WAR: Marine of The Year Arrested For Shooting at Nightclub Revellers

Marines teach you to be a killer. I made my husband get rid of his rifle when he left the Marine corps.

I think you are under the sterotype assuming that ALL Marines are man-made killers with a 24/7 lust for blood....am I right?

Some people act like this is a wide spread epidemic...it's not.

ALL Marines are offered counseling when they return from Iraq and A-stan. The problem is that many Marines feel like they will be looked down on or seen as a "wimp" if they seek professional help.....which is totally not the case. Commanders from Generals down to NCO's encourage thier Marines to go get help...especially if they show any symptoms of PTSD or whatever you wanna call it. Ofcourse even with help, not everyone can be helped.....there are some people that no amount of help will ever be able to help them on a large scale.

I think the Marine in the story is one of them cases because of his rare job as a combat mortician or whatever.

If these men had counseling when they returned home maybe these incidents wouldnt happen.

These incidents (especially with Marines) are few and far between. They DO get counseling....but counseling cannot save everyone and help put every Marine.....just like in all things, it's not 100%.

[edit on 15/8/2005 by SportyMB]

you all are over analysing this, i think he was simply mad and the cops didnt do anything so he took it in his own hands.

really, letting your personal bias into everything is not in the spirit of "denying ignorance".

[edit on 15-8-2005 by namehere]

Here we go again. It happened during the war in Vietnam and now the left will try to brand returning warriors as ticking time bombs. The author of this thread takes some gigantic leaps of logic that might or might not be well founded.

Don't fall for it. Many veterans will come home with problems, but just as was the case for returning veterans of the war in Vietnam, most will do well, if they are not smeared and marginalized.

I've lived with the stigma of war in Vietnam perpetrated by the left for my entire adult life. (I was eighteen when I arrived in country and nineteen when I returned.) The veterans of the war in Iraq do not deserve this. The carnage in our streets as a result of illegal drugs on any given day eclipses anything that will ever be perpetrated by all the returning veterans in the next fifty years. Trust me.

So, how many folks here support the drug trade? Hands?

[edit on 2005/8/15 by GradyPhilpott]

If this is marine of the year, Id hate to think what the rest of them are like.

Put the nutjob away for 10+ years, anyone who takes a gun to a nightclub deserves the harshest punishment.

.
The poor guy just wanted to bring the Iraq human meat & blood party home.

Aren't we proud of the blood and gore we have produced in Iraq?

I have heard now you can get flags that are dyed red with human blood.
Comes in Iraqi, American or mixed blood, your choice, all for $39.99 plus S&H.

America, land of the schizo-psycho ghouls.

*American acting innocent* 'Oh My! Did we do that?'

Yes Virginia, you did.
Just thank the NeoAnaCondeleza snakes for it.
.

This isn't a left vs. right issue, it isn't a political issue at all. The fact of the matter is, whether you call it 'shell shock' or PTSD, being a 'wimp', or unable to 'hack it', the reality of war affects everyone exposed to its brutal face. The closer you get, the worse it is.

Its not 'There you go again.' (shades of Reagan, anyone?), its there you always go, trying to rationalize behavior. PTSD is not for returning veterans alone, lots of violent crime and accident victims suffer from it as well. Everyone responds to trauma differently, and there are general categories those responses fall into; anger, denial, bargaining, depression, and acceptance (no, that's with death, but its close).

It is those with dangerous or violent responses to this trauma that really become of immediate concern to society. Many who survive extreme suffering are able to 'compartmentalize' themselves, in effect put up a mental wall, find an outlet, close the door, and seal the traumatic events off effectively forever. I think John McCain is a great example of this, and there are many with varying degrees of success similar to his. It never becomes easy, and my hat goes off and my heart goes out to them.

When there is an incident like this one, it raises two questions for me. What do we do about it, and how do we reduce or eliminate the odds of it happening again? How de we recognize the signs of 'trauma induced violent response risk', and how do we effectively assist those affected in compensating for whatever is causing such overwhelming stress? These people are ready to go off, and we need to find a way to stop them from doing it, and if possible, from getting to that point in the first place. I think compassion and understanding leading to effective treatment is the place to start. Repeat or catastrophic offenses are a different story.

We just don't need our Marine of the Year turning into the next Charles McCoy, Jr., its bad for morale. My heart goes out as well to those young ones injured by bullet fragments, they will have their own trauma to deal with, whatever reason they were there in the first place. Trauma spreads like cancer, except its contagious. Not everyone is capable of surviving it intact on their own.

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Im not sure this is his problem.

