Churches = Big Business?

Hey, God and Jesus needs to keep up with technology, after all this are modern times and preaching in the prairie and by the lake is not enough Jesus got tired of getting wet, hot and cold.

He needs air conditioned rooms with rooms working stations to keep in shape, and a nice swimming pool to take a few strokes.

Lets no leave out the change of clothes and makeup so it can look good on TV for the the faithful to see how good he looks.

Yes people, it comes to the fact that God or Jesus has not need for any of that, but we humans do.

The humanization of God is call Jesus.

Very simple.

Originally posted by queenannie38
Does God need a parking lot? Does God require a specific building for His people to gather in?

It does say to fellowship together and there's a thousand people who regularly attend so unless we grab a field and do like woodstock every Sunday morning....

Originally posted by queenannie38
The first ones met in their own homes.

Funny you should mention that. We have house churches too. Most meet Sunday nights around 7pm.

Originally posted by queenannie38
That, in itself, is a huge offering members can make! Maybe a private home is not big enough. That's one way of weeding out those (and there are such) that 'go to church' just to go to church. Maybe that doesn't seem practical from a human perspective--but I daresay an appointed building doesn't really qualify as 'practical' in God's perspective. Just venturing there.

It's not a gold-plated building honestly. They did go with brick for durability but no fancy stained glass windows or statues.

Originally posted by queenannie38
That's $101,625 a year, instead of $35,219, that could go straight to the community! People are poor and struggling, wondering if there is a God that even cares--and the ones who feel sure there is a God are keeping Him to themselves in their carpeted, climate-controlled, sound-system equipped 'sanctuary.'

Hm, perhaps I was unclear. We have 59 ministries devoted to serving the community. In these we volunteer time and money (both from the offering and out of pocket) to make these things happen. It does go for the poor, though there is more poor than money in the offering plate because football on a wide-screen seems to mean more than Sunday service.

Originally posted by queenannie38
And what do you do in that 'sanctuary?'

Pray, learn, study, sing. I take notes because it's good to refer back to valuable points.

Originally posted by queenannie38
Learn about God, give some cash for someone else to mail or distribute somehow so that you can feel you've 'given to God?'

There are no secrets in the money. You can paper-trail it easily. In fact, the government requires it. All we have to do is care enough to look.

Originally posted by queenannie38
What have you given to God?

Praise, love, prayer, thoughts, hopes, faith, and song.

Originally posted by queenannie38
What have you given to others in the name of God?

Money, time, work, compassion, and understanding.

Originally posted by queenannie38
This is where the 'hearers of the law' vs. 'doers of the law' comes in. Where the rubber meets the road. What good is all this theological education every Sunday (which isn't even God's appointed day to Honor Him, no matter how you look at it--that's man's day, not God's) do for your 'reward?'

You can "do" enough to earn your way into heaven, sorry to disappoint. However, if you believe in God and love him, then you will want to do and give all you can. It comes from the same compassion Jesus spoke of in "love your neighbor".

Originally posted by queenannie38
Why not get out there, instead of listening to your salaried preacher tell you what doesn't hurt too bad, and help the widows and orphans?? Paint the old lady's house down the street---take the kids who don't have anything to the park and play ball, all the time while doing these things, quietly yet obviously proclaiming you do your acts of kindness of selflessness in the name of the Living God--the God who loves everyone???

My Pastor says the same thing. There's 166 hours/week a person isn't in church. That should be a good amount of time to do some of those things. Minus work, sleep, and personal family...now that's where the challenge comes in, but I hear ya, you're preaching to the choir. Right now I'm involve in the Drama Ministry to teach people about God, have an oversees sponsored child and give food regulary to the Salt & Light Ministry. That's nothing compared to what a lot of folks do there but I'm fairly new...and not a member even of the church.

Originally posted by queenannie38
It is business--and it's not God's business. You may think what I say is nonsense, but I know it is right--not according to me, but according to God. The day will come that you will know it's true. Think about it before then.

A person can do God's business wherever you go. I say this currently challenged doing His work while at my job. I can do it outside of work though all I want and do my best to make it so. I've come to the church and said "use me to do God's work" and surprise surprise, now they're asking me to do more than I can. I'm working into it slowly though, but one step at a time.

[edit on 19-8-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by mrwupy
Boy do I know of that. We have a church here that is so large we call it, "Six flags over Jesus."

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by queenannie38
What have you given to others in the name of God?

