greek plane conspiracy

I had goosepimples all over just at the picture of the plane's end tip laying verticel in a dry rock paradise that is greece.

so called facts
+++++++++++

1)plane had run out of fuel and crashed
2)pilots flew over enough airports to land safely
3)high tech fighters escorted plane and observed "no pilots" and people trying to control plane who were obviously conscious and not freezing.
4)people don't just "freeze almost instantaneously", all those people would have enough human body energy aswell as plane insulation\seats to take around a few hours to freeze.
5)people froze at different rates, man on fone txt to friends that people started "freezing"
6)tail end seperated cleanely upto 500m from planed wreckage
7)coroners and early witnesses said that people had frozen solid and had burns on skin even though frozen solid.

this smells fishy to me.

last year i saw something on a new state of water, the states of water are called triplepoints.
the new state proposed a solid crystal like state water that could be made by a type of radiation.

What do they mean by frozen solid? coroners proposed frozen bodies in morgue :s, still frozen in grecian sun? and we are supposed to believe that an air conditioning problem caused this?
haven't planes landed with gaping holes?

Is this a new weapon?
should we be worried, lol

sincereley

If the plane lost cabin pressure at a high altitude, the crew and passengers would have been exposed to extreme cold at 20000 to 30000 feet the outside temperature is far below zero. Depending on how long the passengers and crew were exposed to the extreme cold, it is not hard to imagine many of them being frozen solid.

Also if it was a rapid depressurization of the cabin many would have lost consciousness very quickly.

As for the conspiracy angle, you may want to ask this as well...

Why was the co-pilot unconscious in the cockpit 40 minutes before the crash and why he was alone, with the captain nowhere in sight??

As of this very moment.. NO body of the captain found!





[edit on 15-8-2005 by UM_Gazz]

Originally posted by l_iam

3)high tech fighters escorted plane and observed "no pilots" and people trying to control plane who were obviously conscious and not freezing.

No ..the fighter pilots saw someone unconscious in the cockpit, and someone else trying to control the plane. "The plane was on autopilot at 35,000 feet. The pilots of the F-16s reported seeing one of the pilots slumped over its controls, but did not see the other pilot. They saw two people who they thought were crew members trying to prevent the plane from crashing, a government spokesman said." (from various news sources).

4)people don't just "freeze almost instantaneously", all those people would have enough human body energy aswell as plane insulation\seats to take around a few hours to freeze...
5)people froze at different rates, man on fone txt to friends that people started "freezing"

Individual physiology is a factor here, but basically, yes those people could have frozen very easily given the circumstances. Your body makeup would probably make you freeze at a different rate to mine; and if you're at that kind of altitude, and oh, for example, suffer a blow-out or loss of power, you're going to freeze pretty darn quickly; that's without considering the fact that the plane was on auto-pilot for quite awhile before it crashed (indicating that at the very least, the problem was not "instant loss of power, instant crash").

6)tail end seperated cleanely upto 500m from planed wreckage

And this proves....?

7)coroners and early witnesses said that people had frozen solid and had burns on skin even though frozen solid.

Freezing does not necessarily preclude the presence of burns.

this smells fishy to me.

Why? Are you looking for a conspiracy which might not exist?

"The two Helios pilots had reported an air conditioning problem shortly after leaving Larnaca, according to the Czech Press Agency."

That would certainly indicate to me that there was a problem...

Ah see now those would be points to consider, Gaz!

Where is the pilot?

It's being theorised that there was a female flight crew trying to control the plane at some point, as her body was found in the cockpit.

If, as it's suggested, there was a decompression incident, then the official story so far sounds more likely than any conspiracy, to me.

We've really got to wait and see though.

I find it hard accepting that, i'm sorry

the questions i want answered are:

1)why some people seemed to be ok and even able to text, while others actually freezed solid in the same time.
2)the time difference between freezing solid was different for othe people
3)what the coroners mean by frozen solid? are they actually still solid as in not melted?

