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Top Cop: Terror Camps In Wales

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posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 09:08 AM
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A senior police officer who played a leading role in the investigation into the July 7 bombings has warned that islamic extremists are running terror camps in Britain´s national parks.


Top cop warns of Welsh 'terror camps'

Aug 13 2005


ISLAMIC extremists are running terror camps in Britain's national parks, a senior police officer has warned.

West Yorkshire chief constable Colin Cramphorn warned "indoctrination" and training camps were operating throughout the UK, including places such as Pembrokeshire, Snowdonia and the Brecon Beacons.

Mr Cramphorn has played a leading role in the investigation into the July 7 bombings of London because the suicide bomber team was based in his force's area.

Mr Cramphorn, a former deputy chief constable of the RUC, argued that the police need greater powers to combat the extremists' efforts to radicalise young Muslims.

The chief constable also told the magazine that his greatest fear was of a young suicide bomber seizing a chlorine tanker on the M1 and driving it into the middle of Leeds.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

We gotta do something about these extremists, but what can we do? If we mess up this, then there will be more recruits lining up to become a terrorist. And we don´t want the extremists on the other side to gain support either. We don´t want racism and we don´t want anarchy or civil war. How can this problem be dealt with?




posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 09:14 AM
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Im not sure, but it's sad to see a european country turned into a terrorist training haven. why in the hell would the britains allow so many muslim immigrants? Why would they allow them to set up trining camps in their national parks? Do they have no national pride anymore? Maybe britain's apathetic attitude is finally coming back to bite them in the ass.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 09:19 AM
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Xphiles, I do not think the British people are "allowing" the camps out of "apathy". All over the world terrorist are setting up shop, even in the US and law agencies (state and federal) are attempting to find them and disban them. But like with anything criminal and evil, it is not as easy as just walking up and saying "is this a terrorist camp?". Catching them and proving it can be a long process depending on the gov't rules. You know, at some point people are going to have to get involved and help. People that want to prevent this cannot just sit in there house playing on ATS 24 hours a day. If you are out and about and should see something out of the norm perhaps notify someone to check it out. Could be nothing or could be something. Law agencies do not have enough folks to catch everything, if they did, we would have no crime on this planet. If you want to protect your home and country from crime/terrorists in general, then be alert and get involved.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 07:07 PM
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I'm sorry the idea that a number of muslims could be doing any serious terror training in N Wales is laughable.
If you're English or just from the next town you stand out a mile!.

2 of the 7/7 bombers went on a rafting course in that area that's all.

I think this copper's just after some of the anti-terror budget plus he probably wants his ARV / Armed officers back from Manchester / Birmingham or wherever they've been deployed

[edit on 14/8/05 by CTID56092]



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 03:33 AM
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Originally posted by CTID56092

2 of the 7/7 bombers went on a rafting course in that area that's all.

I think this copper's just after some of the anti-terror budget

You really think so? What if it turns out to be true? These are not the kind of camps where they learn to use mortars and launch anti-tank missiles. These are more like "indoctrination" camps. What can be done about it?



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 05:22 AM
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Aswat, the alleged mastermind behind the London bombings (who may have been tied to MI6), tried to do the same thing in the U.S. State of Oregon, but it was a miserable failure. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they're trying to this in the UK or other Western European nations.



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 05:37 AM
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It seems that we, as a society (Canada, US, South America), and our European sisters and brothers, may have to throw off the blinders and realize that the terrorists may be a very real, live and ongoing threat. We may have to all work hard to throw off the thought process that "it can't happen here". We are in for a long fight if we are going to stop the terrorists from making life miserable all over, much like it has been in the Middle East with all the inter-religious bombing and fighting going on there, and the way it has been in the past in London with the Irish-British terrorist infighting.

I don't know any answers, not really, and I'm not advocating any right wing vs left wing answers... But, however it may come, we are going to need workable answers very soon, or life and liberty as we have come to know it may soon be over.



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 05:41 AM
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The only threat to our liberties comes from corrupt government. Not terrorists, England and Spain have battled terrorism for 30 years, yet they didnt have to give up any civil liberties.

Why is there now a big rush to curtail freedom of speech and other things?

The idea that there are terrorist camps in Wales is part of this deception.