America is in denial about what it is doing over there.
We see no true pictures of the daily blood, gore and horror,
or the broken down bullet holed buildings.

Blame the soldier who has seen the truth.

Deny that you have any responsibility for what your nation is doing.

Live in denial.

Does America have any conscious left?
Does America have a soul?

I guess i just need to know what kind of society i am living in.

Are we a society of responsible adults that has some compassion for the destruction we create?

Or are we just a nation of psychotic greed numbed monsters?
.

Originally posted by dgtempe
Marines teach you to be a killer. I made my husband get rid of his rifle when he left the Marine corps.
If these men had counseling when they returned home maybe these incidents wouldnt happen.

God knows he would have shot me by now...

Maybe this would not have happened if the idiots in the streets showed more respect to the rest of the world, huh? Raising Hell and throwing bottles through windows; when do these people get their counciling? Sounds like a couple did receive some, and maybe they'll take it to heart.

Your husband may have been taught to kill by the Corps, but he was also prepared to be a husband as they instilled plenty of discipline!

Just to clear some things up.
I know Dan. I know his wife and her family as well as his 2 little girls.
They don't live in the best part of town.
Dan is a mortician. Now, that's all well and good when your working on old folks that die in their sleep. Being one in a combat zone is...well...you get the picture.

Not only did Dan call the cops on these rowdy people, but when he yelled out the window for them to be quiet, someone threw a glass bottle threw his window. Yep, dan had a couple beers in him, and being a Marine trained to respond, He fired a warning shot with a shotgun.

Probably not the best course of action.

The 15 year old, whatever she was doing out at 3am in the morning, took a pelet in the leg. The 20 year old also took a pellet.

If he was aiming for anyone. They would be dead.

Again, not the best of action, And I know Dan has been under major stress since being back. I'm just glad noone was killed or anything worse happened.

-DT

slank,

I agree that eliminating war and injustice is the ultimate goal, though it may be unattainable for mere mortals. It will probably take the Redeemer Himself to accomplish that.

It is precisely being honest about the bloodshed, gore, destruction, and killing our vets have experienced that will help them come to terms with it, and hopefully allow them to have some peace and productivity around it.

We all live in a world of our own construction, created to a great extent from our experiences, the choices we make, and the attitudes we hold. Please don't let the injustice of the world take away your faith in it. Believe in positive outcomes. Overcome adversity to obtain them.

peace. out.

Originally posted by Mayet
Daniel Cotnoir who was named as marine of the year last month has been arrested and held on US$100,000 bail after opening fire and shooting at a group of revellers outside his apartment, injuring two people. Cotnoir called the police to complain about the noise minutes before the shooting and told police he feared for his families life after an empty juice bottle was thrown into his window. Cotnoir has called police on a number of occasions in the past year regarding noise outside his apartment block from the Puno Finale nightclub. Cotnoir has been charged with attempted murder.

Except for the part about being Marine of the year.

All I can say is living across the street from a rowdy all hours nightclub will give you post traumatic disorder with or without a predisposition to it.

If you're not interested in going to jail, get rid of your gun, buy condoms and salsa and build a rooftop slingshot. No, I'm not proud. But I'm not in jail facing attempted murder charges either.

[edit on 16-8-2005 by RANT]

Check these out! A little search on the net for this nightclub brought up some old articles about this same type of situation happening years ago. Only this time Dan isn't militarized yet. There is a dirty cop involved who's moonlighting as security for this place and giving Dan all kinds of trouble. Plus a few other little goodies you might find interesting.

Thursday, November 19, 1998
Citizen ticketed after complaining about bar where city officer works
www.eagletribune.com...

Friday, November 20, 1998
Chief distrubs by reports officers are ignoring crimes
www.eagletribune.com...

I admit that I am forced to assume a lot about the details involved in this case since none of these articles gives any real useful details. However, I still find myself in pretty much in agreement with both Derek Trance and TC as my previous posts will show.

While I don't think shooting people is the way to handle your problems, it is obvious to see that there has been a long standing problem going on here that has been neglected and may involve a currupt law enforcement too. In such a situation I can start to see why a Soldier or even a True Patriot might see it as their duty to take action on their own to solve an on going problem which the Justice System has failed to correct. Or perhaps refuses to correct because they are actually making a profit from it.

[edit on 16-8-2005 by mOjOm]

Originally posted by Flyer
If this is marine of the year, Id hate to think what the rest of them are like.

Perhaps a little research will answer your question.

4mermarine.com...

hqinet001.hqmc.usmc.mil...

www.leathernecklane.com...

www.dccobra.com...

thundering-third.org...

www.wtv-zone.com...

www.classicpalace.net...

www.dccobra.com...

millennium.fortunecity.com...

www.rootsweb.com...

