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Is the Koran the devil's work?

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posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 12:54 PM
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I'm interested in getting the views of your posters on the Koran, and particularly whether they think it is an inpired religious text.

The Koran was revealed to the illiterate Mohammed, by 'an angel', while he was hiding in a cave. Though he was unable to either read or write, he could recieve this transmission. More interesting is the fact that the Koran is a 'song', composed in the most intricate series of interlocking verses, and well beyond the ablities of Mohammed.

Though the koran preaches peaceful co exsistence with judaism and christianity, they have been at war with the west for 1000 yrs. Though they claim to worship Abraham's God, they deny the supremacy of Issac over Ishmael, and they deny the death and ressurection of Jesus.

There is a new testament verse that says the devil is able to transform himself into an angel of light,to decieve men. Those familiar with their Old Testament psuedopigrapha will remember that lucifer was the head musician.

So the question is: what did Mohammed see in the cave? Was it really an angel of light? Or was it the devil? Was the message of Islam given to Mohammed by a spirit of darkenss, to inspire hostility against the west?




posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 01:18 PM
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With all due respect...

but.. where did u even get such an idea? ..cuz its totally a wrong claim that ur making..there is nothing of that sort.
AND..The angel that appeared in the cave is known as "Jibreel" in arabic to muslims... which to christians is "gabriel".



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 01:29 PM
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yes, the angel which appeared to muhamed claimed to be gabriel, gabriel was also the angel that appeared to joseph to tell him not to be upset that mary was pregnant. So we have conflicting beliefs here, the koran given to mohammed by gabriel said jesus was not the son of God, where as we know that he was, accoeding to the new testament. Therefore whatever appeared to muhammed lied to him. Satan can appear as an angel. Remember according to islam a prophet cannot lie, therefore when jesus said he was the son of God, he was truthful. Satan hates Christ and will try to defeat his people.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 01:37 PM
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Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. I ask everyone who needs clarification on the subject to make a sincere supplication to guide them to the right path. Your supplication will be answered inshallah (God willing)



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 01:42 PM
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I notice in your avatar you have the arabic for allah. Im impressed that you did not feel attacked. please comment more on this thread



www.vexen.co.uk...

This explains how islam believed certain passages were inserted into the koran by satan.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan
So we have conflicting beliefs here, the koran given to mohammed by gabriel said jesus was not the son of God, where as we know that he was, accoeding to the new testament. Therefore whatever appeared to muhammed lied to him. Satan can appear as an angel. Remember according to islam a prophet cannot lie, therefore when jesus said he was the son of God, he was truthful. Satan hates Christ and will try to defeat his people.


yes there are conflicting beliefs.. but not to an extend of saying that its satans work in the Quran... yes islam doesn not believe jesus being the son of god because of a certain teaching that states that the ALMIGHTY LORD does not have any blood relation of any kind.. HIM.. being the supreme creator.. therefore concerning jesus..to muslims he is a prophet!
... But this shouldnt be t cause of any disputes b/w the religions.. or having to put it its t work of satan... its just different beliefs..after all its two different religions!



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 02:58 PM
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This whole thing is somewhat silly no? May as well ask if the burning bush was really satan, or ask if jesus was really the devil in disguise.


Originally posted by XphilesPhan
the koran given to mohammed by gabriel said jesus was not the son of God

Does the Koran say this as dictated by Gabriel or is it part of the commentary that are along with the divinely communicated part?


Remember according to islam a prophet cannot lie, therefore when jesus said he was the son of God, he was truthful.

First off, do you really think that you have a better understanding of islam than......muslims???

If prophets can't lie, and jesus is considered a prophet, and jesus is not son of god, then jesus wouldn't've said he was son of god. I think that the Islamic idea is that christians mucked it all up and added this stuff about jesus being the son of god, possibly the result of deception from the devil himself. Its silly to try to say that any particular religion is the result of deception by the devil. Whatever can be said about islam, it can be said about Christianity.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 03:12 PM
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Is the Bible the devi's work? We may never know



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 03:17 PM
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Which Passages in the Koran are inspired by what Muslims believe as the Angel Gabriel and which by Mohammed and Mohammeds buddys?

