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Proof that Freemasonry is a Religion

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posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 10:43 PM
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For those who want the truth about what the opportunist John Ankerberg says, try this one:

www.srmason-sj.org...



Hiding the truth out of fear for "profaners"?

How does that little Christian childrens' song go?
"This little light of mine; I'm gonna let it shine!"

Wh yhide the truth? Out of fear of ridicule? What kind of truth cannot stand up to scrutiny?

Please.




posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by eudaimonia

Originally posted by senrak
If you're small-minded enough to look at a video and accept what is said as complete truth, I guess you can't be helped. My only plea to you is PLEASE, never petition for membership in the Masonic Order. We don't want you.


Sorry, but any mason and non-mason alike who watches what Ankerberg has done with his masonic research, you'll reach the same conclusion as I did.


For those who want the truth about what the opportunist John Ankerberg says, try this one:

www.srmason-sj.org...


Well, waddya know, an official mason website denying Ankerberg.


The video is simply asking the question, "Is Freemasonry a Religion?"

Not, "Is Freemasonry Evil?!?!?!"


it doesnt matter if the question is are we a religion or are we evil, if it's not true we're goign to tell you.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by eudaimonia
Do me a favor and just ignore me already. I expected to hear your take on the topic at hand, but apparently all you can do is deny and accuse me of trolling.


That's because I no longer take you seriously. It has become blatantly obvious that you have NO interest in learning, so why waste my time? You yourself said, loud and clear, that you were ignorant regarding the subject of Freemasonry, yet you make no hesitation before cutting and pasting slanderous accusations from other anti-masonic websites. Your self-admitted misinformation and non-desire to learn the truth reveals you for what you are: a troll who seeks only to create controversy and boost his points on ATS.

[edit on 16-8-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne

For those who want the truth about what the opportunist John Ankerberg says, try this one:

www.srmason-sj.org...



Hiding the truth out of fear for "profaners"?

How does that little Christian childrens' song go?
"This little light of mine; I'm gonna let it shine!"

Wh yhide the truth? Out of fear of ridicule? What kind of truth cannot stand up to scrutiny?

Please.


Hiding what truth?

A handshake? None of the handshakes are even hidden. You can find every "secret" that the masons have on sites I have seen on the internet.

As I stated previously. Instead of just assuming the worst and being willing to believe what every non-Freemason wants to tell you about it, actually go to the Masonic building in your area. Meet a few of them. Judge them by their actions rather than exaggerated supposition.

The best way to judge a man is by his actions, the best way to judge what they will do in the future is by their past actions.

Talk to people who you know to be masons, not ones that say they were "33rd Degree" Masons attempting to act as if that is a big deal. All Freemasons would know that they are no more a Mason than the youngest Master just raised in the Lodge. Instead of judging by what people who want you to think poorly of Freemasons say, judge by those you know to be Masons and their actual actions.

It is easy to think poorly of another if you never seek the knowledge for yourself that would make the difference. Even if that person has spent a lifetime looking for bad stuff to say, it doesn't mean that what they tell you is the truth, it only means that they have sought long and hard to find more ways to say bad stuff about people.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:02 PM
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Always, whenever someone brings information pertinent to a certain secret society, the members of the secret society wind up saying that the person is blatantly lying and that they are merely attempting to escalate their points.
I never, ever, see any counter-information that could offest the conspiratorial information.

Are there any Mason members here that are 32 degree or higher?

Who is your god?



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by Cattlest

Originally posted by senrak
We require that a man believe in God, the Supreme Creator of all and in an afterlife. What the individual Mason believes ABOUT God or how he is to attain that after-life is his own personal business and NOT the concern of Masonry.


Thank you, I learned something new, I think. So that means atheists and agnostics aren't welcome in Freemasonry? If so I think that definately changes my perception of Freemasonry, not neccessarily good or bad way.
Can't wait to see your answer, though I'll have to because I have to go right now.


An agnostic would be welcome if they believed in on Supreme Being that created the Universe. It doesn't matter which God one believes in, it only matters that one does believe in a Supreme Being. An atheist would not be welcome, but only because Oaths to God would have no meaning to them therefore making them non-binding.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Always, whenever someone brings information pertinent to a certain secret society, the members of the secret society wind up saying that the person is blatantly lying and that they are merely attempting to escalate their points.
I never, ever, see any counter-information that could offest the conspiratorial information.


Prove to me that you don't worship hairballs spit up by my cat. You will find it impossible to convince me that you do not and you will be unable to provide any evidence to the contrary other than simply saying stuff that I will call lies. It is impossible to "prove" such a thing, therefore what they do is simply give the facts. So get on with proving that Thomas Crowne doesn't secretly worship my cat's hairballs.



Are there any Mason members here that are 32 degree or higher?

Who is your god?