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 06:26 AM
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Originally posted by Uncle Joe
The only threat to our liberties comes from corrupt government. Not terrorists, England and Spain have battled terrorism for 30 years, yet they didnt have to give up any civil liberties....


Ummm ... That maay nooot be entirely correct Uncle Joe. Severe restrictions placed on personal ownership of firearms, paid licensure for ownership of televisions with government paid hunters and severe penalties for the unlicensed folks (used to live there and know it for a fact). More cameras being placed in places that may or may not need higher levels of surveillance... Of course that is happening here in the States as well, so it's not really an example of "See! I told you so"


And what about needing passports to go to and from other countries in Europe? These kinds of things have been in place for so long that they are not seen as control emplacements.

What most folks don't understand, I think, is that we are, as a planet and humanity, going through the growing pains of becoming a planet-wide culture. The notions of national sovereignty, and national identity are painfully starting to go away. It may take a generation, or two or even three or four, but I figure that if we were able to come back and talk to our grandchildren, and great-great grandchildren in a couple of three or four decades, we will find a totally changed society on a national and international level. We will find less racial differentiation, less cultural differentiation, and even perhaps less religious differentiation.

I, for one, do not like the idea of losing my national sovereignty, but then again, I am from the old generation where flag waving and national pride was an important part of the culture. I'm from the generation just after the one that put itself together and fought WWII. And, the ensuing generations seem to become less so as we move further into the new century and millenium. What is interesting, however, is how most people don't want to be bothered with the ongoing happenings until they start to become personally affected.

It will be interesting to see what happens over the next 50 to 70 years, and I'm kind of sorry I won't be here to observe and participate.



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 07:11 AM
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The licence fee is nothing to do with terror, it is a funding system for an impatrial news source and top rate media network.

As for the use of passports that was a product of world war one, to keep Germans out.

Guns were banned after a masscre at a primary school.

Wow, having written that out i can see your point, terrorism has erdoded our liberties, just in different ways. Still support the gun ban though.



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 07:15 AM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Im not sure, but it's sad to see a european country turned into a terrorist training haven. why in the hell would the britains allow so many muslim immigrants? Why would they allow them to set up trining camps in their national parks? Do they have no national pride anymore? Maybe britain's apathetic attitude is finally coming back to bite them in the ass.



Apathetic?!?!?

Britain has gone and done what the US is trying to do.. build a global empire. Making it not INACTION but action that has brough this on them. Britain owned persia and palestine beferoe the world wars... the issues with islam and the west flared up over british rule in the region long before the US wanted to play too.

British problems with Islam start in Egypt, see the Egyptian resistance against British rule.

HINT - Start reading up on Egypts history especially where the UK features in it... Suez anyone?

[edit on 15/8/2005 by Corinthas]



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Uncle Joe
The licence fee is nothing to do with terror, it is a funding system for an impatrial news source and top rate media network.

As for the use of passports that was a product of world war one, to keep Germans out.

Guns were banned after a masscre at a primary school.

Wow, having written that out i can see your point, terrorism has erdoded our liberties, just in different ways. Still support the gun ban though.


Guns are not banned in UK!

Hand guns under 12" barrels are restricted (black powder excepted) but recently some have been allowed for humane despatch of wounded deer.

re: TV licence fee & passports - read some twaddle on here but that takes the biscuit! Presumably driving on the left is also a sign or moral weakness



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 02:32 PM
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...
re: TV licence fee & passports - read some twaddle on here but that takes the biscuit! Presumably driving on the left is also a sign or moral weakness


Since you no longer carry swords and involve yourselves in swordplay, you may be on to something!!!!!



Sorry you took offense. None was certainly intended. And the use of licensing of television was simply an example of government intervention. Not a condemnation of your fine land. Happens to be, in fact, I love England, and would live there again, in a heart beat except for a few personal issues that have absolutely nothing to do with Anglo-American differences.

But on that note. It was always interesting that folks would be on watch for the television police and hurriedly spread the word when they showed up so that folks would turn off and unplug their televisions (As rumor has it that they could track your telly by the mere fact that it was plugged in). I suspect that if they couldn't then, they can now. Unless the television license is no longer needed? In which case, I stand corrected and apologize. There used to be a radio license also, many years ago.