Money, time, work, compassion, and understanding.

That is more than most can honestly say. I didn't mean to sound challenging to you, personally, saint4God--it was just your statements that I was answering--maybe as a challenge to everyone--so I'm glad you didn't take it personal. At least you didn't react--you responded, so that says a lot.

You can "do" enough to earn your way into heaven, sorry to disappoint. However, if you believe in God and love him, then you will want to do and give all you can. It comes from the same compassion Jesus spoke of in "love your neighbor".

I wasn't referring to getting into heaven--I mean the 'rewards' that come on judgment day, as mentioned here:

Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
1 Corinthians 3:8-9

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1 Corinthians 3:14

And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Revelation 11:18

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Revelation 22:12

A person can do God's business wherever you go.

Amen.

Originally posted by queenannie38
That is more than most can honestly say. I didn't mean to sound challenging to you, personally, saint4God--it was just your statements that I was answering--maybe as a challenge to everyone--so I'm glad you didn't take it personal. At least you didn't react--you responded, so that says a lot.

Thank you. I wasn't trying to toot my own horn, just represent. As they say you hear from 1 out of every 10 and I can candidly say I know at least that many who do a whole lot more than I do. Still, one cannot buy their way into heaven, yet something that comes from belief and love.

Originally posted by queenannie38
I wasn't referring to getting into heaven--I mean the 'rewards' that come on judgment day, as mentioned here:

Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
1 Corinthians 3:8-9

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1 Corinthians 3:14

And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Revelation 11:18

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Revelation 22:12

I gotcha. I think this is a flashpoint for many Christians. Some Christians believe you can 'earn' your way. Others feel that once you believe "your job is done". Well, per what you're saying here and what I've said, I think both tie into each other. The loving spirit moves the hands to do good.

A person can do God's business wherever you go.

Amen.

Woot!

[edit on 22-8-2005 by saint4God]

Check this out! The 'six flags' comment reminded me.

You have to tell me that is fake?

But, hey. They are building a Creationism Meusem, so I guess it could be.

I thought it was a joke at first, but, checking out various links--I'm relatively sure it's for real--at least to those who it is 'for.'

That's what I call tunnel vision, extreme.

The Catholic amusement park is interesting. I don't think it'd be fair to pass judgement without more than just a 1 page website. I think there's a fine line between "having fun" in a Christian atmostphere and "having fun with" or "making fun of" something that's very serious. Which is it in this case I don't know. One thing I do believe though, is admission should be at cost though I doubt that's the case. Candidly I'm surprised at the loosening of the collar, so to speak, from an otherwise highly traditional form of Christianity.

[edit on 29-8-2005 by saint4God]

oops! unintentional mispost....



[edit on 2-10-2005 by dr_strangecraft]

Saint4good,

Rekigion is the world's number one business. Number 1! Show me in the Bible where it says God was a business man. Tithes were meant to be an offering to the traveling spiritual minds that didn't have skilled trades. So the community or village would offer a percentage of their intake to the spiritual "monks."

Yes, the money does go to the curch over-head, and certain community outreach programs, etc... But I think they are giving the impression that you have to come to a huse of God to have a close relationship with him, therefore have to pay 10% of your income. When anyone with a true connection with God knows they need not go to a house of god when they make their own house one. This is a business and they are benifiting, not on;y with money, but control, they are brainwashed by their own history and tradition. I think that church is overall good, although the system allows room for cooruption, which is what we see a lot these days.

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
Saint4good,

Rekigion is the world's number one business. Number 1!

Wow, seems like people really do give of their own free will! My hopes for humanity are lifted a bit.

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
Show me in the Bible where it says God was a business man.

Well, His Son was a carpenter .

Seriously though, Jesus wasn't a cash-advocate. He did pay the temple tax though as to not offend (Matthew 17:27). He says "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of God...With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible" (from Matthew 19:23-19:26). There's some other examples where money means nothing to God, and in fact can be a burden spiritually than a help.

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
Yes, the money does go to the curch over-head, and certain community outreach programs, etc... But I think they are giving the impression that you have to come to a huse of God to have a close relationship with him, therefore have to pay 10% of your income. When anyone with a true connection with God knows they need not go to a house of god when they make their own house one. This is a business and they are benifiting,

My pastor doesn't make "a rich man's salary" regardless of the church's income. In fact, a staff member I know could probably be making loads more outside of that 'business'. I was thinking about a church job, but it would cost me a $5,000 - $10,000/year pay cut for doing something of equal skill set. Ouch! One has to really love that work to do it.