***triple point radiation weapon mentioned here***

4)did a weapon cause weakness in structure causing the tail to come off cleanely? pos' leavin' plane to collide futher away

this quadpoint caused by radiation causes water [basically us] to turn into a solid and not back liquid, there was an article i can't find saying that a uni' had created a way of making water turn solid and staya crystalline solid using radiation.

I remembered this at the time because I thought it would be a good weapon *good weapon :p* funny.

I don't see why the others would not be able to at least remove the plane from autopilot and bring it low enough so that they would not freeze. Wouldn't at least one flight attendant have happened to notice after all those years of working, which button turns off the autopilot? Wherever I go and work, I tend to be inquisitive about what's around me, and I think I would have at least picked up a few things on that job. Anyway, you turn off autopilot, push the stick slightly forward, pull back when you're low enough then switch the autopilot back on? The difficult part is landing, though!

Disclaimer: I am not a pilot and have only played "Flight Simulator".

Originally posted by l_iam
so called facts
+++++++++++

1)plane had run out of fuel and crashed

Nope--Post crash fire indicates otherwise. But I defer to the investigators...

Originally posted by l_iam
2)pilots flew over enough airports to land safely

A pilot can't land when he's unconscious

Originally posted by l_iam
3)high tech fighters escorted plane and observed "no pilots" and people trying to control plane who were obviously conscious and not freezing.

False. They reported the first officer "slumped" over the controls.

Originally posted by l_iam
4)people don't just "freeze almost instantaneously", all those people would have enough human body energy aswell as plane insulation\seats to take around a few hours to freeze.

The aircraft was in the air high and long enough for people to freeze.

Originally posted by l_iam
5)people froze at different rates, man on fone txt to friends that people started "freezing"

"Phone text" reports were a hoax

Originally posted by l_iam
6)tail end seperated cleanely upto 500m from planed wreckage

Yep. A high energy impact (300+ knots) will do that

Originally posted by l_iam
7)coroners and early witnesses said that people had frozen solid and had burns on skin even though frozen solid.

Jet fuel will do that

Got any other "so-called facts?"

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum


"Phone text" reports were a hoax

The phone text messaging claims were a hoax? I swear I saw an interview with a man discussing the text he rec'd from his cousin.

Edit: Found this article in a search:

Greek Cops Nab Man in Alleged Crash Message Hoax

www.foxnews.com...

[edit on 16-8-2005 by SourGrapes]

Flight attendants aren't in the cockpit when they autopilot is turned on or off. They are only in the cockpit when they pilots call them forwards or they have to talk to the pilots for some reason.

The text messages were a LITTLE suspicious dur to the fact that they supposedly came from someone in row 26 and he said he could see that the pilots turned blue. After 9/11 flight crews fly with the door closed and locked and don't even let flight attendants in without verifying who they are and why they are there, and looking through a peephole/camera to make sure they are alone.

The people in the cockpit, could be flight attendants that woke up as the plane came down, or were able to get on oxygen. I don't remember hearing WHEN they were seen in the cockpit. The missing pilot could have stepped out of the cockpit to use the lavatory or get a drink of water, or just walk the plane to look for anything suspicious, and gotten buried under wreckage, or thrown a ways from the plane.

Freezing is known ot cause burns. It's called "frostbite".

The latest:

www.planecrashinfo.com...
www.b737.org.uk...

Has Helios released the Passenger Manifest?
Anybody interesting?
Anybody who is a relative of a person of interest?
I buy that they "were frozen solid".
But something seems not quite right...
It takes a long time to freeze meat solid...
Maybe the situation is unique...
I wonder how "frozen" other de-compression air crash victims were found to be by other coroners.
I've seen venturi effects produce frost and ice very quickly on incorrectly assembled carburetors before... maybe it popped a hole in a high pressure area (like the nose?) and air expanding after this opening into the cabin acted as a refrigerant before exitng the normal ventilation system which might be open sensing an over pressure cabin condition? Any Thoughts?

