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Nazi Technology

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posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 10:42 PM
Nazi Technology

Disclaimer: I do not in any way shape or form concur with the ideology of hatred, genocide, or the massive amount of atrocities the Nazi party has inflicted upon the world. Instead this forum is about sharing information, and knowledge in understanding a truly horrific political party; and its ingenious technological advances. I know a few threads have been created before about UFO Nazi involvement, Secret Nazi technology, air planes, and its weapons; this is an attempt to combine all of the above in one huge discussion that I hope we all can learn more about. So please join me in the quest to seek more information on this fascinating subject. Together we can learn more.

I would like this thread to be about any, and everything that deals with Nazi Technology, weapons, rumors, and inventors. So please share with me, the information that you know about the above topics.
To start this off I will discuss a few of the Nazi weapons that were developed and used during World War II.


Designed by Heinrich Vollmer at Erma Werke, the fully automatic Maschinenpistole (machine pistol) 40 was an improvement on the MP 38, which had suffered serious problems with misfiring. Constructed with stamped sheet metal, the MP 40 was a very economical weapon to manufacture.

The MP 40 was adopted in 1940 and was usually allocated to German unit leaders. It was known as a reliable weapon in the field, and was often prized by Allied soldiers.

Approximately one million MP 40s were produced between 1940 and 1944. The MP 40 is often inaccurately referred to as a "Schmeisser" even though weapons designer Hugh Schmeisser had nothing to do with its design or manufacture.

Caliber: 9 mm
Length: 32.75 in.
Weight: 8.75 lbs
Magazine: 32 rounds
Rate of Fire: 500 rpm (cyclic), 150 rpm (effective)
Range: 330 feet
Muzzle Velocity: 1250 fps


The MG34 was used as the primary infantry machine gun during the 1930s, and remained as the primary tank and aircraft defensive weapon. It was intended that it would be replaced in infantry service by the related MG42, but there were never enough of the new design to go around, and MG34s soldiered on in all roles until the end of World War II. It was intended that it would replace the MG-13 and other older machine guns, but these ended up still being used in WWII as demand was never met.

Changes to the operating mechanism improved the rate of fire to between 800 and 900 RPM. .

The new gun was accepted for service almost immediately and was generally liked by the troops. It was used to great effect by German soldiers assisting the fascists in the Spanish Civil War. At the time it was introduced it had a number of advanced features and the GPMG concept that it aspired to was a influential one. However the MG34 was also expensive, both in terms of construction and the raw materials needed (49 kg of steel) and it was unable to be built in the sorts of numbers required for the ever expanding German army. It also proved to be rather temperamental, jamming easily when dirty.


The MG34 could use both magazine-fed and belt-fed 7.92 mm ammunition. Belts were supplied in 50-round single strips or 250-round boxes. The drums held either 50 rounds in the standard version, or 75 in the "double drum" version. Early guns had to be modified to use the drums by replacing a part on the gun, but this modification was later supplied from the factory.

In the light machine gun role it was used with a bipod and weighed only 12.1 kg. In the medium machine gun role it could be mounted on one of two tripods, a smaller one weighing 6.75 kg, the larger 23.6 kg. The larger tripod, the MG-34 Laffette, included a number of features such as a scope and special sighting equipment for indirect fire. The legs could be extended to allow it to be used in the anti-aircraft role (and many were), and when lowered it could be placed to allow the gun to be fired "remotely" while it swept an arc in front of the mounting with fire, or aimed through a periscope attached to the tripod.


* Caliber: 7.92 mm
* Load: continuous belt feed (50 or 200 round strips) or 75 round beltless saddle drum
* Action: selective fire, air cooled
* Rate of fire: 800 to 900 round/min
* Weight: 12.1 kg (26.7 lb)
* Weight with tripod: 19.2 kg (42.3 lb)



Unlike the Americans, the German Army did not employ light, medium or heavy machine guns in World War II, but instead standardized on one machine gun, the Maschinengewehr 42, which was the successor to the more complicated and difficult to manufacture MG 34. The weapon entered service in 1942 and over the next three years approximately 400,000 were manufactured by companies including Mauser Werke AG, Gustloff-Werke, Grossfuss in, Magnet and Steyr-Daimler-Puch.

The MG 42 was reliable, powerful, lightweight, easy to service, and fairly inexpensive to produce. It had few weaknesses, although its high rate of fire did cause significant vibration which could throw off a gunner's aim. The MG 42's barrel could be swapped out and replaced in 30 seconds or less.

