Is the Koran the devil's work?

Grey_Mysterio

Thank you for your understanding and civil discourse. It’s uncommon to find someone on these forums who can disagree with me in such a kind manner. I wish all people could agree to disagree in such a manner as we have. This is the true meaning of tolerance.


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Originally posted by XphilesPhan
So we have conflicting beliefs here, the koran given to mohammed by gabriel said jesus was not the son of God, where as we know that he was, accoeding to the new testament. Therefore whatever appeared to muhammed lied to him.

:bash: LOL! You don't even consider the posibility that the "angel" that announced Jesus was actually "the devil".

Of course, the simpler explanation is that both are stories of delusion.

I dont believe in religion, I do believe in spituality! I know this, I have been to over a thousand protestant and Catholic churches in a job I once held. My bosses were mostly Pastors. I have seen through this experience and everything that I have witnessed something is just basiclly wrong with all fear base religions. God does not judge people. God teaches people. You learn through life experiences, then other lives and on and on until you have learned all of the lessons the physical vessel can teach. Your wise old soul then move on to a higher plain.

God would never send a soul to hell for eterntity for not believing in something, that is just insanity. There is not evil, just postive and negative forces.

I will make it clear by giving an two questions I have asked people that believe in the Christian religion.

If Adolf Hitler who helped cause the death and muders of millions of people, if in the end he had a change of heart and accsepted Jesus Christ as his savior and repented, woud he go to heaven or hell?

The answer is always, heaven.

I then ask. There is a man who lived his entire life through goodness and kindness. He never had bad feelings for others, lived a good clean life took are of and raised a fine family, but after being taught about Jesus and the bible, could accept the lord Jesus as his savior, and chose to beleive something else, would he go to heaven or hell.

The answer is always, hell.

There is something really wrong here, I cant believe in an unforgiving God. One that would give you one chance at life and if you didnt believe in something written in a book you would spend eternity suffering the fires of hell?

Sheesh





[edit on 19-8-2005 by Code 3]

Code 3, you're thinking too much. If you want to understand the perspectives of the faithfull, you have to turn your brain off first.

Originally posted by spamandham
Code 3, you're thinking too much. If you want to understand the perspectives of the faithfull, you have to turn your brain off first.

Lol that is very funny! That is the key, you cannot think for therefore we cannot control you.

Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
So we have conflicting beliefs here, the koran given to mohammed by gabriel said jesus was not the son of God, where as we know that he was, accoeding to the new testament. Therefore whatever appeared to muhammed lied to him.

:bash: LOL! You don't even consider the posibility that the "angel" that announced Jesus was actually "the devil".

Of course, the simpler explanation is that both are stories of delusion.

Somehow, I doubt jesus had anything to do with satan, muhammed on the other hand is believed to have been deceived on certain verses in the koran. So if certain verses were influenced by satan, what does this tell you about the rest of the koran?

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Somehow, I doubt jesus had anything to do with satan,

I doubt it too. Both are fictional characters.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
muhammed on the other hand is believed to have been deceived on certain verses in the koran. So if certain verses were influenced by satan, what does this tell you about the rest of the koran?

It tells me that you are listening to arguments that support your position, but ignoring those that counter it.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Somehow, I doubt jesus had anything to do with satan,

I doubt it too. Both are fictional characters.

Actually Roman records confirm that a man named jesus of nazarath was crucified at golgotha. Kinda blows your 'fictional character' argument out of the water.

[edit on 19-8-2005 by XphilesPhan]

No, they don't. Please cite the records.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Actually Roman records confirm that a man named jesus of nazarath was crucified at golgotha. Kinda blows your 'fictional character' argument out of the water.

Roman records also tell us about how aliens seeded the earth with life, and they tell us that Nessie and big foot are real.

It was Salman Rushdie who came up with the "Satanic Verses" idea. Now if you believe that the stories are true, and the koran was given to mohammed, not that he came up with it himself, then it was given either by a spirit of light, or a spirit of darkness.