I'm not saying church is the only place where God is present. He's everywhere. Yes, absolutely you should make your house a house of God too. Yes, you should give just as abundantly everywhere else as well as church. If you know an avenue of revenue that could help someone, then by all means give! Church is suppose to teach us how to give & let go so that when we do it daily, we do so out of love, without reservation or the though of it being "my money". Don't like that idea? Then don't give. Pretty simple really.

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
not on;y with money, but control, they are brainwashed by their own history and tradition.

Ah, there's my weekly 'brainwashing' comment. I was beginning to miss it on some of the other threads.

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
I think that church is overall good, although the system allows room for cooruption, which is what we see a lot these days.

I think a lot of us see it on bad TV examples. Going out into the real world typically tells a different story.

By the way, the church I go to just got the budget for next quarter (I'm not a member, it's in the bulletin). Looks good. Do y'all know they're subject to government audit to make sure there's no corruption?

[edit on 3-10-2005 by saint4God]

Well the 2nd Temple of Herod was also a kind of central bank of the middle east of sorts until Rome decided to, well...burn it to the ground in AD 70.

Foreign governments used to use the Temple as a safe haven to stash gold reserves, and interestingly, the price of gold plummeted by more than 60% on the Syrian gold market in AD 71 after all that lucre finally hit the streets.

And I'll bet you thought the Copper Scroll 3Q15 listing of the Temple Treasury o gold and silver bars was a big fat fake !

So evidently those "little loveable levites" were making quite a killing on all those 3 times a year sacrifices...which leaves little wonder why R. Yehoshua bar Yosef's favourite spot was apparently...sitting across from the Treasury...!

Actually the first "bank" in ancient times was thought to be one of the oldest Temples of Isis in Egypt where the priestesses took in so much dough in fees for sacrifices, they didn't know what to do with it...so they began to lend it out at interest...

Religion and money...hmmm...read all about how all those pesky Levites who wrote all the mumbo jumbo laws of the Torah in Leveticus to keep themselves in, well...shall we say, business--all clearly designed to benefit their own kind on a fairly regular basis....first fruits indeed !

Oh plus ca change !!!

Originally posted by NEOAMADEUS
which leaves little wonder why R. Yehoshua bar Yosef's favourite spot was apparently...sitting across from the Treasury...!

Hm...probably in order to overturn those tables for buying and selling in the temple?

There are many things that I question in many churches, even Catholic ones. I know of a pastor who coerced the parish council into footing the bill for a house - the rectory was 'too public' - and a big SUV. Certainly I've seen the minister with the Mercedes and the expensive suits.

I have seen a lot more simple men and women of faith who toil to better the lives of those around them. My own parish spends a tremendous amount of money and effort for the community - Catholic, non-Catholic, nonbeliever... it's all the same to us. A person in need is a person in need. My parish Pastor drives a car that proves the existence of a loving God every time he turns the ignition. The fact that it runs is truly a miracle.

I know of churches and ministers who sponsor homeless shelters, food kitchens, run drop-in learning centers, provide food and fuel assistance, legal assistance, and other social services - most of them paid for by the members of the church.

Catholic Charities - there is likely one in your community - provides a host of services. I and millions of other Catholic families write checks to support this organization every year. The Knights of Columbus has donated some 3 million dollars - and counting - to hurricane relief.

Are there those who abuse religion for material gain? Of course there are. They will be judged in time. Those who are ignorant or foolish enough to support these 'ministries' are often victims of fear of the 'fire and brimstone' - and let's bring up plenary indulgences; the RC church ended that practice LOOONG ago. I also acknowledge that a number of secular organizations provide some of these services - but they truly are few and far between. Most charitible organizations have roots in religion. The very nature of organized religion - at least in many cases - carries an obligation to be generous with time, talent, and money.

Let's be careful tarring all institutions of faith as being so self-serving and mercenary. There are a lot of good people doing good out there. If you don't wish to support them, fine. But maybe we should be careful about criticizing when we ourselves may have not done much to help either...

Good day and God Bless....

