Proof that Freemasonry is a Religion

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posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 06:52 PM
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The only thing I'll write in this thread is to take a look at this video because it is the ONLY proof you need:

The Masonic Lodge: What Goes on Behind Closed Doors?

Don't come back saying, "Oh it's from a christian perspective". Who cares where it's from? They even have former masons saying the same thing!

Freemasonry is a religion. PERIOD.




posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by eudaimonia
The only thing I'll write in this thread is to take a look at this video because it is the ONLY proof you need:

The Masonic Lodge: What Goes on Behind Closed Doors?

Don't come back saying, "Oh it's from a christian perspective". Who cares where it's from? They even have former masons saying the same thing!

Freemasonry is a religion. PERIOD.


If you're small-minded enough to look at a video and accept what is said as complete truth, I guess you can't be helped. My only plea to you is PLEASE, never petition for membership in the Masonic Order. We don't want you.

For those who want the truth about what the opportunist John Ankerberg says, try this one:

www.srmason-sj.org...



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by senrak
If you're small-minded enough to look at a video and accept what is said as complete truth, I guess you can't be helped. My only plea to you is PLEASE, never petition for membership in the Masonic Order. We don't want you.


Sorry, but any mason and non-mason alike who watches what Ankerberg has done with his masonic research, you'll reach the same conclusion as I did.


For those who want the truth about what the opportunist John Ankerberg says, try this one:

www.srmason-sj.org...


Well, waddya know, an official mason website denying Ankerberg.


The video is simply asking the question, "Is Freemasonry a Religion?"

Not, "Is Freemasonry Evil?!?!?!"



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by eudaimonia
Sorry, but any mason and non-mason alike who watches what Ankerberg has done with his masonic research, you'll reach the same conclusion as I did.


You mean that Ankerberg's a fundamentalist whack-o who's out to get your $$$ by spreading hate and lies about Freemasonry and other organizations? Sure. I've reached that conclusion.



Well, waddya know, an official mason website denying Ankerberg.


Yes. Freemasons prefer that the TRUTH be told and Ankerberg is a pathetic liar. That should be made known.



The video is simply asking the question, "Is Freemasonry a Religion?"
Which it isn't.

Ankerberg can say what he wants, and you can think what you think. I've been a VERY active Freemason for 16 years. I can categorically say that it is NOT a religion. Christianity is my RELIGION. Freemasonry is my FRATERNITY.

Sorry you think it is a religion...but it's not.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by senrak
Sorry you think it is a religion...but it's not.


Ok, be aware that I'm not against all masons, I know there's many who are good-willed.

BUT...explain THIS to me. PLEASE!


In Morals and Dogma, Pike wrote: "Every Masonic lodge is a temple of religion; and its teachings are instruction in religion...Masonry, like all religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead...to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it... The truth must be kept secret, and the masses need a teaching proportioned to their imperfect reason… every man's conception of God must be proportioned to his mental cultivation, and intellectual powers, and moral excellence. God is, as man conceives him, the reflected image of man himself."

What other interpretations can be given from this?! Is Pike himself misleading masons with this text?



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by eudaimonia

Originally posted by senrak
Sorry you think it is a religion...but it's not.


Ok, be aware that I'm not against all masons, I know there's many who are good-willed.

BUT...explain THIS to me. PLEASE!


In Morals and Dogma, Pike wrote: "Every Masonic lodge is a temple of religion; and its teachings are instruction in religion...Masonry, like all religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead...to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it... The truth must be kept secret, and the masses need a teaching proportioned to their imperfect reason… every man's conception of God must be proportioned to his mental cultivation, and intellectual powers, and moral excellence. God is, as man conceives him, the reflected image of man himself."

What other interpretations can be given from this?! Is Pike himself misleading masons with this text?


Ah, the straw-man Pike. Who did NOT speak for all of Freemasonry. Pike's Morals & Dogma (which has been much discussed on this site) was PIKE'S opinion, mixed with the writings of many others.