Passports ... In the continental United States, one can go from state to state by the process of driving across a state liine ... At least for now. The fact that you can not do it on the continent is simply an example of government control. That was in direct contrevention to Uncle Joe's statement that there is nothing controlled, or at least, very little in teh countries that he talked about.

He disagrees, has found other reasons as he wrote, and still supports the gun ban... That's fine for him. Not for me. We aren't going to argue about it... AT least I hope not.

Further, insofar as firearms, I won't argue with it, it's your country to do so with as you wish. Now... Can we be friends or am I forever relegated to twaddle land?



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by sigung86
Passports ... In the continental United States, one can go from state to state by the process of driving across a state liine ... At least for now. The fact that you can not do it on the continent is simply an example of government control.


Apologies if i'm being thick here, but I don't really understand what you're getting at with the passport thing. Isn't it normal to show a passport when you travel to a different country?



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by Chris McGee

Originally posted by sigung86
Passports ... In the continental United States, one can go from state to state by the process of driving across a state liine ... At least for now. The fact that you can not do it on the continent is simply an example of government control.


Apologies if i'm being thick here, but I don't really understand what you're getting at with the passport thing. Isn't it normal to show a passport when you travel to a different country?


That's what I was thinking, travelling from state to state is passport free, because it IS THE SAME COUNTRY. Oh, and by the way, a lot of countries within the EU are now allowing passport free travel which to me is ridiculous with the current terrorist climate, we need to keep track of people more than ever. I don't think this passport tracking is infringing on peoples rights, I personally don't care if the government knows where I'm going on holiday, perhaps if something bad were to happen while I were in a foreign country, then the government would know where to look for me (I'm that important:lol

Oh, and the T.V. licensing is to fund the B.B.C. and to allow for commercial free viewing which I love and am willing to pay. I really hate watching sitcoms in America when you have the intro scene to the show, THEN COMMERCIALS, and then the show! and when it ends, you guys get commercials, and then the credits! like you gotta wait for the credits! It is really annoying to me.. I love commercial free viewing, especially when they have movies on, commercial free (unless theres a news break) I can set DVD recorder to record the whole film interrupted...
On the topic of the terror camps in Wales, I'm glad these guys are choosing Brecon Beacons, cos thats where the SAS train, and I would love to see these guys even dare try to tackle the SAS!!!

[edit on 15-8-2005 by DARKJEDIG]



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by sigung86


Since you no longer carry swords and involve yourselves in swordplay, you may be on to something!!!!!



Sorry you took offense. None was certainly intended. And the use of licensing of television was simply an example of government intervention. Not a condemnation of your fine land. Happens to be, in fact, I love England, and would live there again, in a heart beat except for a few personal issues that have absolutely nothing to do with Anglo-American differences.

But on that note. It was always interesting that folks would be on watch for the television police and hurriedly spread the word when they showed up so that folks would turn off and unplug their televisions (As rumor has it that they could track your telly by the mere fact that it was plugged in). I suspect that if they couldn't then, they can now. Unless the television license is no longer needed? In which case, I stand corrected and apologize. There used to be a radio license also, many years ago.



Of course mate no worries - you're correct on the sword thing but I suspect we'll never change (unless the EU makes us!). We bizarrely cling to miles despite the fact that pounds and ounces are now illegal!

On the TV licence it's a question of fundamental differences re public service broadcasting or commercial. In UK it was always seen as public service and the BBC was given a monopoly as the govt wanted to control broadcasting. The US adopted a different model and AFAIK TV was commercial from the start.

The debate about the future of the Beeb does include questioning the future of the licence fee. Some say this is revenge for Iraq, some blame sky/Murdoch's relentless PR, others say it's a realistic view of the digital age of TV.

Personally I think £130 a year for 4 tv channels, about 8 radio channels and the best, most comprensive news website in the world (free to all you'll note - no subscription required) is amazing value - especially compared to the Sky rip-off. Appreciate it's a concern for thoise who say 'I never watch BBC' (liars! which channel do you watch when the bombs go off?) but it's a fundamental part of the fabric of British life / society - without the Beeb we may as well be the 51st state.

