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America Introduced Terrorism

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posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 08:49 AM
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If dropping bombs on innocents during war is considered terrorism then, any country involved in warfare during anytime in our history would be considered terrorist. Not until recent modern history were so-called 'Smart bombs' used for surgical strikes on military targets. Let me remind you that America was the first to do this in actual combat. During WW2, dumb bombs were dropped from planes over military targets doing what is called 'Carpet Bombing'. Accuracy was so bad that it took multible runs at a particular target to take it out. Civilains living around the target became cannon fodder. Germany was bombing the hell out of Europe and Great Britian with absolutely no consideration of civilian losses, before America entered the war. Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, killing civilains as well as military personnel. American Military actually considered a land invasion of Japan much like that at Normandy but the loss of Allied forces was deemed
to be more than the America or the Allies were willing to take. The Japanese Emperor was was given a chance to surrender before the first A-bomb was dropped. He was then given a second chance to surrender before the second A-bomb was dropped. If you read your history then you will see that the Emporer wanted to surrender before the second bomb dropped but an attempt at a cue by the Japanese Military thwarted his plans and he was held hostage in his Palace. He had already recorded his
surrender speech to be broadcast to the Japanese public. During the Cue,
All Japanese radio stations were taken over, so the broadcast was never heard. Thinking that the Emporer had refused our terms for unconditional surrender, a second bomb was dropped. By dropping the two bombs, Japan finally surrendered and hundreds of thousands of Allied lives were saved by not having to invade Japan. Now I suggest you do some research
the next time before you post something so pittifully ridiculous.




posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 08:40 PM
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There is a point he's making that may be valid.

If, big if, the bombs were dropped to impress the Russians than it would be crime. If they were to prevent an opposed landing then they're legitimate.

Hiroshima was definitely to stop an invasion. Nagasaki may well have been directed at Uncle Joe (as was Dresden before y'all start!).

These two may be crimes but as the other side started it and we won it doesn't really matter - a crime is just an act defined as criminal

If you're bothered about the deaths (rather than the method of death) then the area bombing of japanese cities with HE / Incendiary killed far, far more than the nukes.

(Strange the 'evil' brit tactic of area bombing which the USAAF eschewed over Germany was fine & dandy for Japan.

Actually the USAAF was area bombing Germany but called it something else for PR, morale purposes - USA with significant German expats couldn't be seen to be killing innocents deliberately - by accident was acceptable.

We had less scruples)



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 09:23 PM
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I'm not even going to call the kid who started this thread the word I have in mind for him, because I'll likely lose ATS points, of not my membership. The bottom line is that he has absolutely no knowledge of history or why the bombs were dropped. Either he's just ignorant or doesn't realize the million+ lives that dropping those atomic bombs SAVED. It also prevented an imminent Russian invasion of Japan, and the subsequent "Korean-style" carving up of the country. If we didn't drop those bombs we would in all likelyhood be dealing with a Communist regime in all or part of Japan today.

The poster also fails to make reference to the atrocities committed by Japan during the war, including but not limited to: the murder of over 20 MILLION Asians (mostly civilians), the chemical, biological and medical experiments committed on Chinese citizens, the torture and rape of Chinese citizens, the Bataan Death March (read about that and you'll truly understand the term "terror"), and more.

It's a shame that so many people have subscribed to this liberal, revisionist history. It really cheapens the sacrifice made by the men and women of the Allied nations who spilled their blood in defense against Nazism, Fascism, and Totalitarianism. His labeling of American Acts of War as "terrorism" also serve as a slap in the face of the REAL victims of terrorism, including those who gave their lives on 9/11 and their families. Not to mention the thousands of others who have been senselessly murdered in the past few decades in the name of a twisted, perverted and radical form of Islam. If our intent was really to "terrorise" the people of Japan then surely we would not have spent BILLIONS of dollars and years of hard work to make Japan into the economic powerhouse and free society that it is today. Rather, we would have simply installed a puppet government and only supplied them with arms as the Soviet Union did so many times with so many nations.

I'd love to see this kid tell families in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, who's family members have been blown to pieces just for being on a bus or in a market at the wrong time, that THEY are the terrorists. And that their ally, the United States, somehow invented terrorism. Give me a break. God help your soul, son.



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 10:39 PM
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Sucide bombers have been around long before the Afghanistan invasion by the Soviets.

