Is Gaza Pullout by Israelis Legit, or a Setup for Palestinians?

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posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 12:01 PM
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I have a strong feeling the Gaza Pullout is going to go completely to pieces and am very concerned about the region falling back into even worse civil conflict and becoming the flashpoint for the big one to really get started. Does anyone else on the board share this sentiment?

The timing and schedule of the withdrawal, along with the existing tension amongst Israeli settlers, the Israeli government, the Palestinian people, and the Palestinian Authority, not to mention the chronic tension between all nations in the region, the war in Iraq, and the nuclear issue in Iran, has my attention squarely focused on this pullout as possibly the first domino in a chain of disaster. There is bound to be some serious conflict behind it. Will it be contained locally, and not escalate out of control? Will it be used as an excuse to widen the war?

I'm really curious about Israel's role in all of this. Do they truly have peace with the Palestinians at heart, or are they going to use the conflict caused by the Gaza Pullout to justify more stringent 'I told you so' measures against them? The forcible relocation of some 9000 settlers and the complete destruction of their homes is going to cause a major disruption in Israeli society.

Again, I'm very concerned about the backlash. It is going to give impetus to Netanyahu and the hardline right, and history has shown what happens when they run Israel. Hardliners in control of Israel will destabilize the situation further.

Hang on to your hats, I think this one's gonna be a doozy.




posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 04:14 PM
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Lots of coverage of the Gaza Pullout on cable news today. Israeli propaganda minister, I mean Ambassador to the U.S., Daniel Ayalon has really been pouring it on the last couple of days. There was a call-in show on CSPAN today where he appeared and took some interesting, not entirely supportive calls, followed by the Arab-American League spokesman, who came on to say that Sharon making this move unilaterally has short-circuited the Palestinian Authority effort to prepare for the withdrawal and jeopardized the flow of the process, effectively leaving a power vacuum in the wake of the Israeli pullout from Gaza, destabilizing the transition to Palestinian Authority control.

Kind of exactly what I was concerned about. I keep praying that the pullout, starting at midnight tonight, goes smoothly, and any backlash is confined locally.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 04:42 PM
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Icarus Rising, your agenda is uncovered and revealed:


Israeli propaganda minister....


You are not seeking objective discussion.
Anyhow, I did find it interesting that in all your active and objective Gaza Pullout news viewing today, you forgot to mention that even a few Palestinian officials indicate that after the Israeli pullout from Gaza, Gaza will become nothing but a cesspool of terrorist activities, directed against whom, Icarus Rising? Even 15 year old Palestinian kids know this.

Hamas has stated they will not put down their arms, despite the Palestinian authorities demanding such. Furthermore, Hamas vows to continue to fight and attack Israel after the Gaza Pullout. No problem with you, huh?



"This is a message to the Israeli enemy that resistance will continue and that the removal of the occupation was a result of this resistance that will continue. We will maintain and preserve the arms of resistance and we will increase our force and arms to liberate all of the Palestinian land. Palestine is not only Gaza.

Hamas militants refuse to disarm

Interesting that to Hamas, as with other Islamic states, organizations--terrorist and those not, they see the nation of Israel itself as 'occupied Palestinian territory', meaning what, Icarus Rising? That no matter how much Israel gives back or pulls out of, nothing will ever really be good enough till the existence of the nation of Israel is nothing, nada, gone, correct, Icarus Rising? And I would wager, that you have no problems with this, as well?

The establishment of a Palestinian state will not end the situation in this region, because the underline goal(s) will still exist till Israel ceases to exist.






seekerof

[edit on 14-8-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 05:52 PM
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Easy, tiger.

I'm not pro-Israel or pro-Palestine, I'm pro- peace and prosperity for all, which seems impossible over there given the polarization your response so pointedly exhibits.

Before you go pouncing on what you perceive to be my hidden agenda, allow me to make a joke about the Israeli Ambassador to the U.S. and all his exhortations on TV the last couple days, it has been pretty obvious he's doing the hard sell.

It is precisely my concern that Israel may become a bigger terror target than ever in the wake of the pullout. Further destabilization is exactly what we don't need in the mideast right now.

What I'm wondering is whether Sharon's unilateral Gaza Pullout is helping or hurting the peace effort, postponing or hastening the inevitable, if you will. I'm not sitting here going 'FALL, YOU FASCIST STATE OF FAKE JEWS', if that's what you think.

Was that four or five times you used my screen name? Give me a break Seekerof, Seekerof, Seekerof, Seekerof, ok? I'm as worried about how this fiasco turns out as you are. I don't want to see the Rapture start tomorrow and the Tribulations the next day any more than you do.

peace. over.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 06:37 PM
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as posted by Icarus Rising
Was that four or five times you used my screen name? Give me a break Seekerof, Seekerof, Seekerof, Seekerof, ok? I'm as worried about how this fiasco turns out as you are. I don't want to see the Rapture start tomorrow and the Tribulations the next day any more than you do.


Fair enough.
I offer my humble and sincere apologies if I mistook what you may have been saying in jest. Sorry.

Peace.




seekerof



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 07:07 PM
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No apology necessary, just needed to clarify my position. On re-read, I did make it sound in my second post like I doubt Israel is on the up and up. I know for sure Hamas will be satisfied with nothing less than the destruction of Israel, and that, with the other terror groups following suit, is driving the problem.

This Gaza-West Bank pullout - settlement destruction - finish the wall thing looks to me like Israel pulling back to fortify a defensible perimeter. Maybe they have intelligence to suggest a coordinated, all-out attack is coming soon, and they can't wait for the PA to get its act together.

