Is the New Testament Accurate and Reliable? Archaeology?

Originally posted by ablebodiedman
The method is almost as interesting as the discovery.

ablebodiedman.blogspot.com...


The feedback I have had to date has been either total indifference or even contempt

I vote the latter. When knowledge is thought to be discovered through faith, you get to make up your own truth. In this case, you've concocted this story that Satan was physically thrown to earth as a meteor. Since you have faith, it must be true!

I wonder why this wonderful mechanism of discovering knowledge is not used in everyday life. Why not just plough through a red light if you have faith you can proceede safely? Why should you not use faith to make driving decisions if it is a valid mechanism of obtaining truth?

The evidence is overwhelming that both the New Testament and Christianity are purposeful deceptions and strong delusion. Books such as the Jesus Puzzle and Christ Conspiracy and a very long list of others have done a very good job demonstrating this.

I am about to publish new book on this specific topic that reveals decisive proof that Jesus Christ never existed and that Christianity is a Roman fantasy. It's available as a free PDF download at the following urls.

www.lulu.com...

I present stunning proof that all three faiths of Abraham are false dotrine and purposeful deception, to varying degrees. The New Testament is by far the worst though.

[edit on 24-8-2005 by SevenStarHand]

Originally posted by SevenStarHand
The evidence is overwhelming that both the New Testament and Christianity are purposeful deceptions and strong delusion. Books such as the Jesus Puzzle and Christ Conspiracy and a very long list of others have done a very good job demonstrating this.

I am about to publish new book on this specific topic that reveals decisive proof that Jesus Christ never existed and that Christianity is a Roman fantasy. It's available as a free PDF download at the following urls.

[ link removed ]

I present stunning proof that all three faiths of Abraham are false dotrine and purposeful deception, to varying degrees. The New Testament is by far the worst though.

[edit on 24-8-2005 by SevenStarHand]

Christianity, the New Testament, and Jesus Christ are Blatant Lies, Strong Delusion, and False Prophecy perpetrated by Rome?

WOW! that is a first.... at least for me

WOW! that is a first.... at least for me

Really? He mentions the Christ conspriacy which was written by Acharya. S I think. She raises some interesting points but she does reach for straws none the less.
www.truthbeknown.com...

You really want a first? Download the manuscript from the above provided link

I have been gone a few days, its do hard to catch up!

I downloaded it but to be honest I will not have the time to read it....

Certainly, new findings are coming to light on the original text of scriptures, as has long been the case. For example, the "number of the beast" is actually 616, according to the earliest known witness to the document of Revelations. Moreover, 665 is also found in ancient manuscripts. (An actual photo of the text from Oxford University is included in the second link.)

A wealth of information exists on the original Christian writings due to a wealth of scholasticism during two millenia. Because of the importance of the documents, scholars have researched and written quite extensively, for instance.

The oldest extant and primarily complete Bibles, the Codices Sinaiticus and Vaticanus are obviously flawed. For example, the Sinaiticus was so poorly executed that seven different hands of "textual critics" can be discerned as they tried to impose their views on this already corrupt manuscript. Because of its blatant omissions and alterations, it lapsed into a wastebasket in a monastery, where it was "discovered" by Constantine von Tischendorf in the mid 1800's. As to flaws in the other codex, recent technology, such as the vidicon camera, reveals that the Vaticanus has been altered by at least two hands, one being as late as the 12th century. Also, the Vaticanus omits crucial parts of Mark and Luke.

Now if the oldest known and most complete renditions contain forgeries and other alterations, how can versions passed on by tradition be trusted? As Thomas Jefferson wrote about the New Testament, "...that nonsense can never be explained."

.

Originally posted by SevenStarHand
I am about to publish new book on this specific topic that reveals decisive proof that Jesus Christ never existed and that Christianity is a Roman fantasy. It's available as a free PDF download at the following urls.

www.lulu.com...

Had you also mentioned that you claim to be the reincarnated Melchizidek, you would have saved me the last 30 minutes of downloading and reading the first 30 pages.

The knowledge that the Bible is filled with astrological symbolism is not your original revelation. The knowledge that the Gospel stories basically play out the Zodiac is not new, neither is the knowledge that Revelation is referring to astrological events and not prophecy.

Had you not spent most of the first 30 pages trying to make the claim you are the long awaited one, I might have kept reading. If it were my book, I would reorganize it to show the symbolism first and not even discuss this whole Melchizidek business until after you've proven that you really have unlocked a unique mystery.

I did get an important tibit out of those pages which may convince me to keep reading, which is that Scorpio was referred to as an eagle in ancient times. That was a key piece I missed in my own investigation of astrology in Revelation.

On second thought, I wouldn't reorganize the Melchizidek stuff, I would drop it altogether. If you are who you claim you are, then you don't need to promote that fact as it will be obvious to others. Of course, if you were who you claim you are, you would already have known that.