The MG 42 was designed to operate in two modes. When used by an infantryman the MG 42 was equipped with a bipod and was considered to be in light machine gun mode. It could be configured for heavy machine gun mode by mounting it on a tripod and fitting it with long-range sights.

German units often organized themselves around the firepower that the MG 42 could provide, and almost all rifleman were tasked with carrying ammunition for it. With its extremely high rate of fire the MG 42 required a significant amount of ammunition to keep it in operation. The MG 42 was often operated by a three-man crew; a gunner, a loader and a spotter. The gunner was usually a junior NCO, as it was too valuable a weapon to be placed in the hands of anyone less experienced.

The United States Army's current M60 machine gun is based in part on the MG 42 design.

Caliber: 7.92
Muzzle Velocity: 2477 feet per second
Capacity:50-round belt
Weight: 25.3 lbs.
Length: 48 in.
Rate of Fire: 1200–1800 rounds per minute
Effective Range: 547 yards



The Mauser Karabiner 98k was the German army's standard rifle during World War II. Although officially designated as a carbine (karabiner), the 98k was only slightly shorter than the Gewehr 98 and Karabiner 98b, the World War I era rifles that it replaced. The "k" in 98k stood for kurz, the German word for "short."

The bolt-action 98k was based on a Mauser Standard Model and went into production in 1935. The 98k was considered an accurate and reliable weapon, and approximately 14 million of them were produced before the end of the war.

The 98k probably would have been replaced by the Sturmgewehr 44 had World War II lasted longer.

Caliber: 7.92 mm
Muzzle Velocity: 2,477 feet per second
Rate of Fire: 15 rounds per minute
Magazine: 5 rounds
Weight: 8.6 lbs.
Length: 43.7 in.
Effective Range: 875 yards



external image

Sturmgewehr 44
Nationality Germany
Type Assault rifle
Inventor Gustloff
Date of design 1943
Service duration July 1944 - May 1945
Cartridge 7.92 x 33 mm
Action Gas-actuated
Rate of fire 500-600
Muzzle velocity 685 m/s
Effective range 300 m
Weight (Unloaded) 5.22 kg
Length 940 mm
Barrel 419 mm
Magazine capacity 30
Viewing sights Blade front
Tangent U-notch rear
Variants ??
Number built 425,977

The MP43, MP44, and StG44 were names for a nearly identical weapon with only small production differences and dates. The last, the StG44, was called "Sturmgewehr" literally "Storm rifle", or more commonly translated as assault rifle. It combined the traits of submachine guns (SMG) and automatic rifles. The translation "assault rifle" became very popular to describe this class of weapon, but it was far from being the first of this type.

It chambered a shorter version of the standard 7.92 mm rifle round, which, in combination with the weapon's design allowed it to be used like a SMG in close quarters but with greater accuracy and range then a SMG for farther targets. However, it had much less range and power than regular rifles of the day; fortunately, at that time, much of the fighting was taking place at closer ranges such as in towns, cities, and wooded areas. It had much less range and power than battle rifles, the standard of the day, but most shooting took place at the relatively short ranges it was useful at, anyway.

It was a popular weapon—much of the army was armed with either submachine guns or bolt-action rifles—but only a limited number of soldiers were issued the semi-automatic rifles. There was also a distinct lack of a dedicated light machine gun (LMG). The MG34 and MG42 had versions that were meant to serve in this role but they were on the heavy side for a LMG. The Stg44 was not a light machine gun, but it did fill the need for a light automatic rifle that offered mobile suppresive fire, like the Bren, while at the same time offering much of the convenience of a SMG or light automatic rifle such as the US M1 Carbine.

A light automatic rifle, the FG42, was available for paratroopers as a semi-automatic rifle and light support weapon. However, it was produced in only a few thousand units because it was not economical to manufacture and due to internal politics of the Nazi government.

The Soviet Union, who also had lacked large number of deployed LMG's like the BAR, was quicker to adapt the concept. The AK-47 used a similar sized round and followed the design concept, but was internally (mechanically) different. It was with this weapon that the English term 'assault rifle' for intermediate automatic carbines rose to greater prominence, and has since has been retro-actively applied to earlier weapons in this category. While the name originated from certain English translations of Sturmgewehr, the weapon itself did not mark the invention of the weapon concept of an assault rifle.