We know that Muhammed was illiterate, personally I don't think that knowing how to read and write makes u any smarter. Though it helps in an argument LOL Ok enough laughing.




I have always had these beliefs about Islam and also Muhammed and Discussing Islam.
1. Muhammed was posessed by an Evil Force or Spirit. " Satanic Verses"
2. Islam has killed , killed, killed and killed more, as did the early Churches in Christianity. has gone into areas only to Conquer and subdue the natives and force Islam upon then and so did Christianity. Who is doing this today?
3. Islam is killing and enslaving people as we speak on the Continent of Africa.
4. I don't speakl about what I really want to say because it would be taken Directly from the " Holy Koran" and I have had enough points taken away from me for quoting the Koran.
5. talking about this Subject will start big fights online and chatrooms because Religous beliefs usually ends up in points taken or death in this LIFE



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by ShaktiMhi
Though the koran preaches peaceful co exsistence with judaism and christianity,...


I does? How do you explain this guidance provided by the Qur'an:

5:51. O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

and

5:64. The Jews say: Allah's hand is fettered. Their hands are fettered and they are accursed for saying so. Nay, but both His hands are spread out wide in bounty. He bestoweth as He will. That which bath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord is certain to increase the contumacy and disbelief of many of them, and We have cast among them enmity and hatred till the Day of Resurrection. As often as they light a fire for war, Allah xtinguisheth it. Their effort is for corruption in the land, and Allah loveth not corrupters.

And these:

5:80. Thou seest many of them making friends with those who disbelieve. surely ill for them is that which they themselves send on before them : that Allah will be wroth with them and in the doom they will abide.

5:81. If they believed in Allah and the Prophet and that which is revealed unto him, they would not choose them for their friends. But many of them are of evil conduct.

5:82. Thou wilt find the most vehement of mankind in hostility to those who , believe (to be) the Jews and the idolaters. And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud.

9:30. And the Jews say:. Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!

Jeez--I can go on. The Qur'an is full of intolerance and serves as fervent guidance for those who literally accept the Qur'an on how to deal with Jews, Christians, idolators and non-believers.

Standing by for all the Islamapologists to begin their "peaceful religion" diatribe.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 04:58 PM
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Some of the most sincere professions of faith that i've heard have xome from Muslims; Muhammed Ali, who interviewed by Phil Donahue, and in the intital stages of Parkinson's said "Wine, women, and song. 25 years all gone, just like that. There has to be a God out there, because there has to be something better than this." You could've heard a pin drop in that studio. Malcolm X, who said, "The glory is God's, the mistakes are mine".

Why single out Koran? You're avatar shows the lotus position. Buddhism denies the exsistence of a soul, and that is far more opposed to tradional biblical doctines, than Islam.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 05:08 PM
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This is clearly a discussion based upon Christian beliefs about whether or not another religion is Satanic in origin. As this is purely religious and not conspiratorial in nature, other than God v - Satan, this is being moved to Theology, and again, I am asking people to place threads in the best forums.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 08:42 PM
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Jesus warned us that in the end times prior to his return that many false gospels and false prophets would come forth and deceive many. Islam is one of many false religions and has kept a large part of an entire race of people in bondage to its lies. It’s not uncommon for new religions to start under the proclamation that the founder was visited by an, “angel of god”.

And the Bible does warn us that Satan can appear as an angel of light to deceive someone. Mormonism also started under the guise of angelic visitation. Because of the terrible success of Islam I cannot help but think that Mohammed was indeed visited by a satanic counterfeit. It’s also possible that he made the whole thing up to serve his own purposes. We just cannot know at this time.

What we can know is that Islam is a false religion and not to be believed or practiced in any way shape or form. If you carefully study the Old Testament prophecies and couple this with the events and blood sealed professions of Christ’s apostles you see a gospel that in every way defeats and trumps anything that one man could have done.

All the other men who have started false religions since that time are so obviously man made by comparison that I often wonder how anyone could be so easily deceived.




Galations 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.



Machine



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan
I notice in your avatar you have the arabic for allah. Im impressed that you did not feel attacked. please comment more on this thread



www.vexen.co.uk...

This explains how islam believed certain passages were inserted into the koran by satan.