"Marines are about the most peculiar breed of human beings I have ever witnessed. They treat their service as if it were some kind of cult, plastering their emblem on almost everything they own, making themselves up to look like insane fanatics with haircuts to ungentlemanly lengths, worshipping their Commandant almost as if he were a god, and making weird animal noises like a band of savages. They'll fight like rabid dogs at the drop of a hat just for the sake of a little action, and are the cockiest sons of bitches I have ever known. Most have the foulest mouths and drink well beyond man's normal limits, but their high spirits and sense of brotherhood set them apart and, generally speaking, the United States Marines I've come in contact with are the most professional soldiers and the finest men I have ever had the pleasure to meet."
--An Anonymous Canadian Citizen


"The mission of Marine artillery is to kill as many Godless enemy bastards and their subhuman, immoral cohorts as possible with the least expenditure of munitions and to integrate all supporting fires to restore cave dwelling as an accepted way of life in the former enemy region!"
--A Sign at Ft. Sill, OK.

"'Boots' are new recruits into the United States Marine Corps. During the Vietnam War period these young men were a mixture of volunteers and some draftees. None were senator’s or congressmen’s sons. Very few were from the upper echelons of American society. Most were from hard working, well founded, families that believed in something called the "United States of America". These young men had been schooled in a system that started the day with the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag and the Lords Prayer. Many believed in America and all it promised. Most were patriots.

"Marines are the United States elite military force. There are many specialty forces within the U.S. Military. Navy Seals, Army Green Berets, Army Airborne and other specialty units comprise the elite forces of U.S. Military. Only the United States Marine Corps stands out as an elite force in and of itself. MARINE is a word of respect. Whenever this word is used it evokes images of Spartans, exemplary examples of American excellence. The elite of the elite.

"Marines have a history. They have fought in every major and minor engagement in which the United States of America has ever been involved. Marines are the Presidents guard. Marines are the best we have to offer as a nation. Marines have a tradition. Marines do not surrender. Marines do not leave their dead on the battle field. Marines have an honor. Marines die for that honor. Marines are Americans in the highest sense. Marines guard the very gates of Heaven."
--SGT Bill M. Brower (USMC Oct. 1969 - Oct. 1972)

"The man who will go where his colors go without asking, who will fight a phantom foe in a jungle or a mountain range, and who will suffer and die; in the midst of incredible hardship, without complaint, is still what he has always been, from Imperial Rome to sceptered Britain to democratic America. He is the stuff of which legends are made. His pride is his colors and his regiment, his training hard and thorough and coldly realistic, to fit him for what he must face, and his obedience is to his orders. As a legionnaire, he held the gates of civilization for the classical world...today he is called United States Marine."
LTCOL FEHRENBACH, USA, in "This Kind of War"






[edit on 2005/8/16 by GradyPhilpott]

in my view;
What makes someone a good soldier, probably does not mean they would be a good "person". It's hard to explain (after two days of not sleeping). But you need a certain instinct to kill a lot of people can't do it - even those in the Army.

If there wasn't a war and the man doing the shooting a Marine would we even be having this discussion? Anybody read about President Bush's neighbor firing off his shotgun to drive away the protest party that sprung up on his property? I live near a club and have had beer bottles tossed through my windows both house and car. There was a Supreme Court descision a few months ago that found that the police are under no obligation to protect you or your property. The man called the police, if he was the psycho mad killer people are trying to make him out to be he wouldn't have thought to call the police. I think that he was just sick and tired about the noise and hassle that club was causing him. If I lived ther I might have done the same thing and I have not been trained to be a killer by the military. This is just plain media hype as is the amount of his bail. The Judge is thinking "I need to get re-elected. With all of this media attention I can't be seen putting a crazed killer back on the street.". The guy is going to be charged with unlawful discharge of a firearm and Reckless Endangerment, pay a fine and maybe get probation or a suspended sentance. The very fact that he is a trained Marine is why there is not going to be an Attempted Murder charge. If he gets a good lawyer he might not even be charged. Lets just see this for what it is. A man sick and tired of having his property damaged and his sleep ruined by a bunch of inconsiderate idiots and he tried to do something about it!

To FLYER, I was never a MARINE. Marines are special type of people. They are the type to take a hill full of machine guns, spit and ask What's next? Being an Army retiree, and had my butt in the grass, I understand what this Marine feels. Also, I know first hand what it is to "pull a tour" come home and get crapped on. If a bottle came through my window, I know I would feel the same way, and so would everyone else. My advise, enlist for a tour, do it, and then come back and talk.