German Panzer

The German Panzer force at the start of World War II was not especially impressive. Only 4% of the defense budget was spent on AFV - production. Guderian had planned for two main tanks, the Panzer III was in production but the second support tank with a 75 mm gun was not. Designated the Panzer IV design work had begun in 1935 and trials of prototypes were undertaken in 1937, but by the time of the invasion of Poland only a few hundred 'troop trial' models were available. The development work was then halted and limited production began by Krupp in Gruson, Essen and Bochum in October 1939 with 20 vehicles built. Even that low number could not be sustained however, production dropping to ten in April 1940.

Nevertheless the number of available Panzer IV's (211) was still larger than that of the Panzer III (98). There were also technical problems with the Panzer III, it was widely considered to be under-gunned with a 37 mm KwK L/45 and production was split between four manufacturers (MAN, Daimler-Benz, Rheinmetall-Borsig, and Krupp) with little regard for each firms expertise, the rate of production was initially very low (40 in September 1939, 58 in June 1940) - taking until December 1940 to reach 100 examples a month. The Panzer force for the early German victories was a mix of the Panzer I and Panzer II machine-gun only light tanks, and Czech tanks. By May 1940 349 Panzer III's were available for the attacks on France and the Low Countries. A few elite divisions were somewhat better equipped with the new tanks and they featured prominently in the newsreels and photographs of the invasion.

The actual invasion, the Blitzkrieg, was an amazing success due to tactical innovation rather than tank quality. Guderian, von Kleist and other commanders such as Rommel broke the hiatus of the Phoney War in a manner almost outside the comprehension of Allied commanders. In actual tank-on-tank encounters the German armor performed poorly, in one particular encounter near Arras the 7 Panzer division was badly mauled by the 'Matildas' of the British 1st Tank Brigade, one British tank carried on operating after fourteen hits by German 37 mm guns.

The recognition that the Panzer III was under gunned was already present during its conception and its design included a large turret ring to make it possible to fit a 2250 ft/s (656 m/s) 50 mm KwK L/42 gun on later models. In July 1940 the first 17 of these models were being made, too late to see action in the final weeks of the Battle of France. Designated the Panzer III Ausf. F, other changes included upgrading the Maybach engine and numerous minor changes to ease mass production.


German Tiger Tank

The King Tiger?s 88mm main gun has a muzzle velocity of 1000m per second when firing armor piercing rounds. It was highly accurate and able to penetrate 150mm of armor at distances exceeding 2200m. Since the flight time of an armor piercing round at a range of 2200m is about 2.2 seconds or less, accuracy and correction of fire against moving targets is more important than with older anti tank guns. This made this heavy predator ideally suited to open terrain where it could engage enemy tanks at long range before the opponent?s weapons were even in range.

For the chassis, much has been learnt from the sloped armor design of the Russian T-34. As with the Panther, the King Tiger was to have sloped and interlocked front and side armor. The front armor was 150mm thick and the side was 80mm thick. Both firms Henschel and Porsche submitted their own designs.

Porsche designed the VK4502 (P) chassis which was built on the previous VK4501 (P) design of the Tiger 1. The codename VK was for Volkettenfahrzeuge or "fully tracked experimental vehicle", 45 means a 45 ton class and 01 represents the first model. The VK4502 (P) chassis had a similar outlook with the Tiger 1, sharing many similarities such as the suspension and automotive parts. Two designs were submitted, the first one having its turret mounted centrally and the second had the turret mounted towards the rear with the engine in front. However, it used copper for the electric transmission which Germany was in shortage of. This design was rejected and did not enter production.


Horten Ho XVIII A

The Ho XVIII was basically shaped like the Ho 8, with aerodynamic refinements for a Mach speed of 0.75, 6 jet engines, and was intended to be used as a bomber with a 4000 miles operating range, which indicates and intent to bomb America. The idea behind it was probably to carry an atomic bomb to New York or Washington, but luckily for the allies, the bomb was still only theoretical, the engines probably could not have lasted the journey, and the plane could not possibly have been completed before Germany surrendered.

Reimar Horten says in his biography:

"Our final contract; to develop a six jet long range bomber, was received on March 12, 1945."

"To gain some experience with large flying wings, I had proposed to double the size of a Ho III, equip it with six 640 HP pusher engines, give it an endurance of 20 hours at 500 km/h, and the ability to carry a few bombs. Such an aircraft would be useful in the North Atlantic war. The official argument against it was that "our bombers already do 500 km/h!"

"The order to proceed with the building of the Ho XVIII came, despite my arguments that preliminary calculations were not completed. Construction was started in Kahla near Weimar in April 1945."