Originally posted by marg6043
I though Paul was considered a "Heretic" by Jews and early Christian's church.

One of the Problems with Paul is that he was too influenced by Mithra ism, and he die waiting for Jesus to comeback in his life time, like many other Christian followers of the time.

Paul was from Tarsus, and Tarsus was also one of the centers of Mithra worship, even if the cult was already wane their believes were still strong among the people.

Mithra eh? That ones thrown around a lot. Read this

And you better look in Mithradatic religion a bit more. One of the intiation rituals consisted of slaughtering a cow and bathing in its blood and guts before cooking and eating it. Doesn't exactly sound similar to Christianity.

Great post and reserach ed. You got my vote for WATS. I normally don't agree with your political views I'm glad I can agree with you on this issue and you've just done a whole heap of reserach that I've been meaning to do myself. Thanks for that.

Hey D:

Why would you post a link to a guy like Nash, who is not a mainstream textual scholar in any sense of the word, but an apologist for the Christian right ?

"Mithraism" (i.e. the Mysteries of Mithras) was inroduced into the west i.e. the Roman Empire from Persia (where the god is called Mitra) via Cilician pirates in Tarsus in BC 80, and since it was "male only" initiation, it appealed widely to soldiers and statesmen...and became THE fashionable Mystery Religion for the middle to upper classes during the centuries before and after Christianity appeared, even appealing to the royal Caesarian family in Rome (e.g. Tiberius and Nero as well as Domitian and Titus).

The port city of Tarsus (in present day Turkey) was also a veritable capitol of Stoicism with several Stoic philosophers emanating from that region in the time of Augustus and Tiberius....

Since Saul of Tarsus (i.e. Paul) came from this region of the world (FYI Tarsus was the capital of Cilicia) should we be surprised that he used expressions from the Mysteries that were current in his home town? e.g. ("Behold I tell you a Mystery...we shall not all sleep...but we shall all be changed...in a moment!" ) and these phrases were borrowed from the earlier Eleusian (i.e. Demeter/Kore/Mater Megale), Cybele (i.e. Diana/Artemis-Kubaba of Ephesus) the Orphic and Mithraic mystery ceremonies--- all of which date from before BC 500-- and involve the death and resurrection of the god generally in tandem with the earth-renewal festivals at the Spring Equinox every year, much like the Israelites/Canaanites and their Pesach (Spring-Lamb/Passover) festivals in March-April.

The Mysteries of the god "Adonis" was also wildly popular in Palestine from around BC 700 to long after AD 300. He is also known as Atannuzi and Atammuz (see the phrase in the book of the prophet Hezekiel in the "bible" :"behold the women are weeping for Tammuz !") which writing dates from around 480 BC. Tammuz/Attanuzi was also a vegetation god who died and was resurrected again at the spring equinox.

All these mystery cults PRE-DATE Christianity by several hundred years.

Yet Christian apologists like Nash poo-poo all of this as non-essential to their conviction that somehow some way Christianity is Unique.

Newsflash: it wasn't and it isn't. Early Christian writings abound with Mystery Religion technical terms and world-views, from the rite of water baptism to extreme unction.

Even Mark's gospel places Greek "Mystery words" into the mouth of Iesous (R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean) "To you is given the MYSTERY of the Kingdom, but to those outside, everything appears in Parables...so that seeing they may not see, and perceiving they may not understand..."

The dead sea scrolls even speak of "that which is revealed" and "that which is hidden in a mystery", which show that even by 100 BC these ideas were percolating into Palestinian Judaeism's fringe elements.

Some of the earliest references to the early "Chrisitian movement" especially among the early church fathers (i.e. the patristic writings between AD 100 and AD 250) call their new religion "the Mysteries of Christos" partially to differentiate themselves from other Mystery Cults like the Mysteries of Orpheus, or the Mysteries of Dionysius, or the Mysteries of Serapis (which is, contra Nash, is derived from a conjunction of the gods HAPI (Apis) and OSIRIS or Osiris-Apis, not Osiris-Isis...) or the Mysteries of Kore celebrated at Eleusius near Athens, which also have Bread and Wine ceremonies (i.e. a type of proto-Eucharist like the Mithraic ceremonies of Bread and Wine, which pre-date Christianity by at least 100 years).

The Mystery Religions often borrowed from each other, and many Initiates (i.e. Mystes) into one Mystery was also at the same time initiated into other Mysteries without apparent conflict. Many officials of the Mysteries of Isis were also officiating at the Mysteries of the Great Mother, or the Mysteries of Zagreus etc.

The Christiani were one of the few "mystery cults" that demanded sole membership to the exclusion of all others---yet they borrowed much of their ceremonial outer trappings (and liturgical phrases from many of the mystery Cults flourishing in the Roman Empire----from which many of the new Christian church members must have emanated (including the 7 "sacraments" and the titles of their gods, e.g. Saviour of the World, Intercessor, Advocate, Word of God, Lamb of God and Light of the World, etc.).

