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Links between "New" and "OLD" Worlds

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posted on Aug, 11 2005 @ 11:40 PM
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I'm certain there are links and interesting similarities between the "old" world and the "New" World. I am aware of the following, through reading MANY books about ancient beliefs and historical facts over the last 15 years.

Please share your similarities, facts, truths, or rumor, or interpretation.
Thanks, and looking forward to your input.

1) Substances only known to grow in South America found in mummies from Ancient Egypt during autopsies. (cocain, marijuana)

2) Ancient Greeks had the first God PAN and the Goddess of Earth Giaia story. And similar stories and beliefs were told of PAN and MAYA in South America. Also a city named MayaPan, when interpersonal relationships began with the Mayan culture.

3) Rosylin Chapel in Scottland had engravings of both corn and aloe cactus on it's walls, when Columbus was only 4 years old. Both corn and the aloe plant were only indiginious to the Americas.

4) Similarities with Feathered Serpents incorporated into the belief systems of Egypt and South American Olmecs, Aztecs, and Mayan.

5) Flood Stories. Similar, but different in details.

Care to share?

PLEASE ..... ?

[edit on 08/12/71 by Esoteric Teacher]




posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 12:06 AM
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You say Roslyn Chapel has ingraving of Corn in their Chapel, and this I have heard to.
But, I have noticed Corn mention all through the Bible, so it would have been over there in there Land also. Corn is Mention 102 times in the Bible. I wondered about this to, but never ask anyone because I always believe that America Indians were the ones that had it. They would have got the seed from over there dont you think?



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 12:15 AM
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I was totally unaware corn was ever mentioned in the bible. I've read numerous versions.

Not doubting your claim. But, to my knowledge no corn was known to grow in Europe, Asia, or Africa. Nor was corn known to them until relations with the natives of the Americans were firmly in place.

If corn was mentioned in the bible, it may have reffered to something else.

interesting claim if true. I'll look that up tomorrow, when I get home.

-- Thanks --



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 12:39 AM
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The Bible was written for and about the WHOLE WORLD not just the Middle East. It starts with the one supercontinent that doesn't divide 'till Peleg's time. Australia and the Americas have, in recent times, been found to be connected in pre-historic times but this fact is ignored by most. Why? The ultimate conspiracy, something the "right' families have known since before the "offical" discovery of the America's and Australia, that Australia is the promised land and the world will fight Him at His second coming because the world will be looking in the wrong place.



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 12:50 AM
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I think the Indians were over there many moons ago and they brought the seed here with them.
Got my Concordance right here, I will give you a few places to look. K!
first mention that I see is Gen:27-28 27-37.....41-5
Joseph had it in Egypt... Corn in Egypt..Imagine that.
" saw that there was corn in egypt"
" heard that there was Corn in Egypt"
" went down to buy corn In Egypt"
Look Lev.2:14 " green Ears of corn dried by the fire"
Interesting, so the Indians had to of brought it here. I still think they are part of the Lost Tribes, and this is just my Opinion. I also heard that Abrahams second wife was a Indian. Now where I had heard this, cant remember, but the tribes of Israel were Red Man



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 12:54 AM
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Didnt the Indians even have Hemp? thats why they had a Peace pipe..hehehe think about where that seed come from...hmmm
I even heard that the American flag was made with hemp. ( the original) and it was mandatory to grow it here, when we were the 13 colonies,
Interesting huh? now its Illegal.. Maybe they havent found a way to tax it yet..lol



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 06:58 AM
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it might intrest you to know that during world war 2 the american government distrobuted a film that encoraged and educated american farmers on how to grow hemp, for the use of its fibres, its existance was originaly denied

you can download it here the download link is on the left navbar
www.archive.org...



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by Chasrac64
You say Roslyn Chapel has ingraving of Corn in their Chapel, and this I have heard to.
But, I have noticed Corn mention all through the Bible, so it would have been over there in there Land also. Corn is Mention 102 times in the Bible. I wondered about this to, but never ask anyone because I always believe that America Indians were the ones that had it. They would have got the seed from over there dont you think?



I don't know. Hard to answer to that. I can't reference a 400+ year old bible.


At any rate ......

Back to the original topic, please.

We've had nearly a whole page talking about corn and pot/hemp.