Much too late again. Construction was never finished.

That is all for now, more information shall come later, hope you enjoy

[edit on 103131p://555 by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy]

Mod Edit: Link corrections and quote tags added.

[edit on 13-8-2005 by UM_Gazz]

posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 10:54 PM
Germany was very technologically advanced durign the war. If Hitler didn't go even mroe insane and just start doign the military side wrong and lose the wars. Imagine the horrible world we'd be in
Luckilly he went even more isnane and it didn't happen.

posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 10:54 PM
Interesting. The aircraft in particular is interesting in light of the many sightings of "boomerang" shaped UFOs.

posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 10:54 PM
wow, how do you suppose they of all people were the ones to develop these weapons?

very thorough, liquid and as soon as i have more votes for wats, your gettin one! i enjoyed that read, thank you

posted on Aug, 13 2005 @ 08:41 AM
Many of the technological wonders and breakthroughs were stifled by the internal politics of the state. Different factions within the military combined with the impulsive and emotional leadership of A. Hitler didn't really help with putting the inventions into practical use.
Quite a bit of time, resources both economical and material and labour were squandered on projects which looked good politically but weren't feasible in any other way. Thin resources were spread too wide and either there wasn't enough effort in perfecting the existing technology or promising new technology was set aside because of competing political or ideological matters.
Me262 jet fighter was one of the developments which suffered from politics and Hitler's instability - its development was officially mothballed for over an year when it would've been ready in short time.
Another example is the U-boat fleet, there were many improvements like the schnorkel which could've enabled the existing fleet to survive better, but production focused instead on entirely new designs and developments which took an year or more to become operational even after being built.

posted on Aug, 13 2005 @ 09:52 AM
Very nice insight Count, I have more information i'll post on further Nazi technological advances in the 1930's - 40's era, that'll I'll type up, and post in a bit. Please keep your valuable information, and insights coming.

[edit on 093131p://666 by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy]

posted on Aug, 13 2005 @ 10:52 AM
Hmm, interesting post, LoD. I have to admit though, when I saw the thread, I thought it was going to be about some of the biological and medical experiments that the Nazis performed on their prisoners.

They did a lot of absolutely horrific experiments, like seeing how much pain people could take before passing out or dying, or forcing them to ingest acid or other harmful chemicals and study the results. One particularly warped German doctor (whose name I can never remember) had an odd fetish for twins; he would do strange experiments, like separate two twins physically, and torture one twin, while observers checked if the other twin manifested any physiological changes (kind of like looking for some sort of psychic link, I guess) Anyhow, you get the picture.

There is considerable debate in the scientific community as to what to do with the knowledge the Nazis gained from their unethical experiments. As awful as what they did was, they actually learned some useful things about the human body. There is now a debate as to whether it is ethical or not to use that knowledge, because of the manner in which it was obtained.

posted on Aug, 13 2005 @ 11:53 AM
I think that the name DragonsDemesne has forgotten is Josef Mengele, the "Angel of Death" of Auschwitz.

It has been so long that I seriously doubt that there are any findings which haven't been either used or researched further. Some just to make sure that they aren't useful, and some which have been already proven to be. Unethical or not. There are always people who have no scruples and there are always governments who have no scruples in ordering their scientists to do things they personally find unethical.

One could question if a war is ever ethical. One can't deny the fact that a war is a boon to economy and research - many things we now find commonplace in our lives are direct or indirect results of wartime research and their post-war peaceful applications.

I myself find the medical experiments revolting and unnecessary in that magnitude, and thus I don't tend to think of them much. I'm quite fascinated in the technological (and also spiritual) effects and advances the WW II brought forward.

In my opinion knowledge never hurts, but the methods to obtain it may do.

posted on Aug, 13 2005 @ 01:02 PM
Well the "pre" Ak-47, the mp-44... A very accurate weapon that was one of the most killing ones in the whole war...

The Fg-42, a sniper with auto capabilities...

The panzer IV, a big, and a very deadly tank...

A tiger tank, one of the most feared in the whole war...

external image

The fist "cruise missile" ever... The V1

The most lethal missile of the war... The V2

The radio steered tank killer "Goliath"

The best "fire suppost" tank of the time, the Ferdinand-Porsche...

The german mosquito... The German Junker 88...

One of the most fearedfighters from the war... The Messerschmitt...

The first jet power fighter in the world... The Messerschmitt Me 262...

external image

Mod Edit: reduced large image size.

