Creation, Evolution.. Or something else?

I believe that science offers the best explanation for our human existence in this world. The theory of Creation seems to be a matter of faith.

We as humans, who have such amazing abilities, talents and knowledge of our own world, and can look at our massive universe to solve even more mysteries. You are looking at a screen created by humans.. Connected to a computer, accessed the internet.. And are able to comprehend what you are reading now. Think of all the things you can do.. Imagine all of the possibilities and ponder your own existence. We can fly! Explore space! And create technologies that can be far more advanced than our ancestors could have ever dreamed! However they did, for it was their imagination, skills and Brain Power that helped us get to where we are today... Right?

Science tells us that we evolved from primitive apes starting some 2 Million years ago. Biblical creation tells us we were created by a super being or God some 10,000 years ago. What does logic tell YOU?

How is it that we can communicate as we do? Why are we able to understand our human condition, life, death, and all between? Why to we have such a strong desire to learn more?

Are we human or are we animals? .. Or perhaps something else?

Were we created, or did we create the theory of creation because we were confused and unable to explain our own existence?

No other animal on this planet can do the things we can, however we are like them in many ways.. We hate, we kill, we reproduce. We can be seen as both good and evil. Are we human or just an advanced pack of wild animals?

What if?

What if neither evolution or creation is correct?

What if some 80,000 years ago an even more advanced race of beings found our world while on a quest for knowledge about this universe and the origins of ALL life? What if perhaps they seen in early humans something similar to themselves? And through their own science were able to see these primitive humans as an opportunity to experiment, research and test possibilities with our species?

What if they found a way to combine some of their own genetic material with that of primitive mankind, and were successful? What if “they” have been returning here on a regular basis to monitor and test the results of their grand experiment? Could they have been feeding us technologies through time? Seeing how we learn from it?

Could it be?

Is this possible?

When it comes to our own existence, perhaps the greatest mysteries are hidden, and will never have a real answer.

Creation or Evolution.. What if we are looking in all the wrong places?

Then again, maybe we are all just smart monkeys!



Gazz



[edit on 14-8-2005 by UM_Gazz]

This is a GREAT thread UG! very thought provoking indeed! I to think along these lines and wonder much the same...........

Maybe an ancient Alien race found the planet of smart monkeys and zapped our DNA with extra smartness? But our monkey genes still keep us in this weird state of tribal warfare? Maybe its time for yet another 'smartness zap'?? Or can we as humans elvolve away from such primitive thinking on our own?

There are certain aspects of the human condition that make me believe in "Intelligent Design". Humanity is just almost too perfect. In the sense that we evolved in the first place. I believe in evolution by the guiding hand of God. Why else would humanity have arose from all the turmult. Being that our ancestors surrived all the odds against them. Back to the first mamals. We are lucky our oldest ancestors were not over run by other species. Then even then when humanity came about what made the primitave man so different than the other species on earth? Why were we so lucky to gain a larger brain? How did we come up with such tools and ideas to keep us alive? most of all Why did we get smarter? why did primitive man have such a big brain and thinking capacity if it was never to be used; and the same for us. How did we survive in the world where the climate was ever changing and animals were always out for a meal when men rose against men and there were less than 1000 of us. Its almost impossible to think that the secquence of events would lead us up to this. But science tells us that it is simply something that had to happen.

Think of the odds of someone like enstine? It had to happen eventually in the millions of people someone had to become him. Just the same, they say that something had to arise from the terror; us.

I still feel that its all too much chance and hope. too much of a miracle.

I will be a littler more daring and will said that perhaps our humble origins started with the help of a higher and more advance "intelligence" no necessarily a "God" but perhaps some other source in the universe perhaps from another planet or species.

The universe is vast and is many things that are still to be discovered that are not from this earth.

Hi all this is my first post so here goes.
Firstly with all the available data, facts and theories the only true answer is that we don't know what happened at the beginning, it could be God's work or it might be evolution or everything does not exist and we are just imagining it all.
Secondly because anything is possible we have to turn to the probable to get any sort of hypothesis. So the probability of God creating everything in 6 days is slim to nil (it also makes no sense as the God portrayed by christians is not the same God as seen in the bible). The probability that we evolved from free floating amino acids and primative apes is higher but still has glaring errors that also make little sense. Therefore the third theory of intervention by intelligent being (be they alien or otherwise) seems to be much more likely (still has errors ).