Now the koran refutes many basic teachings of judaism and christianity, even though they claim to be a continuation of the same tradition. They have done nothing but make trouble for jews and christians over tha past 1000 yrs.

They are also notoriously anti women. I know this because I was raised in the middle east (Israel). Now if you accept that women are the 'life bearers', and Islam is anti woman, then isn't it possible that the koran was given by an 'evil' spirit?



[edit on 20-8-2005 by ShaktiMhi]

Originally posted by ShaktiMhi
They are also notoriously anti women. I know this because I was raised in the middle east (Israel). Now if you accept that women are the 'life bearers', and Islam is anti woman, then isn't it possible that the koran was given by an 'evil' spirit?

You happen to be really wrong here..if you watch history and had really known and read about islam then you would have found out that islam was the one religion which gave the most respect and freedom to the women.'She' was offered with best of everything... where as other religions back then had practices like 'sathi' an ancient rule that if a women's husband died.. then she should die by jumping into fire.
What your talking about maybe the cause of some men.. and they maynot be necessary to an islamic follower.. moreover.. look at the case of south africa where women are not safe at all...
see? its men...some men who real bad eggs.. and u cant just blame that on islam.
And another fact.. if what your saying was true then none of the muslims would be havin any sort of family life(if the men are cruel to the women all the times)..where as WE DO!!

[edit on 20-8-2005 by Grey_Mysterio]

Originally posted by Grey_Mysterio
You happen to be really wrong here..if you watch history and had really known and read about islam then you would have found out that islam was the one religion which gave the most respect and freedom to the women.

Well; let's see what guidance the Qur'an gives regarding women and how men should deal with them...

Pickthal translation 4:34
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

Shakir translation 4:34

Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Of course; this is only the Qur'an. I won't even get into what the Hadith says about women (or girls for that matter) and their place in Islamic society.

[edit on 20-8-2005 by Freedom_for_sum]

Originally posted by Grey_Mysterio

Originally posted by AgentGirl
Which Passages in the Koran are inspired by what Muslims believe as the Angel Gabriel and which by Mohammed and Mohammeds buddys?

We know that Muhammed was illiterate, personally I don't think that knowing how to read and write makes u any smarter. Though it helps in an argument LOL Ok enough laughing.

I have always had these beliefs about Islam and also Muhammed and Discussing Islam.
1. Muhammed was posessed by an Evil Force or Spirit. " Satanic Verses"
2. Islam has killed , killed, killed and killed more, as did the early Churches in Christianity. has gone into areas only to Conquer and subdue the natives and force Islam upon then and so did Christianity. Who is doing this today?
3. Islam is killing and enslaving people as we speak on the Continent of Africa.
4. I don't speakl about what I really want to say because it would be taken Directly from the " Holy Koran" and I have had enough points taken away from me for quoting the Koran.
5. talking about this Subject will start big fights online and chatrooms because Religous beliefs usually ends up in points taken or death in this LIFE

These are just what you feel or believe.. the truth is that you donot know about islam and its teachings..
Read the Quran and see for yourself.. there are a lot of transalations.. it teaches us a mode of a good life (e.g prohibiting the consumption of liquor) and to worship a sole God Allmighty..those are its main teachings.. no part in it is there as you have put it.
And without knowing all about it or understanding about it..when you pull out such points.. do u mean to say that..
all my families,relatives,friends and i have been followin satan all this time?
we are "bad" and you are "good"?
Please i ask you to understand things before you make such comparisons and make such conclusions.

yes u are so right i am no expert on world religon. I focus on the Good and Love in religon, where is this in the quran? where is it written to love thy neighbor and all people. Where is it written that we are all Gods children. man where is the LOVE in ISLAM? I only see DEATH everywhere where Islam is .