[edit on 13-8-2005 by UM_Gazz]

posted on Aug, 13 2005 @ 08:14 PM
Wernher von Braun

Wernher Magnus Maximilian Freiherr¹ von Braun (March 23, 1912 – June 16, 1977) was a German scientist, who later became a naturalized U.S. citizen, and one of the leading figures in the development of rocket technology in Germany and the United States. Before and during the Second World War, he worked on Germany's rocket program and made remarkable achievements. He led the development of the V-1 and V-2. At the end of WW2 he entered the United States through a then-secret effort named Operation Paperclip. There, he worked for the US ICBM program and later for NASA (upon that agency's creation). Today, he is regarded as the "father" of the United States space program.

I find it funny that the founding fathers of the NASA program were Nazi scientist
It took their genius to help us get started in the new space age.

Surrender to the Americans

The Soviet army was 100 miles from Peenemünde in the spring of 1945 when von Braun assembled his planning staff and asked them to decide how and to whom they should surrender. Afraid of the rumored Soviet cruelty to prisoners of war, von Braun and his staff realized that they wanted to surrender to the Americans. After stealing a train using forged papers, von Braun led 500 people through war-torn Germany to surrender to the Americans. The SS were issued orders to kill the German engineers, who hid their notes in a mine shaft and evaded their own army while searching for the Americans. Finally, the team found an American private and surrendered to him. Realizing the importance of these engineers, the Americans immediately went to Peenemünde and Nordhausen and captured all of the remaining V-2s and their parts, then destroyed both places with explosives. The Americans brought over 300 train car loads of spare V-2 parts to the United States. Much of von Braun's production team, however, was captured by the Russians. The V-2 rocket plans were buried near Bad Sachs, Germany and later recovered by members of the 332nd Engineer General Service Regiment.
NASA was established by law on July 29, 1958. One day later, the 50th Redstone rocket was successfully fired off Johnston Island in the South Pacific as part of Project Hardtack. Two years later NASA opened the new Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama and transferred von Braun and his development team from the ABMA at Redstone Arsenal to NASA. Von Braun was the center's first Director, from July 1960 to February 1970.
The Marshall Center's first major program was development of the Saturn rockets, capable of carrying astronauts to the moon.
external image

More on Von Braun
Von Braun began building rocket engines for the German army. After some spectacular failures and a number of fires it was time to begin building complete rockets. In 1934 the "A" rocket series began. The A series was a very hit-and-miss proposition. The A-1 never got built, the A-2 worked, but not very well and the A-3 did not work at all. This last was designed to be a reusable rocket, it's major defect lay in the parachute landing gear. The A-4 was a very successful design, and was the first rocket to actually go into space. It later became known world wide as the V-2, precursor to the Inter-Continental Ballistic Missiles (ICBM) that followed.

Rocket design in Nazi Germany was an intensely competitive activity and actually precipitated a power struggle in the German High Command. The Luftwaffe, as the air force, claimed that rocket research belonged under their direction and offered von Braun a fabulous research grant. The German Army, however, and offered even more. Von Braun elected to stay with the army and nearly paid with his life for that decision.

The Luftwaffe had good reason to be jealous. The V-2 was a true rocket, and the potential was enormous. However, in one of those odd twists of fate, the research program nearly died off for lack of funding. Most of the research monies available were directed to the V-1 program, Hitler's favorite. If it hadn't been for Munitions Minister Albert Speer diverting funds from other sources to von Braun the V-2 might never have been built. In 1943, however, von Braun showed Hitler a film of successful V-2 flights. Hitler immediately saw the possibilities in them and funding became lavish.


V-1 Rocket

The V-1 was an unmanned, un-guided, flying bomb. Although primitive by today's standards, it was the first of what we now call a "cruise missile." It was designed by the Fiesler company and designated the FZG-76. The Germans called it "Vergeltungswaffe" or "retaliation weapon." Since it was the first such weapon, it was designated the V-1.
The V-1 was a liquid fueled, pulse-jet drone aircraft that could carry a 2,000 lb warhead. There was no navigation system, so it was simply pointed in the direction of it's target. Simple gyrocompasses kept it level and range was controlled by the fuel supply. It's typical target was a city in southern England.
The first V1 flew in 1942 at Peenemunde on the southern Baltic coast. A series of fixed launching sites were constructed in France, Holland, Denmark and Germany to allow the Germans to shower V-1s on any part of southern England. However, German planning did not take into account a strong bomber and fighter-bomber offensive against the V1 launch sites. This forced the Germans into creating mobile launch sites and launching some from Heinkel 111 bombers.
The first offensive launch was on June 12, 1943. Once the Germans got their stride they launched an average of 190 V1 rockets a day. The British quickly became expert at spotting and shooting them down and only some 25% of the V1s hit their target. The English established defensive zones, first were the fighters (Mosquitoes, Spitfires and Typhoons) over the English channel, then came a thick zone of heavy AA guns equipped with the first radar proximity fuses, then a zone of light AA guns and rocket projectors and finally barrage balloons. Once the Allies captured the launching sites the target of choice switched to Antwerp, the main Allied port.



