporated at design and build
Phalanx fires continuously until the target is destroyed, Goalkeeper fires a burst of at least 1 second (70 rounds) but can switch targets depending on threat to ship;
They have equal weapons range: on average, a Phalanx 1B can kill targets out to 4,000 yards;
more accurate: Phalanx kill distance is 300 meters;
Goalkeepers new FMPDS (Frangible Metal Penetrator Discarding Sabot) provides more Kinetic energy than the Phalanx rounds;
Phalanx only keeps track of the current target, while Goalkeeper can track several and target the greater threat.
The Phalanx ammo drum is put directly into the gun, the Goalkeeper is reloaded from below deck.
Goalkeeper can be operated in three modes - Auto, Semi-Auto and Manual allowing full operator operability.
Gun info:

Gun: GAU-8/A Avenger 30mm seven-barrel Gatling gun
Rate of fire: 70 or 75 shots per second (4200 shots per minute)
Weapons range: 350 to 1500 or 2000 meters (depending on ammo)
Kill distance: 500 meters
Tracking: can keep track of 18 targets and prioritize
Magazine info:

magazine size: 1190 shots
burst size: 300 shots
bursts per magazine: 4
magazine reload time: 9 minutes (loading is done below deck)
Other info:

Manufacturer: Thales Navy Netherlands
Units produced: 50+
Cost: £8 Million
Users: Royal Netherlands Navy, British Royal Navy, South Korean Navy

PHALANX CIWS
Phalanx has been developed through a number of different configurations. The basic style is the Block 0. The Block 1 (1988) offers various improvements in radar, ammunition, rate of fire and computing. Block 1A introduced a new computer system. The Block 1B PSuM (Phalanx Surface Mode, 1999) adds a forward looking infrared (FLIR) sensor to allow the weapon to be used against surface targets. This addition was developed to provide ship defense against small vessel threats and other "floaters" in littoral waters and to improve the weapon's performance against slower low-flying aircraft. The Block 1B also allows for human intervention to identify and target threats.

The US Navy uses armor-piercing penetrator rounds, originally depleted uranium but now tungsten. All Phalanx systems hold 1500 rounds in their magazines.

The US and Canada are in the process of upgrading all their Phalanx systems to the Block 1B configuration. The Block 1B is also used by other navies such as Japan, Egypt and Bahrain.



Wouldnt like to be on the wrong end of either system.

AND THERE IS ONE BETTER.......

METAL STORM
Metal Storm Limited is a research and development company that specialises in electronic ballistics equipment.

The company is based in Brisbane, Australia and owns the proprietary rights to the electronic ballistics technology invented and developed by J. Mike O'Dwyer. Brisbane by night Brisbane City Botanic Gardens Brisbane is the capital city of the state of Queensland, Australia. ...

There are currently no commercially available or mass-produced weapons based on the Metal Storm technology, however, they have been doing various live-firing demonstrations and tests.
The technology makes it possible to load a single gun barrel with multiple rounds and to fire each round either singly or in rapid succession with safety. The complete system is technically a muzzle loading selective fire weapon.

A 36 barrel weapon with this type of action can fire in excess of one million rounds per minute and can throw a "wall" of bullets in front of the unit being defended. Compare this with an advanced mechanical Gatling gun type weapon that can fire at a rate of 6,000 rounds per minute (e.g. M61 Vulcan).

Extremely high rates of fire are needed to increase the kinetic energy striking the target rather than to increase the number of rounds actually fired. A theoretical unit designed for ship defence using 20 mm calibre can have a maximum burst rate of 75,000rpm, firing 300 rounds in 0.24 seconds with the rounds separated by just 1 metre in flight and can be used to destroy an incoming missile. This compares with another type of missile defence system for ships that fires 12.7mm tungsten sub-calibre projectiles at 3,000 rpm, delivering one round on target every fiftieth of a second, with each round separated by over 20m. Examples of such Close In Weapons Systems CIWS are the Phalanx CIWS and the Goalkeeper CIWS.

This extremely high rate of fire is achieved by eliminating mechanical steps that would slow the rate and instead using solely electronic means in combination with specially designed bullets, which serve as shell casings as well as projectiles. Through the use of electronic controls, fire rates can be made variable and also limited in duration. For instance, a new handgun for use by police can make a quick burst of a few bullets that spread out so as to better connect with the target (using a similar principle to the shotgun). The electronics also allow the use of "security tokens" whereby the gun does not function unless the holder has the token; similar systems are more difficult to implement in mechanical firearms.

Metal Storm's technology provides a means whereby objects, such as bullets that have been tightly grouped in multiple tube containers such as barrels, can be stored, transported in and electrically fired from those same containers. The containers or barrels can be grouped in any configuration.

Numerous projectiles are stacked in a barrel, with each projectile separated by a propellant load, such that the leading propellant can be reliably ignited to fire the projectile, without the resulting high pressure and temperature causing unplanned blowby ignition of the trailing propellant load, and without collapse of the projectile column in the barrel.

This is possible through the use of bullets which expand and lock in the barrel in response to high pressure immediately in front of the bullet. As a consequence, each bullet can be fired in sequence from the barrel. An individual barrel tube when loaded with numerous rounds and provided with an electric priming system is, in effect, a complete weapon. There is no need for any ammunition feed or ejection system, breech opening, or any other mechanical operation. The only moving parts in Metal Storm's barrel technology are the bullets.


en.wikipedia.org...



[edit on 22-8-2005 by Jezza]