I haven't looked up what you're quoting to see if it's been re-arranged by Ankerberg and his ilk for their benefit or not (they're famous for that) but if those words (in that order) DO appear in Morals & Dogma PLEASE keep this in mind. In the Preface to M&D...in EVERY edition that was printed from 1871 to the 1960's when the book stopped being printed and used...PIKE himself had these words:

"Every one is entirely free to reject and dissent from whatsoever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound. It is only required of him that he shall weigh what is taught, and give it fair hearing and unprejudiced judgment."

I haven't the time tonight, but I'll look the reference up (I promise you that) and will respond. I need to read the ENTIRE section where that appears to try and understand the context in which Pike used it. For he, himself, did not consider Freemasonry a Religion. Pike was a devout Trinitarian Christian (an Episcopalian, in fact).



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 08:31 PM
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I'm starting to think that Masonry may be a religion by the literal meaning. The point of this statement is usually to prove that being a Mason is un-Christianlike (or other religion). Even if it was a religion, how would being a mason be unchristianlike if you were not worshipping idols or and still claimed Jesus as your saviour?



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by eudaimonia
Well, waddya know, an official mason website denying Ankerberg.


The video is simply asking the question, "Is Freemasonry a Religion?"

Not, "Is Freemasonry Evil?!?!?!"


According to you the video supposedly answered that question...

I will have to watch it later when I am on my own computer, but I doubt it will give me any "proof" that Freemasonry is a religion. They have never changed my religion, nor asked me to change what I believe.

Once again, instead of believing what every "expert" has to say about Freemasonry, actually meet a few Freemasons, talk to them. See what they are about. The best judgement of them are their actions. You will find that they are regular people that are members of a Fraternity and not part of some secretive religion.

If you don't want to know the truth, simply believe what anybody says rather than meeting people you know to be actual Freemasons.

(edited for spelling)

[edit on 16-8-2005 by No1tovote4]



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by Cattlest
I'm starting to think that Masonry may be a religion by the literal meaning. The point of this statement is usually to prove that being a Mason is un-Christianlike (or other religion). Even if it was a religion, how would being a mason be unchristianlike if you were not worshipping idols or and still claimed Jesus as your saviour?


Masonry has no "plan of salvation" NOWHERE in Masonry is it claimed that being a Mason will "get you to heaven" or "save your soul" like most religions claim to do. We require that a man believe in God, the Supreme Creator of all and in an afterlife. What the individual Mason believes ABOUT God or how he is to attain that after-life is his own personal business and NOT the concern of Masonry.

Fundamentalist Christianity (a notoriously intolerant group) refuses to accept such a concept. They generally believe that THEY are adamantly RIGHT and everyone else is UNDENYABLY wrong. ...not a very "Christian" attitude, huh?



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by senrak
We require that a man believe in God, the Supreme Creator of all and in an afterlife. What the individual Mason believes ABOUT God or how he is to attain that after-life is his own personal business and NOT the concern of Masonry.


Thank you, I learned something new, I think. So that means atheists and agnostics aren't welcome in Freemasonry? If so I think that definately changes my perception of Freemasonry, not neccessarily good or bad way.
Can't wait to see your answer, though I'll have to because I have to go right now.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by Cattlest
Thank you, I learned something new, I think. So that means atheists and agnostics aren't welcome in Freemasonry?


Exactly what that means. We don't ask WHAT you believe about God...just that you DO believe in a "Supreme Being"



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by eudaimonia

Originally posted by senrak
Sorry you think it is a religion...but it's not.


Ok, be aware that I'm not against all masons, I know there's many who are good-willed.

BUT...explain THIS to me. PLEASE!


In Morals and Dogma, Pike wrote: "Every Masonic lodge is a temple of religion; and its teachings are instruction in religion...Masonry, like all religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead...to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it... The truth must be kept secret, and the masses need a teaching proportioned to their imperfect reason… every man's conception of God must be proportioned to his mental cultivation, and intellectual powers, and moral excellence. God is, as man conceives him, the reflected image of man himself."