Role Flying bomb
Crew none
Length 7.90 m 25 ft 11 in
Wingspan 5.37 m 17 ft 7 in
Height 1.42 m 4 ft 8 in
Loaded 2,150 kg 4,750 lb
Engine 1x Argus As 14 pulsejet
Thrust 2.9 kN 660 lbf
Maximum speed 656 km/h 410 mph
Range 240 km 150 miles
Service ceiling 3,050 m 10,000 ft
Amatol warhead 830 kg 1,832 lb


V-2 Rocket

The V2 was an unmanned, guided, ballistic missile. It was guided by an advanced gyroscopic system that sent signals to aerodynamic steering tabs on the fins and vanes in the exhaust. It was propelled by an alcohol (a mixture of 75% ethyl alcohol and 25% water), and liquid oxygen fuel. The two liquids were delivered to the thrust chamber by two rotary pumps, driven by a steam turbine. The steam turbine operated at 5,000 rpm on two auxiliary fuels, namely hydrogen peroxide (80 %) and a mixture of 66% sodium permanganate with water 33%. This system generated about 55,000 lbs (24947 kg) of thrust at the start, which increased to 160,000 lbs (72574 kg) when the maximum speed was reached. The motor typically burned for 60 seconds, pushing the rocket to around 4,400 ft/second (1341 m/sec). It rose to an altitude of 52 to 60 miles (83 to 93 km) and had a range of 200 to 225 miles (321 to 362 km). The V2 carried an explosive warhead (Amatol Fp60/40) weighing approximately 738 kg (1 ton) that was capable of flattening a city block. It was first fired operationally on Sept. 8, 1944 against Paris then London, this was the beginning of the V2 campaign.


I find the V-1, and V-2 rocket utterly amazing in every way.

General Walter Dornberger and German rocket scientist Wernher von Braun were men with extraordinary visions. With their genius, came the first so called “cruise missiles” the world has ever seen.

[edit on 083131p://666 by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy]

[edit on 083131p://666 by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy]

Mod Edit: Large image size reduced.

[edit on 13-8-2005 by UM_Gazz]

posted on Aug, 13 2005 @ 08:38 PM
Very interesting LOD. I've seen many programs on Von Braun and the V1 and V2 rockets. They were very powerful. I'm not surprised the US wanted the engineers wanted the engineers for themselves.

posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 03:08 AM

Rheintochter guided SAM

Ruhrstahl SD 1400 - Fritz-X guided ASM , used in attacks against USS Philadelphia and USS Savannah , and also HMS Warspite

posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 02:21 PM
I Highly recommend this site which has renderings of what the Luftwaffe may have been able to get in the air if the war had lasted until 1946.

Some examples :

Arado Ar E.555

In mid-December 1943, at the Arado facilities in Landeshut/Schlesien, work began on a flying wing project series under the direction of Dr.-Ing. W. Laute. This was further elaborated by Dipl. Ing. Kosin and Lehmann of Arado under the title of "Long Range/High Speed Flying Wing Aircraft". A discussion took place with the RLM several months later in early 1944, and Arado was asked to compile design studies for a long range jet powered bomber. Since the requirements were high speed, a bomb load of at least 4000 kg (8818 lbs) and a range of 5000 km (3107 miles), it was realized that the project could best be fulfilled by using a flying wing design with a laminar high speed profile....