I have a real hard time with churches. I recently found my faith and feel extremely connected with God. I've just wanted somewhere to go to get reasurrance on my views and get answers I am looking for. The funny thing is, the LAST place I think is a good place to go for that is a church. I feel like maybe one day I will over come this church thing but right now I don't see how.
I almost roll my eyes everytime I pass a church. I can't stand seeing the signs out front with some quote that God said or feels or wants you to do. Did God tell them that's what He was feeling that day? If I had a church, my sign would say "this is a church".
Another thing is definately the obvious over spendage for expenses. These elaborate, decorative churches, with their chandiliers and perfectly paved un cracked parking lot and million dollar stained glass- hey that stuff is NOT cheap- must they be so overly done? What is wrong with a plain white roof and walls? The oly reason you should be going is to learn and understand God, not look at all the pretty shiny things.

Originally posted by terra the 1derer
Another thing is definately the obvious over spendage for expenses. These elaborate, decorative churches, with their chandiliers and perfectly paved un cracked parking lot and million dollar stained glass- hey that stuff is NOT cheap- must they be so overly done? What is wrong with a plain white roof and walls? The oly reason you should be going is to learn and understand God, not look at all the pretty shiny things.

Yep, one of the busines--- oops, churches in my town has a solid copper sheeted roof. Copper sheeted and it's a big roof. That is very high dollar. I think hypocracy of this nature is shameful and representitive of the arrogent and materialistic mindset behind such waste.

Originally posted by terra the 1derer
I have a real hard time with churches. I recently found my faith and feel extremely connected with God. I've just wanted somewhere to go to get reasurrance on my views and get answers I am looking for. The funny thing is, the LAST place I think is a good place to go for that is a church. I feel like maybe one day I will over come this church thing but right now I don't see how.

Try'em out! It took me visits to a few different places where I felt 'at home'. For me, I need to be excited about the music (a good band, not yawning hymns) and a message that really makes me think instead of warm fuzzies. This isn't the way everyone is though. I'm sure there are those that are looking for peace in church with hymns, a lot of silence, and reinforcement of what everyone already knows. So, shop around! It's free (you know you don't have to give in the offering....which is why they call it an offering). I'm sure you'll find something you like. Being an ex-church shopper (I've been to over 10 different churches of different denominations depending on where I was living at the time), I might be able to help if you know what style makes you feel best suited. Just let me know what you're looking for, the city and state I'll see what I can find.

Originally posted by terra the 1derer
I almost roll my eyes everytime I pass a church. I can't stand seeing the signs out front with some quote that God said or feels or wants you to do. Did God tell them that's what He was feeling that day? If I had a church, my sign would say "this is a church".

Hehe, some of them do. They read "Church of God" and thassit! The point of church is to be among other Christians to listen, sometimes sing and discuss experiencing God. I feel ya, 'cause I went 15 years as a Christian without a church home ('cause I didn't see a need), but once I got there I was like "wow, how did I miss all this before?"

Originally posted by terra the 1derer
Another thing is definately the obvious over spendage for expenses. These elaborate, decorative churches, with their chandiliers and perfectly paved un cracked parking lot and million dollar stained glass- hey that stuff is NOT cheap- must they be so overly done? What is wrong with a plain white roof and walls? The oly reason you should be going is to learn and understand God, not look at all the pretty shiny things.

There are many, many people who feel the same way. In the earlier protestant tradition, it was customary not to have anything but a building. A lot of churches still hold true to that tradition. Some recommendations for ya are Presbyterian, Protestant, Baptist or Methodist. Check'em out. It'll also give you a global view of the similarities and differences (though there aren't many differences).

[edit on 5-10-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
Yep, one of the busines--- oops, churches in my town has a solid copper sheeted roof. Copper sheeted and it's a big roof. That is very high dollar. I think hypocracy of this nature is shameful and representitive of the arrogent and materialistic mindset behind such waste.

That's weird! I think anyway. Do you know the name of the church? I'd like to see if I can find a pic.

Here's a picture of mine:

No stained glass or bling bling here on this building design. The place is busy like 24/7 it seems. I'm involved in 3 programs, 3 days a week and they would certainly offer more if I said I had the time.

My award for "most humble church design goes to...." *drum roll* *clang!*


"Our church is very visible to the public. Signs are posted both inside and outside of our rental property which is situated in a local mini mall. Many customers of neighboring stores ask us questions about our choice of a meeting place. "

Very convenient! You can fellowship while you get your laundry done or film developed.

I never have understood the modern protestant movement. The services I have been to are full of people proclaiming how Jesus is going to save them and what Jesus has done for them. They praise how great he is without having a clue into what his teachings mean, give money, and go home.
I don't get it.