Does anyone care to submit any correlations and/or similarities between the "old world" and the "new world", that seem to lead us to believe they had at the very least ..... communicated?



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Originally posted by Chasrac64
You say Roslyn Chapel has ingraving of Corn in their Chapel, and this I have heard to.
But, I have noticed Corn mention all through the Bible, so it would have been over there in there Land also. Corn is Mention 102 times in the Bible. I wondered about this to, but never ask anyone because I always believe that America Indians were the ones that had it. They would have got the seed from over there dont you think?


I wouldn't read too much into the idea of corn in the Bible. The word corn is(was) used to denote the leading grain product of just about any country. So, in England (source of KJV Bible), corn means wheat. It Scotland, corn means oats, etc..
Definition of Corn


Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
...Back to the original topic, please.

We've had nearly a whole page talking about corn and pot/hemp.

Does anyone care to submit any correlations and/or similarities between the "old world" and the "new world", that seem to lead us to believe they had at the very least ..... communicated?


The idea of corn in the old world is certainly on topic here.

As far as your "mummy link" between the old and new worlds, the mummies you refer to (I believe they were found by a German expedition, and quite a long time ago) were mishandled and therefore most likely contaminated, but we'll never know because they aren't available today for analysis. No recent mummy find has exhibited any "cross-cultural" evidence. As an aside, marijuana, which is absolutely not a product only found in the new world, was not one of the contaminants on the German mummies.

There cannot have been any connection between the ancient Greeks and the Maya. These civilizations existed in eras separated by a thousand years or more. A similar, event more powerful argument can be made against contacts between the Egyptians and the Olmec, the Mayan and Aztec civilizations.

I've heard of the engravings you mentioned at Rosylin Chapel. I believe these were explained/debunked in another thread here at ATS (as was the mummy thing). Try the search function.

It's true that flood myths exist all over the world. It's also true that floods (even huge floods like tsunamis) happen all over the world. Not exactly a good basis for postulating ancient new world-old world contacts.

This is not to say that I absolutely do not believe these contacts could have occured. Just that we have no good evidence of it.

Harte



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 02:05 PM
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I did not know this, but will look further into it. sounds interesting though.
I never thought to think that this could have very well meant Wheat.



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by You Get Served
it might intrest you to know that during world war 2 the american government distrobuted a film that encoraged and educated american farmers on how to grow hemp, for the use of its fibres, its existance was originaly denied

This is helpful too. I Thought that when they first est. America 13 colonies, That hemp was grown here for medical purposes also.



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 02:31 PM
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Corn is just really a generic word for grain. In most translations of the Bible, it says "heads of grain" not "ears of corn."

I think you made an error in saying marijuana in the mummies was some mystery, hemp is an old world plant. However, some of the mummies did test positive for tobacco as well as coc aine, and those are both from new world plants.

I imagine the possible explanations are:

1) bad data, the mummies didn't date from that age or were somehow contaminated
2) old world plants containing those chemicals did exist in antiquity but are now extinct
3) there was actually some precolumbian trade between the Americas and the Old World.



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 08:16 PM
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Thanks for the info on that. I didnt know, but should have known that Corn stood for grain... This is very well true I bet, then by the time the KJ came out or even after that they put Corn in there. Good post!



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
1) Substances only known to grow in South America found in mummies from Ancient Egypt during autopsies. (cocain, marijuana)

As Harte and others pointed out, the mummies weren't tested for nearly 100 years after they entered the collection in Germany. In that time they were taken out, examined, poked, prodded... the substances they found were common in Europe then. I think that contamination explains it quiete well.


2) Ancient Greeks had the first God PAN and the Goddess of Earth Giaia story. And similar stories and beliefs were told of PAN and MAYA in South America.

Okay, I'm going to raise a challenge: There are no gods named "maya" or "pan" in the mayan pantheon. Please identify by name which gods you're talking about so we can judge if the myths are similar.


Also a city named MayaPan, when interpersonal relationships began with the Mayan culture
.
I think you might need to explain this more, since there were marriages among the Maya long before that, and Mayapan wasn't built until 1000 AD or so:
www.mnsu.edu...


3) Rosylin Chapel in Scottland had engravings of both corn and aloe cactus on it's walls, when Columbus was only 4 years old. Both corn and the aloe plant were only indiginious to the Americas.