Remember Japan?, Germany?, Korea?, Vietnam?

Before stated Hiroshima and Nagasaki was flat out evil, why not actually look up why we dropped them.



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by Peace2005
Well, in support of my claim i can only say that kindly look at the cause of unrest and suicide bombing today, what is main demand from these bombers?, Withdraw troops form Afghanistan, Withdraw forces from Iraq, stop supporting Israel expansions...


Israeli expansion? I thought they were giving the Gaza back to the palestinians (who ironically have a land, which is called Jordan). Maybe someone is listening to a bit too much middle eastern propoganda.

Anyway, how are the nukes dropped on Japan any worse than... Let's see now, I better make a list.
-The fire bombings of dresden
-The fire bombings in Japan
-The Armenian Genocide (Has the bombings beat by quite a few years)
-The Holocaust
-The purges by Stalin of Russia
-The IRA (thats been around for awhile)

Can't think of anything else at the moment, but trust me, the US has nothing (directly at least. We did some things nobody is proud of during the Cold War) on some countries.



posted on Aug, 13 2005 @ 03:28 AM
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Terrorism has been around for a long, long, time. Only the definition and forms of it has changed with it. I believe in this day of age there are terrorists of all kinds, in all countries. Some are more extreme than others obviously. But if you look at the big picture, the US is the big problem in the world right now. Sorry to say it, but it’s seems that most of your Country doesn’t see what every other country in the world sees.

Invading Afghanistan would be understandable from one’s point of view, however, then you should have also invaded Saudi Arabia, since most of the 9/11 hijackers were from there, but you guys love their Oil. Its weird, your country (CIA) trained and supported Bin Laden & the Taliban, gave them lots of money and arms to fight the Soviets out and now you guys have taken their place. President Ronald Reagan liked to call Bin Laden and his organization "freedom fighters". Very interesting.

Also, what happened to your ally Iraq? The U.S. government under presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush nurtured and supported Saddam even when he repeatedly used chemical weapons. You guys were good friends with him then, why not now? Because Saddam also had a problem with Iran, like you, so you became fast friends, funding him lots of arms and money as well. But things change fast with you.

American Soldiers have killed more civilians then terrorists. And what do you have to show for it? Nothing. Hey, I don’t like terrorists, totally against what they do and should be all killed, but always end up killing a lot more innocent civilians instead and cover it up, not to mention a lot of other things along the way. The US loves fighting and threatening to start wars with so many countries, whom are all supposedly trying to create nuclear weapons.

The US is the only country to ever have used them in warfare, and having the most nuclear weapons by far in the world, approximately 10,000-12,000. That’s insane. Russia also has a lot also but has never used them against other countries. You guys have the biggest stockpile of WMD’s, a few terrorists and killed more civilians out of greed. Not to mention the other silent killer, global warming, which is largely because of the US being the world’s biggest polluter. Be careful, I know its seems like nothing to you now, but down the line in 50-150 years from now the earth is going to go through some heavy mutations. Your food, trees, life and the air you breathe won’t be the same. It’s going to suck for all of our grand kids, who all are probable going to have to live in terrible conditions.

You guys have run out of time to change things almost. Hopefully you can but I don’t see that happening. The effects of Global warming is irreversible, as is nuclear proliferation and effects of WWIII will be. All I’m saying is that no one has attacked you except the Saudi’s and Afghani’s, so you should stop bulling other countries. Just remember as said by former UN Secretary General Boutros Boutros a short while ago, “In the next 25 years, we will have new important states, among them new Superpowers India, China, Russia, USA and European Union” which will help with the “democratisation of the world body”. Which mean your power control has already diminished significantly, shown by invading small countries which little or no real organized armies that you are having major problems containing and balance of power is in transition. So don’t be surprised if the terrible things you are doing to innocent people, and the earth’s environment doesn’t come back kick you in where the sun don't shine and leave a permanent mark. Just my opinion…my point of view, as you have your own.


[edit on 13-8-2005 by Darth Tinku]

[edit on 13-8-2005 by Darth Tinku]



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 02:56 PM
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It is utterly amazing to me that this thread even exist on ATS. This is a perfect example of using ATS just to showcase ones personal bias and agenda against the USA. It has absolutely no merit nor worth in
intelligent converstation.



