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Originally posted by GeniusSage
I wouldn't like to go to Heaven.
My family are all non-christian (do not follow the Christian God) and will therefore go to Hell (according to Christian belief). I could not go to Heaven and live the paradise knowing my family are suffering in Hell.
Originally posted by keybored
In the end, we are all believers.
Originally posted by riley
Perhaps 'the spirit' is our default state and, fear of death aside, we subconciously want to get back to it [energy can't die it just changes].
Originally posted by ulshadow
Every different religion have have different reason for going to heaven.
i think it is just religious crap,
if you die your dead, your body just decay and nothing happens, you don't go to hell nor heaven.
Originally posted by crustas
Yes, i wonder why people what to go to heaven?
Do you know what wait us all in there?
As far has i learned in church, when people die and they have enough "credits" they go to heaven otherwise Hell waits them.
In the sky we will the right to have a cloud were we will seat near enough to look at God for all eternity and rejoice with that. That's a nice view in short term, but if you imagine being seated for 10 000 000 years, should be enough of staring at God, and by the way the cloud is wet, and therefore not very confortable...and as the only instrument is the harp, we could play it until we burn out of "fingers".
Is that a little disapointing for the END with good "credits"? Is church covering the truth, or is that they don't know about OUR END (is it the End?)at all?
If we go to Hell because of not enough "credits", we after the same amount of time 10 000 000 years we will be adapted to the fire and smoke and all the stuff that happens there, because is natural in the Humans to adapt. Well after adaptation, what will the Devil do ? Raise de Temperature?
And how does God records all the actions of 6 billion of humans 24x7 to update the "credit" system?
I would like some feedback of you all in this.
Thanks in advance
crustas
Originally posted by Urn
Originally posted by Jamuhn
So what's stopping you from murdering someone? Nothing?
my moral standing, is stopping me from killing somone...i don't mean to sound harsh, but WTF kind of a stupid question is that???
the fact that i don't believe in your god, your heaven, or your hell means
Originally posted by glan
Jesus paid for these so called "Credits"...a liitle faith will get you a long way. When no one else is there for you he will always be there for you, and make sure you make the right choices.
It's a gift that he bought us with the blood from his son.
as far as what heaven looks like it say's it has street's of gold, and I imagine it's beyond our conprehension.
Originally posted by ViolatoR
Originally posted by ViolatoR
All religious texts and practices are tools for everyday people to try and experience what a religious experience must be like.
Originally posted by ViolatoR
Obviously following this same reasoning, Heaven and Hell are inconciveable. We can guess that being without a body, things are much different. Like a wet cloud or firey pit are not physical objects like we would imagine here on Earth.
Originally posted by ViolatoR
The only true way to know God is to know God as Unknowable. Then you can put your mind at ease. You now know for a fact you will never, in this life or any other, truely know God. Now all thats left is to enjoy life.
Ok, here we go.
Lets imagine that you, yes you, are God. You are all Existance, all Reality, EveryThing. We will call you by many names such as God but it doesnt change what you really are. You are a supreme intelligence and contain all Things. Outside of you is no-Thing, as you are every Thing. There is not blackness outside of you, as blackness is a Thing. There is not even nothingness because that would still be a thing. Apart from you, God, is an inconcievable void which you cannot know. You can also not know yourself. For without a background you cannot see yourself against it. Without the blackness you cant see what else there is. It would be like an eye trying to see its self, or a mouth eating its self.
Now because you have no way of seeing youself you need to move your intelligence away from its self inorder to look back on yourself and proclaim - There is God. So imagine that you are cut into many smaller peices. Your hands and eyes and mouth all split up and scattered. You are no longer the mass of Everything. Even much of your intelligence has been split up.
Eventually your hands and eyes and intelligence start to spring up in various places. Plants feel the warmth of the Sun and animals Taste and smell the plants. Dolphins and Ravens and Monkeys and other animals contain plenty of Intelligence. Then along comes Man. Made from You God, and endowed with your senses, made in your image. Man can look around at all the wonders of life and study it deeply.