How can Islam be the one true religion when they read the old testiment???? Not only that they believe in Abraham, who took a wife Hagar, had a son name Ishmael. Abraham's first wife sarah conceived her son Isaac. Ishmael gave birth to Islam. Isaac gave birth to jew and then christianity.

One of my main point in saying this is Ismael was born out of what God did not want. Bible genesis chapter 15 v 4-5 God promises Abraham that he will have a child. Chapter 17 God give insights and more promises that Abraham will have children vChater 17 v 15 God says he will bless sarah to have a child. v 17 Abraham laughs because he thinks him self too old to have children. Chaper 18 - v 12 Sarah laughs to thinking they are too old.
Genesis 16 Sarah gives her servant hagar to abraham to have a child.

Second main point is the promises that God says about the two children.
Genesis chapet 17 v 19 God says he will establish his covenant with Isaac, as a everlasting covenant for his descendants. But God does not say Ishmael will not have blessing. In fact Abraham says in v 18 to God (If only Ishmael might live under your Blessing0. But God says this in v 20 ( And as for Ismael, I have heard you :I will surely bless him; I will make fruitfull and will greatly increase his numbers) So we know God gives Blessing, great Blessing to Ishmael. But God covenant is with Isaac. Genesis chapter 17 v 21 ( But my covenant I will establish with Isaac.

3rd IF I am right Islam's read the first 5 books of the Bible, but you can not read parts of the bible, and only believe parts of the bible. It means you ignore half of whats written.
Even Quran says God never knew them. Quran 96:1-5 Recite And your lord is the most gernerous who taught by the pen, TAUGHT MAN THAT HE KNEW NOT.

It seams to me there are two religions that God gives Blessing to, but God estabishes his covenant with jew- christians.

Originally posted by slymattb
How can Islam be the one true religion when they read the old testiment???? Not only that they believe in Abraham, who took a wife Hagar, had a son name Ishmael. Abraham's first wife sarah conceived her son Isaac. Ishmael gave birth to Islam. Isaac gave birth to jew and then christianity.

Islam believes that the current Bible has been corrupted, and that the original texts prove Islam true. Prove them wrong.

Originally posted by AgentGirl
yes u are so right i am no expert on world religon. I focus on the Good and Love in religon, where is this in the quran? where is it written to love thy neighbor and all people. Where is it written that we are all Gods children. man where is the LOVE in ISLAM? I only see DEATH everywhere where Islam is .

'Where' ? Well i take my own life for example..born a muslim kept my imaan (faith) all along.And im living a happy life with my parents and so are everybody else who i have come across,known or know.. its been a peaceful and smooth life.I havent seen the HATE that you talk about..
Following the islamic conduct of living may seem a little strict.. but its for the good... and means only good.

ISLAM stands on 5 pillars..
1. To bear witness that there is none worthy of worship save Allah and that Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) is the Messenger of Allah.
2. To observe Prayer (Salat).
3. To Pay Zakat (Alms giving)
4. To perform the Pilgrimage to the House of Allah (Hajj).
5. To Observe fasting during Ramadhan." (Bukhari)

These are what islam requires in terms of religious aspects from muslims.. what here promotes hate? (e.g Fasting shows you how the hungry and homeless is going through and how you should be thankful to god for putting foods on our tables.. therefore help the poor.. give alms!
And also if you see.. you'll find out that an islamic family life is very stable.

I think spam you mist the point.

Originally posted by slymattb
I think spam you mist the point.

What point would that be sly?

Muslims view what you call the OT to be corrupted, which is a euphamism for 'pack of lies loosely based on the One True Religion™, Islam"

It's only because you are incapable of comprehending that other people do not idolize the Bible like you do that you are having trouble with this.

The material world is transigent, and all material things are temporary. The devil, that ol' chicken, were he to exist, would have been created by God, so then indirectly the Koran, etc. are God's work. The opening question itself is terrible, implying that over a billion good Muslim folk are being fooled by the devil, and that the Bible is somehow more valid.