What other interpretations can be given from this?! Is Pike himself misleading masons with this text?


That, as I would expect coming from you, is a complete butchery of what is actually in print. Some of what you snipped is there, but you seriously need to work on your reading comprehension... I mean if you don't even get Mirthful Me's monkey jokes, you certainly don't need to be trying to tackle Pike. Start with Dr. Seuss, perhaps.


Here's what it says:


From Morals and Dogma, pp104-5:

Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert it. So God Himself incapacitates many men, by color-blindness, to distinguish colors, and leads the masses away from the highest Truth, giving them the power to attain only so much of it as it is profitable to them to know. Every age has had a religion suited to its capacity.

The Teachers, even of Christianity, are, in general, the most ignorant of the true meaning of that which they teach. There is no book of which so little is known as the Bible. To most who read it, it is as incomprehensible as the Sohar.

So Masonry jealously conceals its secrets, and intentionally leads conceited interpreters astray. There is no sight under the sun more pitiful and ludicrous at once, than the spectacle of the Prestons and the Webbs, not to mention the later incarnations of Dullness and Commonplace, undertaking to "explain" the old symbols of Masonry, and adding to and "improving" them, or inventing new ones.


I couldn't even find the first part of that misquote; so if you would be so kind as to give me a page number, I'll post the rest of THAT in context. I have a feeling that this statement: "Every Masonic lodge is a temple of religion; and its teachings are instruction in religion..." isn't even in the book. If it is, eudaimonia, I would like you to give me a page number...

If it's not too much trouble.


[edit on 8/16/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 09:06 PM
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Axeman,

EXCELLENT Post. Thanks. I was about to go to my bookshelf for M&D and start making a few notes. Saves me the trouble.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 09:17 PM
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Originally posted by The Axeman
That, as I would expect coming from you, is a complete butchery of what is actually in print. Some of what you snipped is there, but you seriously need to work on your reading comprehension... I mean if you don't even get Mirthful Me's monkey jokes, you certainly don't need to be trying to tackle Pike. Start with Dr. Seuss, perhaps.




Dr. Seuss is good, but my favorite is:







From Morals and Dogma, pp104-5:

Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert it. So God Himself incapacitates many men, by color-blindness, to distinguish colors, and leads the masses away from the highest Truth, giving them the power to attain only so much of it as it is profitable to them to know. Every age has had a religion suited to its capacity.

The Teachers, even of Christianity, are, in general, the most ignorant of the true meaning of that which they teach. There is no book of which so little is known as the Bible. To most who read it, it is as incomprehensible as the Sohar.

So Masonry jealously conceals its secrets, and intentionally leads conceited interpreters astray. There is no sight under the sun more pitiful and ludicrous at once, than the spectacle of the Prestons and the Webbs, not to mention the later incarnations of Dullness and Commonplace, undertaking to "explain" the old symbols of Masonry, and adding to and "improving" them, or inventing new ones.



I couldn't even find the first part of that misquote; so if you would be so kind as to give me a page number, I'll post the rest of THAT in context. I have a feeling that this statement: "Every Masonic lodge is a temple of religion; and its teachings are instruction in religion..." isn't even in the book. If it is, eudaimonia, I would like you to give me a page number...

If it's not too much trouble.




Actually, you got it wrong too.

Here's the original full quote from:

freemasonry.bcy.ca...



Full quote

Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion and its teachings are instruction. For here are inculcated disinterestedness, affection, toleration, devolvedness, patriotism, truth, a generous sympathy with those who suffer and mourn, pity for the fallen, mercy for the erring, relief for those in want, Faith, Hope, Charity. Here we meet as brethren to learn to know and love each other. Here we greet each other gladly, are lenient to each other's faults, regardful of each other's feelings, ready to relieve each other's wants,"

Albert Pike, Morals & Dogma, pp. 213-214.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by senrak
Axeman,

EXCELLENT Post. Thanks. I was about to go to my bookshelf for M&D and start making a few notes. Saves me the trouble.



