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Why do Brits still use the tactic of charging and bayoneting?

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posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 12:29 PM
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i seen videos even in present time where British troops still train to bayonet a bastard. of course in training its a dummy, but still a dummy. no person would let a British soldier bayonet that guy wen he has a rifle, not to mention a handgun to shoot those Brits. it be like the Battle of Bunker Hill, that would have work. but these days u can mow down those British troops.




posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 12:37 PM
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Shock and Awe - when you have a platoon of screaming and charging soldiers , you do think twice about what to do - in Basra a squad had to bayonet charge , as they were outnumbered and outgunned , so they charged the main enemy position



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 12:38 PM
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Your fighting in a small alleyway, you run into a building and theres a terrorist standing there, within arms real.

While he struggles to raise his gun you can stab him, just makes life easier, its an extra option in combat, when your lifes on the line these things always help.

Besides its not like the gun cant shoot..

Hand to hand combat needs to be learnt and learnt well for urban warfare, just ask the Germans who served in Stalingrad.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by Uncle Joe
Besides its not like the gun cant shoot..


Actually that's exactly what the SA80 can't do.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 01:50 PM
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Lol.

Well I'm pretty sure that the British don't reguarly do bayonet charges. Mostly it's just an option thats nice to have if an enemy is right in front of you. Figure, if you're storming a building or a cramp area a bayonet is a very nice thing to have.

Back in the Vietnam War the tunnel rats would often come up against Vietcong who'd try to surprise them with a bamboo staff around a corner.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 02:42 PM
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The use of 'cold steel' is still a viable military option and Wellington was very fond of it as a tactic to clinch a battle. Back then it was something of a surprise when quite often opposing formations would rather stand and shoot (badly) at each other from close range. The bayonet charge was used considerably and often decisively in the American Civil War.

It remains a viable option because the effect is often psychological damaging on the 'charged'. Break the morale and win the battle. simple as that. It's an option today for breaking out of a bad position (and storming a well defended position) and also when ammo has run out.

Wouldn't fancy it much with a metalstorm around though!








posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 03:12 PM
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I think you will find that in most armies bayonet charges still form a part of basic training, not only for training in what to do at close quarter without ammo, but more importantly the mental training and edge it gives.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 03:54 PM
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The Japanese were very fond of bayonet charges during the Pacific campaign.

This tactic proved very beneficial to the allies during the post-attack cleanup since groups of dead Japanese would be neatly piled in one place.

I have always found this to be very considerate of the Japanese.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 04:19 PM
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"Only an idiot brings a knife to a gunfight."

Bayonets are completely useless other than as a multipupose knife, which is handy, but it should never be considered one of your options, because that will simply get you killed as every soldier has an automatic weapon today.


TPL

posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 04:27 PM
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I suppose in the few split seconds it takes any enemy to reload a gun it may prove valuable.

When you need it and haven't got it, you sing a different tune.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by Raideur
"Only an idiot brings a knife to a gunfight."

Bayonets are completely useless other than as a multipupose knife, which is handy, but it should never be considered one of your options, because that will simply get you killed as every soldier has an automatic weapon today.

Yeah ok, you do relise the knife is just an addon, they still fire the rifle like normal.
Its simply adding a sharp edge to your gun, www.calgaryhighlanders.com...



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 10:59 PM
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I knife can be so freaking useful if you know how to use it. Especially in hand to hand combat.

[edit on 16-8-2005 by RK_Pr0t0c0l]



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by Raideur
"Only an idiot brings a knife to a gunfight."

Bayonets are completely useless other than as a multipupose knife, which is handy, but it should never be considered one of your options, because that will simply get you killed as every soldier has an automatic weapon today.


Uh, has it occured to you that when we trained with bayonets, they were attached to rifles? And, when the enemy trained with them as well, they, too, were attached to rifles?
They are obviously not to be used in such manner when otehr options are available, riiiight? You are aware that most of us who've served knew that we weren't supposed to throw the ammo away, fix the bayonet and start running toward the opposing team, riiiiiiight?