One must look closely at history. The Quran was compiled from many of the recitors of the quran. Over 70-100 who had memorized the quran directly from the Prophet. There was more than 7 styles .. for the various dialects just a matter of diffrent pronouncation. Ofcourse, everyone has their own opinion.. if you really need to find out more info. Pray directly to Allah (God) and ask for guidance and explaination. Sometimes the heart is so hard (full of hatred) that you can't see what you are really looking for.



posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 06:35 AM
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Originally posted by AgentGirl
Which Passages in the Koran are inspired by what Muslims believe as the Angel Gabriel and which by Mohammed and Mohammeds buddys?

We know that Muhammed was illiterate, personally I don't think that knowing how to read and write makes u any smarter. Though it helps in an argument LOL Ok enough laughing.




I have always had these beliefs about Islam and also Muhammed and Discussing Islam.
1. Muhammed was posessed by an Evil Force or Spirit. " Satanic Verses"
2. Islam has killed , killed, killed and killed more, as did the early Churches in Christianity. has gone into areas only to Conquer and subdue the natives and force Islam upon then and so did Christianity. Who is doing this today?
3. Islam is killing and enslaving people as we speak on the Continent of Africa.
4. I don't speakl about what I really want to say because it would be taken Directly from the " Holy Koran" and I have had enough points taken away from me for quoting the Koran.
5. talking about this Subject will start big fights online and chatrooms because Religous beliefs usually ends up in points taken or death in this LIFE


These are just what you feel or believe.. the truth is that you donot know about islam and its teachings..
Read the Quran and see for yourself.. there are a lot of transalations.. it teaches us a mode of a good life (e.g prohibiting the consumption of liquor) and to worship a sole God Allmighty..those are its main teachings.. no part in it is there as you have put it.
And without knowing all about it or understanding about it..when you pull out such points.. do u mean to say that..
all my families,relatives,friends and i have been followin satan all this time?
we are "bad" and you are "good"?
Please i ask you to understand things before you make such comparisons and make such conclusions.



posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by Machine

What we can know is that Islam is a false religion and not to be believed or practiced in any way shape or form. If you carefully study the Old Testament prophecies and couple this with the events and blood sealed professions of Christ’s apostles you see a gospel that in every way defeats and trumps anything that one man could have done.

All the other men who have started false religions since that time are so obviously man made by comparison that I often wonder how anyone could be so easily deceived.




Galations 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.



Machine



Here we go again.. now how can you just claim that islam is a false religion? its not luring.. people in anyways.. spreading its teachings..yes.
if u see the recent trends.. ull see that many people have taken up islam from various religions and those who have converted into islam did it on their own free will.. because they learned about it and teachings and they totally think its right..(im not putting that the other religions are wrong..i would never oppose anyone's beliefs thataway.. but in tis case i feel islam is being misjudged very much here)..

And regarding satan.. the Quran clearly mentions how.. in judgement day the devil (dajjal) will come up down to earth and how the prophet will save us from him.



posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 07:42 AM
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Grey_Mysterio
Here we go again.. now how can you just claim that islam is a false religion? its not luring.. people in anyways.. spreading its teachings..yes.


Why do you make such an odd statement in defense of Islam? It doesn’t matter if Islam “lures” people away to its teachings or not. The only thing that matters concerning Islam is the teachings themselves. The gospel of the Quran is in total opposition to the gospel of Christianity. The two gospels are completely different. If a person accepts the truth of Christianity that person will spend eternity in heaven with God. If he accepts the false gospel of the Quran he is doomed to hellfire forever and has no hope for salvation.

It’s not the methods involved in spreading the teachings of Islam that concern me, it’s the teachings themselves. Mohammed was not a prophet of God and his teachings, if accepted, lead to death and eternal damnation.




Grey_Mysterio
if u see the recent trends.. ull see that many people have taken up islam from various religions and those who have converted into islam did it on their own free will.. because they learned about it and teachings and they totally think its right..


The followers of Islam have every right to proclaim their teachings. I also agree with you when you say that many people have chosen to follow the Quran. These points are of no issue with me. It doesn’t matter if a person feels that the Quran is right or not the only thing that matters is whether or not the Quran is in fact truth.