As pointed out Europe is made up of many sovereign states so passports are required to cross borders (once had to explain the whole concept to a USAF wife at immigration as she just didn't know she needed one to visit France so I know it's 'unusual' for Americans) but again it's part of living in the cultural powerhouse of the world - Europe. There was a no passport zone within mainland Europe but I believe that has been ended due to the terrorist threat.

BTW they can now check records on a central database and have hand-held TV detectors so they'll always get you eventually.

The point on guns was not aimed at you - just correcting an incorrect post by Uncle Joe.

If you're ever over here the first pint's on me!

Differences - all part of life's rich tapestry!



posted on Sep, 2 2006 @ 11:33 PM
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Seems like there is a network of terror training camps across Britain...


Young Muslims held in terror camp crackdown

September 3, 2006



Police are investigating a network of terror training camps across Britain which they fear are nurturing a new wave of home-grown Islamic extremists. The investigation is linked to raids late on Friday in which anti-terrorism officers arrested 14 people.

[---]

The source said they were not just talking about military-style camps, but bases where religious extremists 'bonded' and indoctrination took place preparing young extremists to become suicide bombers.

[---]

The Observer understands camps have operated in some of Britain's most isolated areas including Scotland, Wales and the Lake District. There has long been speculation that Abu Hamza operated a training camp in the Brecon Beacons in Wales and an unknown location in Scotland. At least two of the 7/7 bombers were known to have gone on white water trips in North Wales before their lethal attacks in London, and the use of activity-based training camps are suspected of playing a pivotal role in preparing young extremists.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

In Wales. Other places too...



posted on Sep, 3 2006 @ 02:35 AM
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As someone who lives in north wales i wouldn't be at all suprised if there were camps round here, the coppers are only interested in nicking people for speeding and show very little interest in any other types of crime



posted on Sep, 3 2006 @ 08:01 AM
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I must admit I read some of these posts and cannot believe what I read, never in all human history have so may been frightened by so few. This state induced paranoia has to stop and minds have to focus on whats really happening. Its sounds like people want to live in a police state and are willing to give up their freedoms for alleged terrorist activities. May I remind you that we had 30 years of IRA terrorism in the UK and not once was such draconian legislation ever introduced and if it had of been it would not have stopped the IRA. You cannot legislate against people who's activities have a total disregard for law or boundaries.

The question that should be asked is the terrorist threat real or is it a vehicle that is being used by goverments to pursue their global interests. The American/British invasion of middle eastern countries for reasons what only can be described as lies and smoke screens does nothing to help our safety or security. If there is a clash of ideals then one has to come to a mutual understaning otherwise there's anarchy, there is extremist views in all religions but thats not the accepted norm is it.

One has to remember that when we allow the introduction of anti freedom laws they affect all of us and not the terrorists. Any person who believes it will remove the terrorist threat are sadly delluded and you have to ask what is the real reason for such legislation.

If you look at the current situation with Iran the US/Israel are making excuses to take them out because that want nuclear power and hence nuclear weapons. Well it takes years to develop both so there's plenty of time to talk to them. If the Iranians really wanted nukes I'm sure the Russians or Chinenese would happily sell them some but Iran hassent has it. But look at America the only country that has used nukes, has thousands of them, has massive stores of chemical/biological weapons and has a history of invading countries that has not attacked it. Israel has hundreds of nukes and has waged war on its neighbours for years. You have to ask who is the real aggressor and who is the real threat to world peace. The majority of countries on this planet will never have the capability to invade the US/UK/Israel nor would they wish to so one has to ask where is the real threat.



posted on Sep, 3 2006 @ 08:23 AM
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The very fact that these Islamic terrorists are going for as many kills as possible seperates them from the IRA bombing campaigns. The IRA were, or course, a group to be taken very seriously and inflicted many casualties in many bombing campaigns. Islamic terrorists on the other hand are going for mass exterminations, not just a bomb left in a pub, they are looking at causing severe damage similar to 9/11.

The fact a police chief is suggesting his concerns over a young suicide bomber to steal a chlorine truck and detonate it in the middle of Leeds city centre should give you an idea at the differences between Islamic terrorism and the IRA.

I'm more than certain Islamic groups pose a severe risk to us than any other group in our recent history.




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