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by Peace2005
August is the month to remember victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki when the 1st Terrorist act of modern definition was introduced by Americans and today atrocities continue with direct or indirect involvment and same kind of attacks with self created enemies killing the innocents. You both Americans authorities, who created, caused and promoted the suicide bombers and who got preyed to these conspiracies, killing themselves and the innocent people are responsible for destruction. The question is who is bigger evil. Decision is your.


You must be ashamed of what you've just said. You are ignorant and, summarized in a few words, utterly stupid.

I thought along your line of thought, until I recently read some books and watched some documentaries for the Japanese over WWII. The verdict from reading and watching these is:

USA did the right thing when they dropped the atomic bombs on Japan.

Here are the reasons:

1. an invasion would cost USA thousands of dead soldiers. Did you know that USA invaded Okinawa; they had almost 40,000 victims alone (dead and injured). What would be the cost in lives if USA had not dropped the bomb and invaded mainland Japan? more than 200,000 soldiers. The Japanese had the plan 'Ketsu Go' which means that 450,000 civilians (including children and elders) would fight US soldiers with every way possible.

2. The Japanese did not change their minds after the 1st bomb! In fact, 60000 dead people were anything for them, since they have sufferred 100,000 casualties in the fire bombings that took place with B-29s in the April of 1945.

3. After the first bomb, the Soviets were ready to deploy themselves over the Pacific. I don't think that you would like to be part of the Soviet Communist state, would you? I don't think you would like to share your bedroom and toilet with 10 other people, while the top members of the 'revolution' party enjoyed luxuries beyond belief?

4. USA was in war with the Empire of Japan and the Axis of Evil, that had the purpose of creating a global empire and to enslave all nations. How easy do we forget?

I am not saying that USA has not done its dirty work. They obviously have, as any country has done. But to say that USA introduced terrorism, is beyond any sanity.

I think we all have to apologise to Americans for our stupidity regarding WWII. They saved our butts, so we can enjoy ourselves in this world.



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by Peace2005
August is the month to remember victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki when the 1st Terrorist act of modern definition was introduced by Americans and today atrocities continue with direct or indirect involvment and same kind of attacks with self created enemies killing the innocents. You both Americans authorities, who created, caused and promoted the suicide bombers and who got preyed to these conspiracies, killing themselves and the innocent people are responsible for destruction. The question is who is bigger evil. Decision is your.



en.wikipedia.org...
According to historians, immediately following the fall of the city, Japanese troops searched for former soldiers. During their search, they captured thousands of young men, most of whom were civilians. Many were taken to the Yangtze River, where they were machine-gunned so their bodies would be carried down to Shanghai. Others were used for live bayonet practice. It is believed that decapitation was a popular method of killing for the Japanese troops. Reports of soldiers being exhausted from decapitating prisoners were common. According to other reports, some Chinese were burned, nailed to trees, or hung by their tongues, and some women had their breasts cut off. Witnesses recall Japanese soldiers throwing babies into the air and catching them with their bayonets. Pregnant women were often the target of murder, as they would often be bayoneted in the belly.


you must be so proud !!!!!


all nations have something to be ashamed of. Saying one or the other is the inventor of violence is ludicrous and ignorant.


Whats that saying about glass houses ???



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 03:52 PM
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You do realize we had already killed several hundred thousand civilians by conventional bombing of Japan before we dropped the atomic bombs.

We had already pretty much leveled Tokyo and several other cities and caused many casualties.

We were at war, things like that happen during war. If we had not dropped those bombs we probably would have had to invade Japan to win the war at a cost of several million Japanese civilians.


Sure the atomic bombs killed alot of people, in the end though they saved more lives in the long run.

Imagine a world without nuclear weapons. I would venture to say that without them the U.S. and Russia would have been involved in all out war during the last half century killing many millions of people. The fact that both sides had nukes is probably the only reason they never did.

The fact that the U.S. and China have nukes is the reason that we will probably never see a war between those two countries as well.

Now that India and Pakistan are nuclear powers I doubt they will ever go to a all out war as well.

Sure the threat of nuclear war is scary, but without that threat we would have seen some whoppers of wars if they didn't exist.


cjf

posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by Yorga
It is utterly amazing to me that this thread even exist on ATS. This is a perfect example of using ATS just to showcase ones personal bias and agenda against the USA. It has absolutely no merit nor worth in
intelligent converstation.


There is, perhaps, a conspiracy: There are those that conspire for peace at any cost; yet who's philosophies eventually lead to war.

.



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