Grey_Mysterio
(im not putting that the other religions are wrong..i would never oppose anyone's beliefs thataway.. but in tis case i feel islam is being misjudged very much here)..


This statement is mind boggling to me. So you say that you would never take a stand against anyone’s beliefs even if you knew they were wrong? You would simply let them go on believing a lie and not take any steps whatsoever to help them? I’ll never understand the person who knows he or she has the truth and does nothing to help others find that truth. That person to me is pathetic and worthless.

In what way do you think that Islam is being misjudged? I’m not against the followers of Islam who try to spread their beliefs in a non-violent manner. Now when I say that I’m not against this I mean that I would not want to pass laws forbidding it or use violence to stop it. I will however, keep telling anyone who will listen the dangers and evil behind Islam and try my best to convince them to stay away from it lest they should fall victim to its false teachings.




Grey_Mysterio
And regarding satan.. the Quran clearly mentions how.. in judgement day the devil (dajjal) will come up down to earth and how the prophet will save us from him.


The prophet will indeed save us from Satan but the prophet I’m speaking of is far more than a prophet. He is the Living God Jesus Christ almighty! Lord of Lords and King of Kings, Amen!



Machine



posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by Machine

This statement is mind boggling to me. So you say that you would never take a stand against anyone’s beliefs even if you knew they were wrong? You would simply let them go on believing a lie and not take any steps whatsoever to help them? I’ll never understand the person who knows he or she has the truth and does nothing to help others find that truth. That person to me is pathetic and worthless.

In what way do you think that Islam is being misjudged? I’m not against the followers of Islam who try to spread their beliefs in a non-violent manner. Now when I say that I’m not against this I mean that I would not want to pass laws forbidding it or use violence to stop it. I will however, keep telling anyone who will listen the dangers and evil behind Islam and try my best to convince them to stay away from it lest they should fall victim to its false teachings.









Machine.. you were asking me how i wud let other believe i lie.. if i know the truth about something..
U c ..its just like right here.. where u think islam is false.. where as i dont.. and there might be a lots of people who think your way about it or the opposite.. so which is the truth and which is the lie?
The opposite sides are not going to believe the other true..
same way when i mean i wouldnt be involved in saying things opposing any religion..what i mean is that .. everybody has a faith which they deeply believe in..and you just cannot shake it off them saying its false.. they would never take it.
i live in india now.. but i have been born'n'bought up in the gulf...the country called kuwait..im a muslim and an indian..
well out there in kuwait and back in india.. we lived among other fellow indians who belonged to various religions.. and like a family v co-exist.. and maintain very close relations and will forever.. with this comes a major part of respecting each others faith..we donot argue upon or question each others religion or beliefs.. instead we all do take part in each others festives and joy.. its like that. Our christian friends call us for xmas, easter..etc where as v do the same during eids.. these are just a small example.. because its not only during festives.. we all are together maybe it be an outing , travelling , wedding ..etc and this just christians and muslims im talking about .. where as there are several more religions and sub-religions in india..and from this co-existence comes repect for one another in every aspect.
Now where amongst this would you be wanting be singling yourself out here..and telling all the others that they are wrong?
i go to college.. one of my closest buddies there is a 'HINDU' religion follower.. (hindus have numerous 100+ gods and goddesses)..my faith and his faith are totally unlike..but his belief is the one of his families and wht he would have followed up all his life.. its is not possible for you or me to shake his faith.. what ever you say.. all we would be doing is offending him!
..I know that he would never question me asking about my religions in doubts..because t same way respect he shows back to my faith.Thats the way life is moving...

i hope u got the message what i been trying to convey to you..its simple as i respect all the religions.. but i follow my faith.

Misjudged because.. when u say islam is false.. its totally upon what u believe.. and there will be many who would agree with you or not agree with you.. if u say wht ur saying is true.. they wud say its false..and theirs is the truth.. so u just can say thats the truth because u believe it is so..
again..
Machine..i think u misjudge islam because ur seeing it differently..
the above way of life i mentioned..i bet its like that for many.. that kind of co-exisitng factor is very common..and this is where ur wanting to tell out people to stay away from islam..(maybe it is because ur referring back to the terrorists?..but u shud know not everyone likethat)!!
Also ur pointing out the differnces in both the religions and attaching the differences with something by what u making as a bad intention and false happenin and concluding thats islam.
And so this wont lead anywhere as its become just your religion = right vs. my religion = right
In the end u shud know that ur faith is unshakeable to you no matter what and so is mine.. and everybody elses..
still... Peace!