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:24 PM
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You do realize that at some point in a battle, you might want to fight close quarters? I mean if the GPS unit goes balls up, you might actually have to look em in the eye to get the job done rather than playing X-Box warfare.

Like many skills learned in the military or Boy Scouts for that matter (Im an Eagle scout myself) there is some traditional element to it, but bayonet skills are basic infantry skills and are part and parcel of being such.



posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 12:51 AM
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Moving around with bayonet attached to your gun isn't too handy... or even useful. When you're in the range to use bayonet you can simply thrust your barrel to opponents face, it will go deep enough (at least with RK95)

And you don't have to worry about screwing up of the balance and sights of your rifle by the weight of a bayonet.



Or just use:



posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 12:52 AM
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Originally posted by Raideur
"Only an idiot brings a knife to a gunfight."

Bayonets are completely useless other than as a multipupose knife, which is handy, but it should never be considered one of your options, because that will simply get you killed as every soldier has an automatic weapon today.


how fast does an automatic weapon with a rate of fire of 550rpm plus chew through its ammunition? How much ammunition does a soldier carry in his webbing? Even properly observed fire discipline will not save all your ammo.

And the order to fix bayonets is psychological, for you, it helps you get focused and angry. Look at me, I'm a hard bastard with a bloody long metal spike and I'm going to stick it in YOU!

If bayonets only get you killed, why did the Aussies use the bayonet charge as a viable battle tactic in VN?

Why do the USMC still train using bayonets fixed to rifles?



posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 12:55 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Yeah ok, you do relise the knife is just an addon, they still fire the rifle like normal.
Its simply adding a sharp edge to your gun, www.calgaryhighlanders.com...


On the SLR and the M16 maybe. But not with the Enfield individual weapon. Still, they made bayonets for Sterlings and Webleys, too!



posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 12:58 AM
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Here's a point in case:

The Indian Army would not have been able to oust the pakistanis/terrorists in Kargil if it weren't for a bit of hand to hand combat.. Especially the bayonet..
Those guys were soo well dug in..and such well chosen positions that they could
oversee all supply routes and any airstrikes were very risky option for two reasons:

1. They could have escalated the war forcing Pakistan to open fronts at other locations..

2. Technically the war was being conducted within Indian airspace and Pakistan had refuted any claims of the soldiers there being Paksitani (although this was disproved later).. So any IAF a/c couldn't risk the of flying into Pak airspace and be shot down..
So aerial assault had a limited effect..
Infact the IAF lost one Mi-17 and one MiG-23 to stingers..
So the only option was to send bunches of spec ops teams to scale the vertical cliffs while push small army units towards the heights under artillery fire.. The final battles at the peaks were always grenades,bayonets and small arms fire.. Esp. for the mountaineering groups as they had weight restrictions
and could only climb at night...

Bayonets are vital part of any soldiers gear..When one runs out of ammo in close combat its better to use the bayonet than waste time in removing a pistol or a dedicated knife..
Anyone who's played counterstrike will know this!


Indians are mostly equipped with SLRs..


[edit on 17-8-2005 by Daedalus3]



posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 01:04 AM
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It is psychological training. You have to prepare your soldiers to go 1-on-1 with a man and stab him to death. They must mentally know that they will see the whites in the eyes of their enemies.

Another thing, Its a cut and thrust weapon for close quarters battles.

It is also detachable and can be used as a tool.



posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 01:26 AM
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Like anything in war it's all a matter of having something to fall back on. That's been the purpose of the bayonet since we first hung it on a rifle. Ultimately you never should have to use it, but if you do by some miracle get forced into the situation, it becomes your new best friend. So Deltaboy the bottom line is that the bayonet is not a primary weapon that you would use tactically and hasn't been for nearly 100 years. It's totally back-up and when it breaks you pick up a rock a smash the enemy with it till he goes down.



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