When you depressurize a cabin at altitude, it freezes pretty quickly. When I was flying back from the Philippines, they put the flight info on the moving map, and the average temperature at altitude (FL340) was -45C.

Originally posted by l_iam

1)why some people seemed to be ok and even able to text, while others actually freezed solid in the same time.

The text message was a hoax. Linky

2)the time difference between freezing solid was different for othe people
3)what the coroners mean by frozen solid? are they actually still solid as in not melted?

I'd think that the coroner used the term "frozen solid" to get his message across to a public who aren't generally familiar with pathology terms. He could have meant "bodies were stiff, in obvious states of severe hypothermia with some areas actually frozen solid". I haven't seen the autopsy results though; if they're released, we'll know more, but "frozen solid" could simply mean "stiffness and freezing of first layers down to subcutaneous area and/or muscle layer".

Then again, flesh and organs will freeze at different rates. You've got to take into account what happens at high altitudes (ever wonder why it's very, very easy to get frostbite up a mountain in a ridiculously short amount of time?), and what happens if a cabin has a decompression failure.

There were at least 6 people that were alive, but apparently unconsciou at the time of impact. So they weren't all dead when it crashed, just unconscious.

Originally posted by highgroundsys0p

It takes a long time to freeze meat solid...

The temperature inside your freezers should operate at -18°C (0°F) +/- 5 degrees or so.

Mount Everest (at various points, elevation @ 29,000 feet), in January, has recorded summit temperature averages of about -36° C (about -33° F) and can drop as low as -60° C (-76° F).

This is a considerable difference. "Meat" frozen in your freezer will take longer to freeze than if it were lying at 29,000 feet at -50° F, for example.




[edit on 16-8-2005 by Tinkleflower]

Even if I didn't know where the autopilot was, it still seems that someone could have tried to do something (well, maybe they did but they're dead and can't report on it). At the very least, use the radio to say "Help the pilots are dead and we can't fly the plane". If I were hiring airline attendants, at the very least I think I would want them to know how to use the radio -- "just in case" -- even though they normally would never touch the thing.

I'd also expect the boxes to record something interesting such as voices of panicking people in the cockpit trying to figure out what to do. Maybe that'll help give a clue.

If there were people in the cockpit it would record them.

For the first time I can ever remember hearing about one of the black boxes came apart. The CVR was found with the contents of the box ejected from it.

Here's the thing I can't answer (among several others)...

This dude who has been accused (and arrested) of lying about receiving this text message made the claims almost immediately after the crash. Isn't that correct? Doesn't anybody find that hard to explain? He made claims of receiving an alleged "hoax text message" about conditions that would be in-line with high-altitude decompression. Also, the text messages were supposed to refer to the pilot's face turning blue. Up until now I wondered how in the heck a passenger would know that, but they still haven't found the pilot's body! He wasn't in the cockpit. How do you explain a fake text message having details that go so true with what was going on on that plane.

I can't explain that one. This whole thing is really odd.

strange ( P ) Pronunciation Key (strnj)
adj. strang·er, strang·est
Not previously known; unfamiliar.
Out of the ordinary; unusual or striking.
Differing from the normal.
Not of one's own or a particular locality, environment, or kind; exotic.

weird ( P ) Pronunciation Key (wîrd)
adj. weird·er, weird·est
Of, relating to, or suggestive of the preternatural or supernatural.
Of a strikingly odd or unusual character; strange.


con·spir·a·cy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-spîr-s)
n. pl. con·spir·a·cies
An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
A group of conspirators.
Law. An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design: a conspiracy of wind and tide that devastated coastal areas.


the "so called" events of this tragedy may seem weird or strange, but no one here has even come close to presenting anything REMOTELY close to a conspiracy.


not even close.


was it UBL or AQ ? Ok, make a case with evidence

was it the NWO ? where is the connection ?

was it elvis or bigfoot ? c'mon, give us a shred of something other than paranoia