[edit on 17-8-2005 by Grey_Mysterio]



posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 02:52 PM
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Grey_Mysterio

I live in America and as you may or may not know we have a reputation for tolerance concerning religious belief. I can know that I have the truth in my Holy Bible and know that someone else has chosen to believe a lie and still coexist peacefully with that person. I can tell him to his face that he is lost and in need of salvation and he can tell me to go pound sand! Tolerance does not mean that I have to accept his viewpoint as having any merit. It simply means that we can live peaceably together even though we both absolutely believe that the other one is wrong.

This type of peaceful coexistence is commonly found in western culture but almost impossible to find in Arab culture. In my country I can drive through a town and see a mosque or a synagogue, or even a Church of Satan! All of these beliefs are permitted to exist and the believers are free to propagate their beliefs. Each one of them is horribly offensive to the other but still they coexist. Why in most Arab countries is this also not seen? It’s simple; in most Arab countries they do not tolerate any religion that is not Islam.

The point of this post was not to argue the importance of respecting another person’s religious views. The point of this post was to argue as to whether or not Jesus Christ was both God and the Son of God. It would be impossible for me to argue my position and also maintain a neutral and non-offensive posture.

It’s not my intent to be offensive just for the sake of being offensive. My intent is to win people over to my doctrinal views so as to save their souls from damnation. I’m fighting to keep people from spending an eternity in hellfire.

I love people and I love you. When I say that I love you this love is a Godly love that surpasses understanding. I see you in the same way that God sees you, a man made in his image. But I also fear for you because you have accepted a lie. If you die in that lie you will have rejected the only hope you had by not accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour. This is my one and only purpose for visiting this site.

To reach the lost and bring His light into the darkness. My God commands me to obey him no matter what the personal cost to myself might be. My God commands me to go out into the world and preach the one and only gospel that can save dying mankind from their sins. You say that by doing this I might offend some people who hold to different views.

I’m caught in an impossible position. If I keep silent and do not speak out against anything then men will be pleased with me but God will be displeased. If I obey God and speak his truth I will be seen by many as offensive and hated.

I ask you sir, whom should I obey?



Machine



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 06:59 AM
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I understand what your stating here.
And your way of your belief is true.. because what you really want is to please god and you will set aside any other relation to anything or anybody do that..
Yes i think you are very much right by the way you have decided to obey god and protect people from what you think is wrong.

... where as still i think the same about my faith as you do about yours.. because it has only thought us the good way of living and i believe 'islam' is right..
i think you should try to understand more about Islam and maybe read the Holy Quran..and then you might change your views about it leading a pathway to hell.

Actually machine.. about arab countries somethings you say are right.. but that was the case a long time back.. arab countries do have churches for e.g and many other varieties of religion followers out there..yes they may have been (or some still are) not tolerant about other religions because they think in the way that you do.. they feel that the other religious ways lead to hell.Thats the reason i think.. whereas in india everything is more family-oriented and more peaceful co-existence occurs.
But if things were that bad.. you wouldnt find americans/british/eurpoeans/asians.. etc out there where as they are lots of them out there!!..like i said i was born out in kuwait (arab country) because my dad was working there and i have stayed there for 18 years seeing and watching the arab way of life.
There are a lot of american/british schools for e.g and in such schools u would find these the former and latter mingled with arab students.And i happened to many of them.. and they all thought good of arabs and the countries ways.. (im not sticking up for arabs or something.. because they would tend to show some amount of discrimination to some asians.. because it being their country and all)..and so i found out that the foriegners found them for better than even i did.. and in other countries like dubai and all.. its really very tolerant and being there you wouldnt even think that its an arab country.

Sorry i went a little off-course to tell you about this..

Yes i know christians believe Jesus is the son of god where as we believe Him being our prophet. As for God.. we believe in One Almighty God - to whom directly we pray to, ask to & seek forgivness to.. I do not believe anything being false in such a way of faith.




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