But as I said WE DONT KNOW and probably never will

G

Were we created, or did we create the theory of creation because we were confused and unable to explain our own existence?

That, in my opinion is exactly what happened. Reigion was used as a context for the unexplained. Now with all the scientific breakthroughs we have had in the past century or so, does it mean we should stop all religion? Yes. For this would stop all religious crusades and wars. Sure I believe there is a god but he did not write books and commandments for us to follow and does not exist as an entity but is EVERYTHING. It gave us something to follow, not in books and sacred texts but rather in our hearts and minds.

Example:
Thou shalt not kill -- Kill what?? You try explaining that to the Lion or Tiger that has just killed some prey so it may survive. Same goes for humans, Apes, monkeys, dolphins, whales, sharks etc. etc. Death is apart of life, those who don't want to believe this are fooling themselves.

I am on the fence about the whole ET made us theory........What, with us being able to now create "master" stem cells how long will it be before we'll be able to create our own unique lifeforms. Sure its possible that Aliens created the human race but how would we ever Know?

It will be interesting to see how this thread turns out.

~Peace ~

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
I believe that science offers the best explanation for our human existence in this world. The theory of Creation seems to be a matter of faith.

We as humans, who have such amazing abilities, talents and knowledge of our own world, and can look at our massive universe to solve even more mysteries. You are looking at a screen created by humans.. Connected to a computer, accessed the internet.. And are able to comprehend what you are reading now. Think of all the things you can do.. Imagine all of the possibilities and ponder your own existence. We can fly! Explore space! And create technologies that can be far more advanced than our ancestors could have ever dreamed! However they did, for it was their imagination, skills and Brain Power that helped us get to where we are today... Right?

Science tells us that we evolved from primitive apes starting some 2 Million years ago. Biblical creation tells us we were created by a super being or God some 10,000 years ago. What does logic tell YOU?

How is it that we can communicate as we do? Why are we able to understand our human condition, life, death, and all between? Why to we have such a strong desire to learn more?

Are we human or are we animals? .. Or perhaps something else?

Were we created, or did we create the theory of creation because we were confused and unable to explain our own existence?

No other animal on this planet can do the things we can

?

Chimps use tools, many animals have a primitive sort of language, and lots of animals 'play' and seem to genuinely experience a joi de vive. And famously chimps and other primates will savagely murder one another, even have near genocidal wars with other 'tribes' over not very much. Interstingly, its been observed that some chimps have a ritualistic tribal dance, with members of a group dancing, with footsteps in rythm (not simply walking along), and often this occurs around a large pole/tree, which is all very similar to the ancient tribal dances that are out there.

THere's nothing like humans, but then again, there's nothin quite like chimps, reptiles, dogs, etc either. The differences between man and animal are largely a difference of degree, not a difference of type.

What if they found a way to combine some of their own genetic material with that of primitive mankind, and were successful?

I'd think that there'd be evidence for it, and also it seems extremely unlikely that aliens from another planet, assuming that they exist and come here, will have a genetics that can 'match' with that of genetics on earth. They'd have to use DNA, which is not a given, and they'd also have to have the same genetic code (the code is what codon (a set of three a, c, g, etc) 'means' what amino acid, and thus permits proteins to be built).
Even given that tho, I'd think that we'd find evidence for non-terrestrial genes in man. Chimps and man share a lot of genetic information, and the stuff thats different doesn't bear evidence of being of alien manufacture.

This doesn't mean that these things didn't happen, but we have to be very careful about saying that they did when we don't have eivdence for it.

? Could they have been feeding us technologies through time? Seeing how we learn from it?

Human technology seems to have progressed rather normally, sometimes quickly, undoubtedly, but there aren't, so far as I know, any 'gaps' that would indicate outside influence was needed.

mizar
We are lucky our oldest ancestors were not over run by other species

Every living species is equally lucky, by definition. None of the species alive today have any 'extinctions' in their lines.

Humanity is just almost too perfect

Humans seem pretty darned imperfect. They loose vision, grow cancer, their skin gets all wrinkly, they die, they get sick easily, they have vestigial organs, etc etc. Don't seem anything close to perfect. They're not very different, anatomically, from chimps.

Why were we so lucky to gain a larger brain?