Mankind is so good at observing that they break off into groups to concentrate more on Biology, Geology, Astronomy, Physics and so on. He has taken this whole existance and chopped it into easily identifiable peices. But as he dug deeper he started to see that Biology is heavily depenedant on Geology, and Geology on Atronomy, and so on. That infact all these seemingly separate fields are interconnected. In fact every Thing everywhere seems to have come from one original Source.
Finally You (acting as Mankind) can look back at yourself and say There is God.
Originally posted by Jamuhn
Moral standing......that's my point. Why do you have any moral standing?
People who are religious generally have certain morals because they fear God. So, did you ever think why you have a moral standing or do you already know? If it's because of the law, get ready....US law is generally based upon principles established by religious institutions.
By the way, I don't believe in the Christian version of heaven and hell. You know what they say, assumptions make an ass out of you and umptions.
Originally posted by Urn
Originally posted by Jamuhn
Moral standing......that's my point. Why do you have any moral standing?
People who are religious generally have certain morals because they fear God. So, did you ever think why you have a moral standing or do you already know? If it's because of the law, get ready....US law is generally based upon principles established by religious institutions.
By the way, I don't believe in the Christian version of heaven and hell. You know what they say, assumptions make an ass out of you and umptions.
sorry for being so harsh in my last post, its just that it really gets on my nerves when people imply that the have a higher moral standing because of their religion (not saying thats what you meant, just that thats what it sounded like)
i think my morals stem from the fact that i dont like to see anyone or anything suffer, i can put myself in their shoes and see thing from their point of view....thats why i couldn't murder somone, i cant even kill an insect, l feel guilty because the insect has as much right to exist as i do, who am i to take that away from it?
my morals have nothing to do with the law, or religion.
[edit on 14-8-2005 by Urn]
Originally posted by pineappleupsidedown
crustas, you cant get into heaven because of credits, but people who do not accept Jesus cannot get the grace ride into heaven.
Reference: Romans 3:23-25
NIV 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—
And another version in a bit simplier english
NLT 23For all have sinned; all fall short of God's glorious standard. 24Yet now God in his gracious kindness declares us not guilty. He has done this through Christ Jesus, who has freed us by taking away our sins. 25For God sent Jesus to take the punishment for our sins and to satisfy God's anger against us. We are made right with God when we believe that Jesus shed his blood, sacrificing his life for us. God was being entirely fair and just when he did not punish those who sinned in former times.
As for why people would want to go to heaven,this is what christians are told is there:
NIV Revelations 7:16-17
16Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst.
The sun will not beat upon them, nor any scorching heat.
17For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; he will lead them to springs of living water. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."
(FYI: Jesus is often refered to as the Lamb because he was the scarifice for sin)...and how does never being hungry or thristy again sound to you?
NIV Revelations 22:5
5There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.
There are more things, if someone else doesnt post them i will later.
---Pineapple
Originally posted by Urn
i think my morals stem from the fact that i dont like to see anyone or anything suffer, i can put myself in their shoes and see thing from their point of view....thats why i couldn't murder somone, i cant even kill an insect, l feel guilty because the insect has as much right to exist as i do, who am i to take that away from it?
my morals have nothing to do with the law, or religion.
Originally posted by ulshadow
Whats wrong with not wanting to go to jail and suffer there?
If you don't go to jail or death sentence to kill someone, there will be a lot more chaos today.
Originally posted by crustas
Until the end come, i can in my last nanosec of life ,change my mind and repent and become a beliver( like getting a jackpot of credits), even if i did not believe in the entire life..Is it fair comparing to all the believers that believe ever since?
Peace
Crustas
Originally posted by Jamuhn If they believe in a Christian heaven, let them! If they are living a morally upright life to find heaven, then why mock them?