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Why does people want to go to Heaven?

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posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by GeniusSage
I wouldn't like to go to Heaven.

My family are all non-christian (do not follow the Christian God) and will therefore go to Hell (according to Christian belief). I could not go to Heaven and live the paradise knowing my family are suffering in Hell.

What you just said already shows you're closer to God than all the 'christians' who think they're getting 'raptured' by God because they're so righteous, with little regard for who they leave behind

You have the love of the (true) Living God in your heart, and they don't. The 'christian' God is their God, but the Living God is the God of the world and He loves everyone, even those who don't know Him yet.

Better right now to not know Him than to be thinking you do and going around giving Him bad publicity.




posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by keybored
In the end, we are all believers.

Amen.



Originally posted by riley
Perhaps 'the spirit' is our default state and, fear of death aside, we subconciously want to get back to it [energy can't die it just changes].



Both of these are sound statements, IMO.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by ulshadow
Every different religion have have different reason for going to heaven.

Close, but not quite close enough. Many religions do not believe in heaven.


i think it is just religious crap,


Congratulations, you have just managed to insult eveyone who has any religous belief.


if you die your dead, your body just decay and nothing happens, you don't go to hell nor heaven.


You are entitled to your own opinion. Please don't bash other people's beliefs just because they are different from your own.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by crustas
Yes, i wonder why people what to go to heaven?
Do you know what wait us all in there?

As far has i learned in church, when people die and they have enough "credits" they go to heaven otherwise Hell waits them.

In the sky we will the right to have a cloud were we will seat near enough to look at God for all eternity and rejoice with that. That's a nice view in short term, but if you imagine being seated for 10 000 000 years, should be enough of staring at God, and by the way the cloud is wet, and therefore not very confortable...and as the only instrument is the harp, we could play it until we burn out of "fingers".

Is that a little disapointing for the END with good "credits"? Is church covering the truth, or is that they don't know about OUR END (is it the End?)at all?

If we go to Hell because of not enough "credits", we after the same amount of time 10 000 000 years we will be adapted to the fire and smoke and all the stuff that happens there, because is natural in the Humans to adapt. Well after adaptation, what will the Devil do ? Raise de Temperature?

And how does God records all the actions of 6 billion of humans 24x7 to update the "credit" system?


I would like some feedback of you all in this.



Thanks in advance
crustas


Jesus paid for these so called "Credits"...a liitle faith will get you a long way. When no one else is there for you he will always be there for you, and make sure you make the right choices.

It's a gift that he bought us with the blood from his son.

as far as what heaven looks like it say's it has street's of gold, and I imagine it's beyond our conprehension.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by Urn

Originally posted by Jamuhn
So what's stopping you from murdering someone? Nothing?


my moral standing, is stopping me from killing somone...i don't mean to sound harsh, but WTF kind of a stupid question is that???

the fact that i don't believe in your god, your heaven, or your hell means


Moral standing......that's my point. Why do you have any moral standing?

People who are religious generally have certain morals because they fear God. So, did you ever think why you have a moral standing or do you already know? If it's because of the law, get ready....US law is generally based upon principles established by religious institutions.

By the way, I don't believe in the Christian version of heaven and hell. You know what they say, assumptions make an ass out of you and umptions.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by glan

Jesus paid for these so called "Credits"...a liitle faith will get you a long way. When no one else is there for you he will always be there for you, and make sure you make the right choices.

It's a gift that he bought us with the blood from his son.

as far as what heaven looks like it say's it has street's of gold, and I imagine it's beyond our conprehension.


If Jesus paid all the "credits", that means that all of us go to Heaven and not to Hell ,even if our life was full of bad actions toward the others?


Thanks
Peace
Crustas



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by ViolatoR



Originally posted by ViolatoR
All religious texts and practices are tools for everyday people to try and experience what a religious experience must be like.

The texts were written by humans and therefore what's being written is the perception of reality of an individual or a group of individuals, at a particular time.
If, for example, the bible was written today, it would be different, don't you agree? Perception changes when reality changes or is it otherwise?

So religious texts are just old "roadmaps" and most of its "roads" today, are dead-ends.