Sänger Amerika Bomber

In June 1935 and February 1936, Dr. Eugen Sänger published articles in the Austrian aviation publication Flug on rocket-powered aircraft. This led to his being asked by the German High Command to build a secret aerospace research institute in Trauen to research and build his "Silverbird", a manned, winged vehicle that could reach orbit. Dr. Sänger had been working on this concept for several years, and in fact he had began developing liquid-fuel rocket engines. From 1930 to 1935, he had perfected (through countless static tests) a 'regeneratively cooled' liquid-fueled rocket engine that was cooled by its own fuel, which circulated around the combustion chamber. This engine produced an astounding 3048 meters/second (10000 feet/second) exhaust velocity, as compared to the later V-2 rocket's 2000 meters/second (6560 feet/second). Dr. Sänger, along with his staff, continued work at Trauen on the "Silverbird" under the Amerika Bomber program.

posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 08:08 PM
How many years ahead were the Nazi German's technology from the rest of the world?

posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 12:21 AM
all of these "Wunderwaffen" got a boost towards the end of the conflict as Hitler thought they could make a decisive change in the course of the war.
There were so many projects that i doubt we've seen them all , eventhough looking at the design of some modern bombers.....hmmm something familiar
Germany had indeed a serious technical advance in certain fields, but not capable of mass producing these weapons as they were complex , other factors like infanntry still being based on WWI tactics , battalions armed with bolt action rifles, powerful and accurate but not suited to a "new" war , the g43 and stg44 only appeared very late , mp39-40 wasn't reliable and on the russian front often abandonned for captured russian ppsh mp's
german tanks were greatly superior to almost anything the allies could put on the field but for every Tiger , they were probably a dozen Sherman which were mass produced
The fact that germany had introduced racial laws didn't help either, many valuable scientists and engineers fled germanyeven long before te start of the war (for obvious reasons), slave labour was used (german women were not employed as workers in factories unlike in allied countries, again due to the "superiority" of the german people) which resulted in either sabotage or low quality production

posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 10:34 AM
Germany adopted some very weird positions before and during WW2.

The war wasn't even planned to come until around 1942 for a start (hence the horrified 'we're not ready' stance of so many German military planners & staff).

Due to an almost total lack of natural resources Germany made some attempts to husband those she had, although a typical theme running through much of German arms development was a deeply wasteful 'scatter gun' approach to almost every system - hence the myriad of prototypes and versions of aircraft etc etc.
(Check out how many Me109 versions there were or Fw190's or, even worse, the airframes, crews and much effort wasted in that ridiculous fantasy concept, out of date before it even began, of the 'zerstorer' where medium and heavy bombers were converted into a strange super heavy fighter.)

They simply couldn't concentrate on producing, in vast numbers, the handful of types they needed and leave pretty much alone.

That and not having the more 'strategic materials' they needed to begin with - the British buying almost all of Turkey's chromium production for several years was a master stroke that denied Germany access to this vital material, similar was done with tungsten IIRC.
At a stroke German jets were forced to make do with unsuitable less heat resistant materials having been denied chromium and with the denial of tunsten German industry was denied the necessary for production tools and one of the more suitable materials for armour and shell production.

It might not be as 'flash' as a sweptwing jet fighter or jet bomber concept but by such mundane and laterally thought out means are world wars won.

Tanks are a fine example of odd thinking regarding production, despite the example of their pre-war auto-industry the Germans completely ignored mass production as a means of producing their tanks (and most aircraft for that matter). Hence the total German tank production - all their various tank types - was surpassed by production of the T34 alone, nevermind that of the Sherman.

Many commentators believe Germany would have been far better served concentrating on the late model panzer4 and forgetting about the Tiger and Pather (each of which 'cost' enormous and disproportionate amounts of materials and resources to produce).

Hitler's belief that the war was won in 1940/41 led to his order to stop work on those projects unlikely to lead to immeadiate benefit - disasterously breaking up various development teams in the process - was typical of the right idea but the wrong 'target'.

When this order was reversed and a crash program of innovation was implemented it was too late (and let's be honest it is far from certain it would ever have made that much difference given the development times required, the resouce postion and the demands the new tech placed on this situation).

German jets are a prime example.
Yes they came up with some interesting ideas and aerodynamic shapes but that is a million miles away from ending up with a properly developed 'weapons system' fit for mass production and operational deployment.
(Some folks seem incapable of taking that point on.)

Unfortunately the whole ramshackle final years of the war and these, mostly untested, ideas 'fit' with a rather childish idea of war and the weapons of war.
Mere 'will' and an amatuer perserverence is expected to be enough and in this case almost 'do the trick'.
Nothing could be further from the truth, nor more murderous to the ill trained and poorly equipted (all senses) kids expected to go out and reverse a tide that was irreversible..