Or do you think it is all a big co-incidence that "Iesous" was identified with the Sun (cf: the messianic passage in the Hebrew book of "Malachi": i.e. 'there shall arise the Sun of Righteousness with healing in his Wings', etc. ) as was at least one aspect of Mithras who "dies and rises again" having been born on December 25th every year (i.e. following the solar calendar) and having been "born" in a rock cave attended by shepherds?

Originally posted by D
And you better look in Mithradatic religion a bit more. One of the intiation rituals consisted of slaughtering a cow and bathing in its blood and guts before cooking and eating it. Doesn't exactly sound similar to Christianity.

Rev 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Sounds pretty darn similar to me.

Mithra eh? That ones thrown around a lot.

And you better look in Mithradatic religion a bit more. One of the intiation rituals consisted of slaughtering a cow and bathing in its blood and guts before cooking and eating it. Doesn't exactly sound similar to Christianity.

Yes Mithra does get thrown around a bit, especially by those who know nothing of it's origins or history, other than what they have learned from apologist sources.

So Mithraism does not sound similar to christianity to you then? How about this then?

The Saviour was born in the middle of the night between Saturday and Sunday, 24th and 25th of December, 272 BCE, and according to those who believed in Him from an Immaculate (Anahid) Virgin (Xosidhag) somewhere not far from lake Hamin, Sistan, Lived for 64 years among men, and ascended to His Father Ahura Mazda in 208 BCE
www.cais-soas.com...
www.cais-soas.com...

Or does that not sound familiar either?

Yeah perhaps YOU should look into Mithraism more, then you might have a better understanding not only of Mithraism but of Judaism and Christianity as well. Then perhaps you could learn about zoroastorism, then even the heresy Zurvanism, and then you might begin to have an understanding of what exactly the judeo/christian/islamic faiths truly are.....nothing more than a collage if you will, that borrowed material from every culture they EVER came in contact with......which if you are familiar with your history, is the only fact, or accuracy that the Bible can attest to.....

Or, you could just keep reading the bible and give Ed more kudos for absolutely nothing more than blindly defending his (your?) faith.

www.cais-soas.com...

www.cais-soas.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">Zurvanism


[edit for additional point]

[edit on 25-8-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

actaully, most christians now know that christ was NOT born on December 24th/25th (i.e. Christmas) but that was a creation of the Roman Empire to help convert pagens to CHritianity

Originally posted by Jehosephat
actaully, most christians now know that christ was NOT born on December 24th/25th (i.e. Christmas) but that was a creation of the Roman Empire to help convert pagens to CHritianity

If memory serves correctly, Dec. 25 was chosen due to The Festival of Satunallia.

if the new testament is 100% true, then why are their still people who do not believe???

why are they still other religions, when "obviously", the new testament is true...

these are my questions, and guess what, i am a christian

Originally posted by Jehosephat
actaully, most christians now know that christ was NOT born on December 24th/25th (i.e. Christmas) but that was a creation of the Roman Empire to help convert pagens to CHritianity

...or was it because the Christians were already celebrating it, seeing as their own mythology had a common history with mystery religions, and the church decided a bit of revisionist history was in order?

I think it was as a replacement to a pagan day,

but that is just an opinion.

Originally posted by they see ALL
if the new testament is 100% true, then why are their still people who do not believe???

why are they still other religions, when "obviously", the new testament is true...

these are my questions, and guess what, i am a christian

Mine too, plus a few dozen more and, you guessed it, me too...

I have to apologize as the second set of links I provided above were not the correct ones, one does not work, and the other was a mistake (interesting read none the less) I can not edit my post though so....
Here is the link I intended, sorry again.

Zurvanism

www.cais-soas.com...
(in case it does not work again)

On a different note, did anyone besides Spamandham, and myself read sevenstarhand's manuscript? I got through over one hundred pages but it became monotonous and I had to quit. Any thoughts on it anyone?

Anyone else find it funny that a supposed prophet incarnate stumbles into an internet discussion regarding the historicity of another prophet (deity) incarnate and the supposed accuracy of his followers scriptures, only to introduce his own set of scriptures purporting to be the "truth", and irrefutable testament or proof of his identity?

You could'nt make this sheitze up I tell you!

[edit on 25-8-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

Originally posted by Aeon10101110

Originally posted by they see ALL
if the new testament is 100% true, then why are their still people who do not believe???

why are they still other religions, when "obviously", the new testament is true...

these are my questions, and guess what, i am a christian

Mine too, plus a few dozen more and, you guessed it, me too...

It goes back to the Faith thing in my opinioin. God could make himself known, but He wants you to come by Faith.

Originally posted by edsinger
It goes back to the Faith thing in my opinioin. God could make himself known, but He wants you to come by Faith.

true...

BTW, great post ed