Originally posted by ViolatoR
Obviously following this same reasoning, Heaven and Hell are inconciveable. We can guess that being without a body, things are much different. Like a wet cloud or firey pit are not physical objects like we would imagine here on Earth.

I agree with you, but nevertheless that's the way religions deliver the message to the people, is it fair?


Originally posted by ViolatoR
The only true way to know God is to know God as Unknowable. Then you can put your mind at ease. You now know for a fact you will never, in this life or any other, truely know God. Now all thats left is to enjoy life.

Ok, here we go.
Lets imagine that you, yes you, are God. You are all Existance, all Reality, EveryThing. We will call you by many names such as God but it doesnt change what you really are. You are a supreme intelligence and contain all Things. Outside of you is no-Thing, as you are every Thing. There is not blackness outside of you, as blackness is a Thing. There is not even nothingness because that would still be a thing. Apart from you, God, is an inconcievable void which you cannot know. You can also not know yourself. For without a background you cannot see yourself against it. Without the blackness you cant see what else there is. It would be like an eye trying to see its self, or a mouth eating its self.

Now because you have no way of seeing youself you need to move your intelligence away from its self inorder to look back on yourself and proclaim - There is God. So imagine that you are cut into many smaller peices. Your hands and eyes and mouth all split up and scattered. You are no longer the mass of Everything. Even much of your intelligence has been split up.

Eventually your hands and eyes and intelligence start to spring up in various places. Plants feel the warmth of the Sun and animals Taste and smell the plants. Dolphins and Ravens and Monkeys and other animals contain plenty of Intelligence. Then along comes Man. Made from You God, and endowed with your senses, made in your image. Man can look around at all the wonders of life and study it deeply.

Mankind is so good at observing that they break off into groups to concentrate more on Biology, Geology, Astronomy, Physics and so on. He has taken this whole existance and chopped it into easily identifiable peices. But as he dug deeper he started to see that Biology is heavily depenedant on Geology, and Geology on Atronomy, and so on. That infact all these seemingly separate fields are interconnected. In fact every Thing everywhere seems to have come from one original Source.

Finally You (acting as Mankind) can look back at yourself and say There is God.


As you are saying if God is everything the only way to know God as far as i see it is to be a God in a higher level than the one that our God stands.
Now imagine how many levels of Gods could be out there
))
Thanks

Peace
Crustas



to know God we have to be The God of the Gods, at least at a certain level.
We the X level group within us several other X-1 levels of godness

[edit on 14-8-2005 by crustas]


Urn

posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by Jamuhn
Moral standing......that's my point. Why do you have any moral standing?

People who are religious generally have certain morals because they fear God. So, did you ever think why you have a moral standing or do you already know? If it's because of the law, get ready....US law is generally based upon principles established by religious institutions.

By the way, I don't believe in the Christian version of heaven and hell. You know what they say, assumptions make an ass out of you and umptions.


sorry for being so harsh in my last post, its just that it really gets on my nerves when people imply that the have a higher moral standing because of their religion (not saying thats what you meant, just that thats what it sounded like)

i think my morals stem from the fact that i dont like to see anyone or anything suffer, i can put myself in their shoes and see thing from their point of view....thats why i couldn't murder somone, i cant even kill an insect, l feel guilty because the insect has as much right to exist as i do, who am i to take that away from it?

my morals have nothing to do with the law, or religion.

[edit on 14-8-2005 by Urn]



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by Urn

Originally posted by Jamuhn
Moral standing......that's my point. Why do you have any moral standing?

People who are religious generally have certain morals because they fear God. So, did you ever think why you have a moral standing or do you already know? If it's because of the law, get ready....US law is generally based upon principles established by religious institutions.

By the way, I don't believe in the Christian version of heaven and hell. You know what they say, assumptions make an ass out of you and umptions.


sorry for being so harsh in my last post, its just that it really gets on my nerves when people imply that the have a higher moral standing because of their religion (not saying thats what you meant, just that thats what it sounded like)

i think my morals stem from the fact that i dont like to see anyone or anything suffer, i can put myself in their shoes and see thing from their point of view....thats why i couldn't murder somone, i cant even kill an insect, l feel guilty because the insect has as much right to exist as i do, who am i to take that away from it?

my morals have nothing to do with the law, or religion.