Look as senrak's signature. You will see he is a 32 degree Mason. (33rd Degree is honorary, it is bestowed on those who distinguish themselves.) He is also a Past Master of his Lodge. I am currently Master of the Lodge of which I am a member.

Personally, I am a Buddhist. In our Lodge we have Muslims, 3 that come regularly, Buddhists, 1 that I know of (myself), and otherwise mostly Christians, there are some Jews there too. It is difficult to know exact numbers because we don't speak of religion while in the Lodge. I do not know every member, we have a huge membership roster...

You can ask senrak whom he worships, I cannot speak for him, but my guess would be that he worships Christ. I have good odds, 90% of people in the US profess a belief in Christianity.

It is ridiculous to think that a Fraternity would be able to get so many men to deny their Faiths. Especially one that supports whichever faith you choose.

[edit on 16-8-2005 by No1tovote4]



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:17 PM
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As I've stated on several occasions, no1, I have many friends, many aquaintances and many coworkers who are Masonic. I do not live separate from them, a Mason is not an alien to me. However, as you have noticed in all the conspiracy-related articles, books and threads, these people, and presumable, you, are not the cause of suspicion.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Are there any Mason members here that are 32 degree or higher?

Who is your god?


Oh, that old chestnut?

I gave you a wee bit more credit than that, Mr. Crowne.

Several of the Masons posting here are 32°.

Their gods are the same as they were before they were Masons, that's how it works. Masonry is not a religion; one adheres to whatever faith one adhered to before one became a Mason. Pretty simple.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Are there any Mason members here that are 32 degree or higher?

Who is your god?


My God is the catholic God, the same one the Pope, and most people in the US, prays to. My beliefs have not changed one bit since I became a mason, but interest in my faith has certainly grown.

Becoming a mason doesn't change your beliefs or religions, and the myth that the higher you progress in masonry the more "truth" is revealed to you is absolute B.S. Once you receive your 3rd degree, you are at the top of the ladder. Every other degree is nothing more than an addition to the first three degrees.

[edit on 16-8-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:25 PM
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Oh, so then, there god is the cross-hybrid of Jesus, Baal and Osirus, right? And, if they deny that, they are merely misleading this cow, right? Is that what you are saying?
Prove the theorists wrong!



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:27 PM
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Are you getting what I am driving at?
Why do you bother arguing on a conspiracy site? Do you guys bother to go to the other forums here, or do y'all guard this particular forum, waiting to call a theorist a liar?



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Are you getting what I am driving at?
Why do you bother arguing on a conspiracy site? Do you guys bother to go to the other forums here, or do y'all guard this particular forum, waiting to call a theorist a liar?


We do not wait to call theorists liars, we wait to CORRECT false statements for the people who actually want to LEARN.

This is the only forum that I am interested in, as it is the only subject that I have any experience in and knowledge of.

[edit on 16-8-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:31 PM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
As I've stated on several occasions, no1, I have many friends, many aquaintances and many coworkers who are Masonic. I do not live separate from them, a Mason is not an alien to me. However, as you have noticed in all the conspiracy-related articles, books and threads, these people, and presumable, you, are not the cause of suspicion.


The articles you post make suppositions of Masonry that are simply not true. There is no super-secret elite in Freemasonry that control or attempt to control the world, nor is there any time in any of the degrees where one is asked to deny their Faith or to worship God by another name. Freemasonry does not promise you an afterlife, it assumes that you believe in one because of your belief in Deity and acts accordingly in its ritual work.

All Freemasons are religious in their belief in the Deity, and Freemasonry is religious in acknowledging those beliefs and speaking openly about the Grand Architect, but Freemasonry is not their religion.

It is good to know that you judge the men you know to be Masons as good men, at least you believe that they are not part of this 'seditious conspiracy'.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Are you getting what I am driving at?
Why do you bother arguing on a conspiracy site? Do you guys bother to go to the other forums here, or do y'all guard this particular forum, waiting to call a theorist a liar?


I have called nobody a liar on this site, ever. You assume that because I give information from experience that I am calling you a liar?

This is a fallback position of all "theorists" when they are cornered with facts that they cannot dispute. Claim to be a victim all you want, but I have not called you a liar.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:38 PM
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Are you saying that I haven't seen the word "liar", or some other less than polite way of putting it? True, it was at a time when one was getting flustered, but it has happened.

You know, it gets tiresome for me, too, having to explain to members of societies that we don't have to believe them just because they so "It ain't so!"
Why just the other night, there was a member of a society who war trying to say the same thing. I finally had to tell him, "Look, you are bringing nothing to the table that refutes the research done by others. And, while we're talking, Henry, quit trying to tell everyone that you are from Germany! I can spot a semi-educated Alabama accent a mile a way!"
Sheesh, just because he was the 56th secretary of state, he thinks I'm supposed to take him at his word!