German SAM missiles were merely a pointer to the future, they themselves were a dead end.
Typically, they lacked the fundamental tech a decent proximity fuse (a small radar in the nose to detonate the missile when it was close enough to the target - something the allies had, thanks to British centimetric radar) necessary to make them practical and so relied on wire guidance and telescopes!
It was this AA fuse that enabled the V1 menace to be completely nullified by the wars end (everyone either is ignorant of or prefers to forget that late on in the war the Germans launched huge numbers of V1's at the strategic port of Antwerp and that the allies shot down - by far - the majority of them).

The best indication of where German tech stood was in what was adopted and what was discarded at the wars end.

A lot - though not all - of their aerodynamic science was snapped up on all sides, the allies were to spend the next 15yrs perfecting the rocket tech, the V1 was, kind of, the basis of the cruise missiles developed since the 1960's and the very late type 21 U-boat was to become the basis of much post war submarine design.

That's about it as best as I can tell.

Everything else was either something that was already being developed elsewhere and merely added to existing research (as per the jet engines - and even RAM coatings.....and in fact with the resource and financing situation was being, or would be, developed far more thoroughly elsewhere) or was quickly surpassed (check out how quickly the Russians dropped the various German programs they took).

They were not stupid - like all sides they had their share of very very clever people doing all they could for their country - but equally the Germans were no magical 'supermen' either.

The pity of it is that for some reason the German side has a 'glamour' some seem incapable of seeing beyond (despite......or should that be partly because of?...... the obvious murderous and brutal horror embodied in the nazi 'creed') and so the advances and innovation on the allied side gets ignored.

Whilst people are cooing and wow-ing over stuff like the (only 2 built) Ho9, for instance, it seems a great pity Northrop's work gets ignored and few seem aware of the work done at MIT on RAM coatings.

It is also a shame that the really amazing war-winners (radar, the code breakers at Bletchley Park, the US's Japanese code breakers and the Russian spy network) barely get a look in thanks to a couple of the 'glamourous' jet types etc.

(BTW the 'Ferdinand Elefant' was a disaster - and again ultra expensive in materials that were in short supply - check out it's operational record if you need to, Kursk was a debacle and it didn't get any better in Italy either.

I'd also suggest anyone imagining the Sanger as some sort of wonder weapon just gives a few seconds thought to how much time, effort and vast amounts of cash NASA has spent trying to get the Shuttle reliable.......or rockets in general post war.
A concept is a long long way away from a working developed and deployable weapons system, sorry if that disturbs anyone's German war-winning fantasies.

[edit on 16-8-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 10:55 AM
The V Weapon projects, while fascinating to study were almost utterly worthless militarily. With the exception of the briefly used V3 and the never used V4 the were hopelessly innacurate and not that devastating.

The main flaw with the projects however were the resources they consumed, if the V1 budget had been diverted to tanks and the V2 budget devoted to night fighters the Germans could have knocked Allied bombers out of the sky while holding the tank hordes of the USSR off with a few thousand more Tigers.

posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 05:30 PM
What do you all think about the stories of Viktor Shauberger and the repulsine technology he supposedly invented which is what powered nazi flying saucers/foo fighters?

[edit on 16-8-2005 by warpboost]

posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 09:14 AM

Originally posted by warpboost
What do you all think about the stories of Viktor Shauberger and the repulsine technology he supposedly invented which is what powered nazi flying saucers/foo fighters?

[edit on 16-8-2005 by warpboost]

eventhough i`m very skeptic ..........talking about these ?




posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 10:47 AM
Yes that is what I am referring to. I read Nick Cook's "The Hunt for Zero Point" which got me thinking about the stories of Hans Kammler and the secret underground experiments. What were they messing with down there? Torsion fields? What did Eugene Podkletnov discover? I think his anti gravity interview is a bit weird where he claims there aren't videos or picture sof his work because where he does his research in Finland and Russia expierements aren't videotaped or photographed. He says its just not customary but he will try to make a tape or something. DOes that dound believeable?Yes that is what I am referring to.

I read Nick Cook's "The Hunt for Zero Point" which got me thinking about the stories of Hans Kammler and the secret underground experiments. What were they messing with down there? Torsion fields?

What did Eugene Podkletnov discover? I think his anti gravity interview is a bit weird where he claims there aren't videos or pictures of his work because where he does his research in Finland and Russia experiments aren't videotaped or photographed. He says its just not customary but he will try to make a tape or something. Does that even sound believable?

The most interesting point is how Nick Cooks points out the similarities between the Manhattan project and the antigravity technologies he investigated, but I am skeptical to some extent as well.

[edit on 17-8-2005 by warpboost]

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