It's a shame you didn't



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by eudaimonia
Full quote
Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion and its teachings are instruction. For here are inculcated disinterestedness, affection, toleration, devolvedness, patriotism, truth, a generous sympathy with those who suffer and mourn, pity for the fallen, mercy for the erring, relief for those in want, Faith, Hope, Charity. Here we meet as brethren to learn to know and love each other. Here we greet each other gladly, are lenient to each other's faults, regardful of each other's feelings, ready to relieve each other's wants,"
Albert Pike, Morals & Dogma, pp. 213-214.


God that sounds evil! To think that Freemasons teach "disinterestedness, affection, toleration, devolvedness, patriotism, truth, a generous sympathy with those who suffer and mourn, pity for the fallen, mercy for the erring, ....Faith, Hope...Charity"

Sheesh! NO WONDER people hate them so. What a bunch of evil-doers!!!!




posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by eudaimonia

Originally posted by senrak
Axeman,

EXCELLENT Post. Thanks. I was about to go to my bookshelf for M&D and start making a few notes. Saves me the trouble.



It's a shame you didn't


Oh, I might tomorrow. I've got to put my two sons to bed soon.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by eudaimonia
Freemasonry is a religion. PERIOD.


And you're a troll.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by eudaimonia
Freemasonry is a religion. PERIOD.


And you're a troll.


Do me a favor and just ignore me already. I expected to hear your take on the topic at hand, but apparently all you can do is deny and accuse me of trolling.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by eudaimonia
Actually, you got it wrong too.


Actually, I didn't. Nice try though, but as I have the book right in front of me I can be certain I am not misquoting. What you did was past a line from page 213 in front of a passage from page 104-5. But you didn't do that on purpose, right?


At any rate, you gave me the page number, which I asked for. Thank you.

First, let's see what the definition of "religion" is, eh?


from www.dictionary.com...

re·li·gion

1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
3. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
4. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
5. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.


Ah. So the word religion can be used to mean a "cause, principle, or activity." Not necessarily to refer to a standardized form of worship to a Diety. Good to know.



Now then, let's take a look at Chapter 13, shall we?


M&D, pp 212-13

Books, to be of religious tendency in the Masonic sense, need not be books of sermons, of pious exercises, or of prayers. What-ever inculcates pure, noble, and patriotic sentiments, or touches the heart with the beauty of virtue, and the excellence of an up-right life, accords with the religion [principle] of Masonry, and is the Gospel of literature and art. That Gospel is preached from many a book and painting, from many a poem and fiction, and review and newspaper; and it is a painful error and miserable narrowness, not to recognize these wide-spread agencies of Heaven's providing; not to see and welcome these many-handed coadjutors, to the great and good cause. The oracles of God do not speak from the pulpit alone.

[...]

Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion [principle]; and its teachings are instruction in religion [principle]. For here are inculcated disinterestedness, affection, toleration, devotedness, patriotism, truth, a generous sympathy with those who suffer and mourn, pity for the fallen, mercy for the erring, relief for those in want, Faith, Hope, and Charity. Here we meet as brethren, to learn to know and love each other. Here we greet each other gladly, are lenient to each other's faults, regardful of each other's feelings, ready to relieve each other's wants. This is the true religion [principle] revealed to the ancient patriarchs; which Masonry has taught for many centuries, and which it will continue to teach as long as time endures. If unworthy passions, or selfish, bitter, or revengeful feelings, contempt, dislike, hatred, enter here, they are intruders and not welcome, strangers uninvited, and not guests.


[brackets in the quote are mine to make a point.]

So you see, Masonry in and of itself is not a religion, it is a principle, and not only that, but one that is highly compatible with any Religion of the world worth its salt.

Your feeble attempts to make Masonry something it is not are useless, becasue you strive to prove that which is Truth untrue.

[edit on 8/16/05 by The Axeman]





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