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:38 PM
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Originally posted by The Axeman
Masonry is not a religion; one adheres to whatever faith one adhered to before one became a Mason. Pretty simple.


Oh, that chestnut again?


Expain this:

1. The Opinion of Freemasonry's Authorities

Freemasonry is a religion. While those who want to be active in both Freemasonry and the Church may argue otherwise, the fact that Freemasonry is a religion is asserted by Freemasonry's own and most widely accepted authorities:

Albert Mackey, Encyclopedia of Freemasonry:

"The religion of Freemasonry is not sectarian. It admits men of every creed within its hospitable bosom, rejecting none and approving none for his peculiar faith. It is not Judaism, though there is nothing in it to offend the Jew; it is not Christianity, but there is nothing in it repugnant to the faith of a Christian. Its religion is that general one of nature and primitive revelation handed down to us from some ancient and patriarchial priesthood--in which all men may agree and in which no men can differ." (Page 641)

Henry Wilson Coil, Masonic Encyclopedia:
"Freemasonry has a religious service to commit the body of a deceased brother to the dust whence it came and to speed the liberated spirit back to the great Source of Light. Many Freemasons make this flight with no other guarantee of a safe landing than their belief in the religion of Freemasonry."

Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma:

"It [Masonry] reverences all the great reformers. It sees Moses, Confucius, Zoroaster, Jesus of Nazareth, ... Great Teachers of Morality, and Eminent Reformers, if no more: and allows every brother of the Order to assign to each such higher and even Divine Character as his Creed and Truth require." (Page 525).

"Masonry, around whose altars the Christian, the Hebrew, the Moslem, the Brahman, the followers of Confucius and Zoroaster, can assemble as brethren and unite in prayer to the one God who is above all the Baalim, must needs leave it to each of its initiates to look for the foundation of his faith and hope to the written scriptures of his own religion." (Page 226)

The above statements from authorities accepted and approved by Freemasonry clearly document that Freemasonry is a religion and is considered as such by knowledgeable Masons.

When Masons assemble together, they meet in a "temple" to offer "prayers" to the "Great Architect of the Universe"; and "kneel" at the "sacred altar" to engage in their "sacred vows". On the "sacred altar" is a "Volume of Sacred Law" which can be a Bible, a Koran or any other holy book. What more could be required before an assembly could accurately be referred to as a religion?


from:

www.pb.org...

I suggest you read POINT 2 and especially POINT 3:

3. Evidence From Rituals
The rituals of Freemasonry, when examined in the light of God's Word, confirm that Freemasonry is a religion, and also that it is a false "works system" of religion. Portions of the Masonic rituals will be discussed below to document this fact!"



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Oh, so then, there god is the cross-hybrid of Jesus, Baal and Osirus, right? And, if they deny that, they are merely misleading this cow, right? Is that what you are saying?
Prove the theorists wrong!


If a person worshiped a god that was the cross-hybrid of Jesus, Baal and Osiris when they became a Freemason, they would continue to worship that God. If a person believed in Christ, they would continue to believe in Christ after they became a Freemason. If they believed in Ahura Mazda, they would continue their Zoroastrianism as a Freemason.

At no time in any of the Degrees is one asked to deny their Faith and to believe in a different God.

(BTW - You still haven't proven that you don't worship my cat's hairballs. Why is that?)



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:43 PM
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Why is that? Because you'll find no conspiracy theory surrounding me and your cat's coughings. As a matter of fact, as a Christian, I have no secrets. There are no conspiracy theories that I am aware of, and if there are, I, like you in the Masons, am not part of the conspiracies.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Why is that? Because you'll find no conspiracy theory surrounding me and your cat's coughings. As a matter of fact, as a Christian, I have no secrets. There are no conspiracy theories that I am aware of, and if there are, I, like you in the Masons, am not part of the conspiracies.


You mean there were no Conspiracy Theories surrounding your worship of my cat's coughings, I have simply begun one, I am becoming a theorist. I could spend a lifetime studying, taking suggestive information out of context, to make others believe in your worship of my cat's coughings or I could, as I will, take you at your word.

Or I could, as I have seen the theorists do, simply say you are only hiding the truth about your worship of my cat's coughings from the profane.

I think what we are actually having is semantic differences. As I stated, Freemasonry is religious in nature as it requires a belief in Deity and therefore often mentions Deity under many different descriptions such as Grand Architect, Deity, Fides, and others. And I have actually met some Freemasons that are Agnostic that believe that Freemasonry is all the religion that they will need. Therefore in some cases Freemasonry could be considered a religion. However it is not required that you use Freemasonry as a religion in order to be a Freemason. Freemasonry does not require a conversion at any point.

One can worship whomever they wish so long as they believe that their Deity created the Universe.






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