[edit on 14-8-2005 by Urn]



Yes moral is very subjective: "relating to principles of right and wrong" and that principles are attached on the culture and religion we live in.

So the moral that could be positive on one side could be negative on the other side. It depends on the side you are.

So, moral is a human conception, a subjective one, concerned with principles of right and wrong or conforming to standards of behavior and character based on in principles that will change from culture/religion to culture/religion.

Thank
Peace
Crustas



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by Jamuhn
So you don't kill someone because YOU don't want to go to jail?

Whats wrong with not wanting to go to jail and suffer there?

Two additional questions,
1. Do you care or think about the person you are killing?

why do i want to kill someone in the first place?

2. What do you think such laws against murder are based on?

If you don't go to jail or death sentence to kill someone, there will be a lot more chaos today.


Originally posted by keybored

If you think Heaven is "crap" or that you don't want to be there, don't worry about it, you won't. Heaven isn't about you, its about God. Being there isn't about you, its about accepting that Christ died for you.
I think you will all find your answer though, the time comes when everyone has their dues to pay. In the end, we are all believers.

I don't want to go to heaven and i am going to hell. happy now, now stop trying to convert me into what ever your religion is. in every religion they will always say, all non believers will die in the end and their religion is the only path to survival bah bah bah. and stuff like that. i don't belivied in god and i don't belivied in your god and you can't make me.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 05:38 PM
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crustas, you cant get into heaven because of credits, but people who do not accept Jesus cannot get the grace ride into heaven.

Reference: Romans 3:23-25

NIV 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—

And another version in a bit simplier english

NLT 23For all have sinned; all fall short of God's glorious standard. 24Yet now God in his gracious kindness declares us not guilty. He has done this through Christ Jesus, who has freed us by taking away our sins. 25For God sent Jesus to take the punishment for our sins and to satisfy God's anger against us. We are made right with God when we believe that Jesus shed his blood, sacrificing his life for us. God was being entirely fair and just when he did not punish those who sinned in former times.

As for why people would want to go to heaven,this is what christians are told is there:

NIV Revelations 7:16-17
16Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst.
The sun will not beat upon them, nor any scorching heat.
17For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; he will lead them to springs of living water. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."


(FYI: Jesus is often refered to as the Lamb because he was the scarifice for sin)...and how does never being hungry or thristy again sound to you?

NIV Revelations 22:5
5There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.


There are more things, if someone else doesnt post them i will later.

---Pineapple



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by pineappleupsidedown
crustas, you cant get into heaven because of credits, but people who do not accept Jesus cannot get the grace ride into heaven.

Reference: Romans 3:23-25

NIV 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—

And another version in a bit simplier english

NLT 23For all have sinned; all fall short of God's glorious standard. 24Yet now God in his gracious kindness declares us not guilty. He has done this through Christ Jesus, who has freed us by taking away our sins. 25For God sent Jesus to take the punishment for our sins and to satisfy God's anger against us. We are made right with God when we believe that Jesus shed his blood, sacrificing his life for us. God was being entirely fair and just when he did not punish those who sinned in former times.

As for why people would want to go to heaven,this is what christians are told is there:

NIV Revelations 7:16-17
16Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst.
The sun will not beat upon them, nor any scorching heat.
17For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; he will lead them to springs of living water. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."


(FYI: Jesus is often refered to as the Lamb because he was the scarifice for sin)...and how does never being hungry or thristy again sound to you?

NIV Revelations 22:5
5There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.


There are more things, if someone else doesnt post them i will later.

---Pineapple


Matthew 21:32
Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Until the end come, i can in my last nanosec of life ,change my mind and repent and become a beliver( like getting a jackpot of credits), even if i did not believe in the entire life..Is it fair comparing to all the believers that believe ever since?

Peace
Crustas



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 06:32 PM
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IMO, we are already in heaven (and hell)...it just depends on your perspective. We can make our existence both heaven or hell depending on how we choose to live.

I think ViolatoR has it perfectly right...



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 07:01 PM
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"And therefore when there is nothing to be seen, there is nothing to accuse, either of their good, or evill fortune, but some Power, or Agent Invisible: In which sense perhaps it was, that some of the old Poets said, that the Gods were at first created by humane feare...