Why do you consider it 'lucky'? Most people appreciate having a brain, but the animals that have underdeveloped brains aren't terribly off.

why did primitive man have such a big brain and thinking capacity if it was never to be used;

Primitive man used his brain every bit as much as modern man.

But science tells us that it is simply something that had to happen.

Science does not say this. Things ended up happenign the way they did, it wasn't destined. Selection pressures for walking up-right and having a larger brain were applied to the primitive ancestors of man. Thats about it.

I am not sure if this ties in with the topic but a few months back I was having the old Evolution – Bible debate on another site and having become frustrated with the die hard Christians this is how I ended the “debate”

......I am going to stop now, I am going to briefly describe my whole belief system, and right or wrong here it is. After that I am not going to post another comment about religion (it’s making my head hurt)


First and foremost I believe there is some kind of divine power/energy something much greater than mankind.

However the God of the Hebrew bible is not my god, this creature (a god who is prejudiced, narrow minded self – righteous, psychotic, condones encourages and even takes part in mass genocide) does not deserve my respect let alone my worship.

The God I believe in is a, forgiving and just God, I see this all around me, it could be when I watch an American fire fighter risk his own life by swimming into a flooded river to save a young child or when a local girl in my town sacrifices her spare time to help disabled kids.

This is my God.

Where does Evolution fit in?

Scientists can tell us a lot but what they cannot do is “create life” from chemicals alone. For me it was God/energy who created the “spark” and through the beautiful process of Evolution we are here. Not by some 7 day magical extravaganza.
And in the end if I am wrong at least I believed in a God that earned my faith.

Amen

Actually what does this make me an evoltionist or a ID'er, hmmm

[edit on 18-8-2005 by miss_terry]

evolutions a load of crap

Originally posted by evilfrog16
evolutions a load of crap

correction, evolution is fact.

Evolution may have a scientific basis but it still doesn't adequately explain many aspects of human existence.

G

Originally posted by shihulud
Evolution may have a scientific basis but it still doesn't adequately explain many aspects of human existence.

G

Perhaps, but placing a omnipotent being as the creator as the answer is incorrect. If evolution can't completely explain all aspects of human existence, this means one thing, it hasn't gotten there. That is why it's the theory of evolution, so it can be modified and expand when new data arrives.

Originally posted by miss_terry
First and foremost I believe there is some kind of divine power/energy something much greater than mankind.

I think that most forces in nature are "greater than mankind." While mankind has its merits, man is weak and feeble in comparison to nature and natural cycles.

Originally posted by miss_terry
The God I believe in is a, forgiving and just God, I see this all around me, it could be when I watch an American fire fighter risk his own life by swimming into a flooded river to save a young child or when a local girl in my town sacrifices her spare time to help disabled kids.

The same situations you describe that inspire you to believe in God inspire me to believe in mankind.

Originally posted by miss_terry
Where does Evolution fit in?

Scientists can tell us a lot but what they cannot do is “create life” from chemicals alone. For me it was God/energy who created the “spark” and through the beautiful process of Evolution we are here. Not by some 7 day magical extravaganza.

The goal of duplicating abiogenesis in a laboratory is closer every day. Rren just brought to my attention a new development that I will have to look into in greater depth - one that takes the Miller Urey experiment to the next step in causing amino acids to form into peptides. There is a thread on abiogenesis in this forum that you may find interesting.

This is not to say that a powerful force didn't create life - the universe and all its workings is indeed a very powerful force. It's just not necessarily a personal or personally governing force.

Originally posted by miss_terry
Actually what does this make me an evoltionist or a ID'er, hmmm

I think the term "evolutionist" is kind of meaningless as a description of an individual. I don't really know, though, maybe you're just "a spiritual person who believes in evolution."

Zip

EDIT Corrected a dangling participle.

[edit on 8/28/2005 by Zipdot]

Agentdemon dont get me wrong I dont believe in an omnipotent being either, that makes less sense than evolution. But there are certain aspects of human evolution that defy the evolutionary construct. Take the point of man domesticating plants like wheat,barley etc now it would take many generations to evolve a grass into a food bearing plant therefore why did man persist to evolve the plant as it would be a nonviable foodstuff for many years and also where did he get the knowledge that if he done so with certain plaints he could control the plant for food. I know this has nothing to do with Human evo but the principle is the same.


G