Either way, the official pullout has started and the conjecture about its outcome will soon be over. We'll be dealing with the fact of it.

Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. I know I come in on a questionable slant sometimes, but I do mean well.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 08:02 PM
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I tend to agree with the Original Poster that the Gaza Pullout is not a move towards peace by the Isreali Government. It is either 1, The Extreme Right Jews will attack the Arabs in the Gaza, inorder to destabilize the peace process...or 2, that Isreal knows that the Big War is coming and is now giving away the land that it knows it can't defend and moving the people inland, while tightening the border with a fence that has posted armed guards every click or so.

My money is in the stock market... and I think that tomorrow is going to be a good day to short some choice picks.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 10:32 AM
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Very interesting again yesterday watching Dan Gillerman, Israeli Ambassador to the U.N., give his press conference at U.N. headquaters in New York. Timed to co-incide with the 60th council and anniversary of the U.N., Gillerman presented the U.N.'s 'tab', if you will, for the Gaza Pullout.

He asked that the U.N. 'get off Israel's back', so to speak, with the yearly cavalcade of resolutions against the various offenses Israel is historically accused of. He asked that the U.N. recognize the 'human cost' to Israeli settlers in the region, some whose 'million dollar villas' would be bulldozed to make way for Palestinian 'apartment complexes'. He repeatedly made Biblical references to the withdrawal pitting 'brother against brother, father against son, and son against mother' in Israel. He highlighted the $2.6 billion this operation is costing, and the education and agricultural infrastructure that would be left behind for the Palestinians to utilize. He said the PA would now have 'complete autonomy in Gaza', something I find difficult to believe. Both that they would have it or be able to employ it effectively to stop terror attacks from originating on the Strip.

Mr. Gillerman, when asked about the potential future benefits cost, defense, and population wise for Israel, side-stepped the question, again citing the 'human cost' to Israel and repeatedly pointing out that these territories were 'conquered in a war of aggression waged against us', and the dream of a 'Greater Israel' that initially prompted PM Sharon to build the settlements had consumed Israeli politics in the 70s and 80s much the way the destruction of Israel has always consumed Hamas and other terror organizations. Things were different now, and it was time for a '"New Reality" on the ground in the region' he said. Valid points, but off topic. He concluded the conference with no reference to the benefits Israel would derive from this move. He wasn't there to discuss that.

My question now is, when the first terrorist rocket from Gaza following completion of the pullout lands inside the new perimeter, or the first homicide bomber that can be traced to Gaza blows up a bus, what will Israel's response be? Will they try to co-operate with the PA in an attempt to bring those guilty to justice, or will they turn around and send in the IDF to flatten all of Gaza? Just curious, not biased.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 10:47 AM
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The pull-out is not legitimate in the first place, because of the harm it is doing to the Jews who were living there. It will bring absolutley no peace to the Israelis because their enemies want no peace with them, and they will give the Israelis no peace.

The Palestinians are pawns used against the Israelis by the rest of the Arab world, which is why they have never been assimilated.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 10:54 AM
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I can't disagree with that.



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 02:16 PM
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For all you morons who think the middle east is the 'hot spot' in the world, wait till China starts their rampage in Asia with the full backing of Russia. If you're of draft age you better start living it up NOW



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 02:46 PM
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I must say, I had wondered if the strip was being cleared as a 'buffer zone' or a DMZ of sorts......and the Israeli gov. was wanting to get it's citizens out of harms way but without coming right out and telling them, thereby 'tipping their hand' to any plans they were considering, or any intel they had about what someone else was planning.?

Some spokesman....perhaps either the ambassador to the UN or US was being interviewed on CNN (and no,sorry, I don't have a link ).....he mentioned that 'it would make any future situation easier to handle'......which could be taken to mean almost anything.

Only time will tell.

Also, unless there was some reason to rush into this, why didn't the gov simply buy out those people who had homes there? At least the impression I got was that the ones being moved out were not compensated.....were they?

[edit on 20-8-2005 by frayed1]



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 03:11 PM
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For all you morons who think the middle east is the 'hot spot' in the world

That includes a lot of the "morons" on ATS. Way to make friends.

Of course this is a setup. Do y'all think Sharon has become a peacenik overnight? No. He's completing his wall and preparing for war.

There's some reason these people are fighting over this crap land (well, compared to the pine trees, mountainscapes and waterfalls where I live, it's crap land) that they all covet so much. I don't know what the reason is, but one things for sure: Some of these jewish settlers/squatters are really, really confused people. I mean what is with all the snotting and crying on themselves? They should be upset at their whole belief system, frankly.

I mean, who told them they could go "settle" land that has millions of Palestinians in it? Now they get upset because they're being told to leave? Don't they know that their settlements were just chesspieces in the first place?


[edit on 20-8-2005 by smallpeeps]



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 08:23 PM
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Sharon is the one who told them they could live there when he was in control of settlement development in Gaza back in the 70s and 80s. Now he is the one telling them to leave. Ironic, isn't it?

Yes, there is compensation for the settlers being relocated. From what I heard, it was fair market value plus a bonus if they left peacefully prior to the deadline, a somewhat smaller bonus if they stayed past the deadline but still left peacefully, and no bonus for those that had to be forcibly evicted, and those could face 'repercussions'.

I don't see China invading Taiwan or rattling sabers on the Tibetan border right this second. There is much, much more immediate tension in the mideast right now. I'm not saying the situation in the far east couldn't deteriorate rapidly over this latest spying incident, but I for one am not one of the morons out there waiting for the Red Army to get started on the march for Armageddon. Are you, AtlantisAgain?





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