...But the acknowledging of one God Eternall, Infinate and Omnipotent, may more easily be derived, from the desire men have to now the causes of naturall bodies...

... In the pursuit of causes; shall at last come to this, that there must be one First Mover, that is, a First, and an Eternall cause of all things; which is that which men mean by the name of God: And all this without thought of their fortune; the solitude whereof, both enclines to fear and hinders them from the search of the causes of other things; and thereby gives occasion of feigning of as many Gods, as there be men that feigne them."

Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan

I thought i might also add on the murder morals quote provided by someone.

It's been said that the right of nature is for man to use all powers within himself, for the preservation of his own life, and that it is forbidden to do that is destructive of his own life.

And... in addition, to prevent the death of others if it does not hinder the preservation of his own life.

Maybe that's why we wouldn't murder? Because it is a Natural Law?

Just another idea.



[edit on 14-8-2005 by Snoopdopey]

[edit on 14-8-2005 by Snoopdopey]



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 07:03 PM
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Why do people want to go to heaven / believe?

Because they want assurance that no matter how bad things get, it will get better, and you will have an eternal life of pure bliss whatever etc....


I do not follow any religion, but I do believe there must be some higher power. What is is and what it wants is debatable.

All I know is that Jesus / God / whatever has not came down and told me what to do, how to live my life etc.

This doesnt mean I am going to go around killing people, etc. I am still going to live the life of a "good" person.

I dont care what is written in any religous text because for one, I could write one too. This doesnt mean any of it is true.

Look at the accounts of the ark etc. There have been other findings of great flood stories much the same. Think of them as early urban legends.

And why did Jesus not write ANYTHING ?

Live a good life and see what happens.




posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by Urn
i think my morals stem from the fact that i dont like to see anyone or anything suffer, i can put myself in their shoes and see thing from their point of view....thats why i couldn't murder somone, i cant even kill an insect, l feel guilty because the insect has as much right to exist as i do, who am i to take that away from it?

my morals have nothing to do with the law, or religion.


Don't worry about that first part.

The thing is, though, that your description of your morality has similarities with Christianity. Specifically, Jesus' Golden Rule, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." I have a sneeking suspicion that Jesus wasn't the first to say it though.

I guess my point is, that we all share (generally) similar sentiments towards morality whether we are religious, non-religious, or agnostic. The only difference being how we arrive at them or justify them.

I was mainly addressing the fact that people think religion warps people's minds when they attempt to live in a way that may guide them towards their heaven.

This isn't addressed towards you Urn, but just in general...
If they believe in a Christian heaven, let them! If they are living a morally upright life to find heaven, then why mock them?



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by ulshadow
Whats wrong with not wanting to go to jail and suffer there?

If you don't go to jail or death sentence to kill someone, there will be a lot more chaos today.


So, you live morally to protect yourself? Do your actions towards someone else come into place here, or is it all about what's best for you?



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by crustas
Until the end come, i can in my last nanosec of life ,change my mind and repent and become a beliver( like getting a jackpot of credits), even if i did not believe in the entire life..Is it fair comparing to all the believers that believe ever since?

Peace
Crustas


Yes, you could do that, but if you werent sincere it actually mean anything. "i put my faith in Jesus" are not magic words to get into heaven, you have to believe it. Also, what if you died instantly or in your sleep? You would never know the end was coming.

"Is it fair comparing to all the believers that believe ever since?"
Can you rephrase this question, i dont understand it.

---Pineapple



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 01:44 AM
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our experiences are broken into opposites, heaven being completely made up entirely of one of those opposites. so essentially, to be there would to not have reference to another opposite, thus no experience can be created or felt. so in turn, it might as well be nothingness. that or a constant vibration that we can't even comprehend, where no reference for an opposite is even plausible.... make sense?


Urn

posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by Jamuhn If they believe in a Christian heaven, let them! If they are living a morally upright life to find heaven, then why mock them?


i would NEVER mock their, or your, believes Jamuhn,(and if i came across that way then i sincerely apologize...)
i mean..after all...how can anybody who wants to treat their common man as they themselves would like to be treated, possibly put that person down for their own personal believes??




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