Chapels never had engravings hung on the walls, except perhaps in the vicar's office. They have statues and icons and panels and stained glass windows and carved elements... but no engravings.

Here's a picture of the "corn"... but frankly there's nothing that looks like corn, and certainly not like the kind of corn that the Indians were raising at the time:
www.rosslyntemplars.org.uk...

Whoever wrote the facts that you're presenting is making up a lot of stuff.


4) Similarities with Feathered Serpents incorporated into the belief systems of Egypt and South American Olmecs, Aztecs, and Mayan.

Would you please give the name of the Egyptian "feathered serpent"? I looked and I don't find any mention of a feathered serpent. The one huge snake that's mentioned is a monster and not anything at all like Quetzalcoatl. There's some difficulty in deciding when Quetzalcoatl was declared a god, and he was rather different for someof the ivilizations that adopted him. But the earliest acceptable is 800 BC, which is when the Egyptian empire was crumbling and writing and travelogues were very popular in the Old Word. The earliest acceptable was about 1400 BC.

weber.ucsd.edu...


5) Flood Stories. Similar, but different in details.

Similarities: There was a flood.
Differences: cause of flood, how much area was affected, how people escaped it, how many people escaped it, how people were made after the flood, deities involved. Egypt doesn't have world flood myths. They had an annual flood which they prayed to happen since it made the lands fertile.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by Indellkoffer

As Harte and others pointed out, the mummies weren't tested for nearly 100 years after they entered the collection in Germany. In that time they were taken out, examined, poked, prodded... the substances they found were common in Europe then. I think that contamination explains it quiete well.

Evenly contaminated throughout the corpse? I considered contamination myself, strongly. And have not ruled it out, but for the mummies to be contaminated evenly inside the corpse seems like a lot of trouble, and a task within itself ....... that perhaps took 100 years to achieve.


2) Ancient Greeks had the first God PAN and the Goddess of Earth Giaia story. And similar stories and beliefs were told of PAN and MAYA in South America.

Okay, I'm going to raise a challenge: There are no gods named "maya" or "pan" in the mayan pantheon. Please identify by name which gods you're talking about so we can judge if the myths are similar.
Read it in a book, forgive me, forgot which one. At any rate it is a worthwhile discussion to consider.


Also a city named MayaPan, when interpersonal relationships began with the Mayan culture
.
I think you might need to explain this more, since there were marriages among the Maya long before that, and Mayapan wasn't built until 1000 AD or so:
www.mnsu.edu...

MayaPan was still built before the Americas were supposedly "discovered".


3) Rosylin Chapel in Scottland had engravings of both corn and aloe cactus on it's walls, when Columbus was only 4 years old. Both corn and the aloe plant were only indiginious to the Americas.

Chapels never had engravings hung on the walls, except perhaps in the vicar's office. They have statues and icons and panels and stained glass windows and carved elements... but no engravings.

The engravings were carved into the walls, not hung. There is still debate over whether Roslyn was intended to be a chapel, or not. I don't know enough to argue that point either way.



Here's a picture of the "corn"... but frankly there's nothing that looks like corn, and certainly not like the kind of corn that the Indians were raising at the time:
www.rosslyntemplars.org.uk...

Whoever wrote the facts that you're presenting is making up a lot of stuff.

Does that not depend on a lot of variables? The efforts put forth by you to discredit information and the same information being integrated seperatly by someone else,.... is still the same information being integrated, whether by a pesimist, or an optimist. Besides, if it wasn't worth considering and/or pondering, why such an effort on your part to do so, or mine for that matter?

Because, it is worth while to do so.


4) Similarities with Feathered Serpents incorporated into the belief systems of Egypt and South American Olmecs, Aztecs, and Mayan.

Would you please give the name of the Egyptian "feathered serpent"?

No, I would not like to give you a name of a feathered serpent in the Egyptian culture.

However, I would like to say that the head-dresses of Egyptian Heirarchy who were worshipped as Gods had snakes on their head-dresses.

Which is a belief system.




5) Flood Stories. Similar, but different in details.

Similarities: There was a flood.
Differences: cause of flood, how much area was affected, how people escaped it, how many people escaped it, how people were made after the flood, deities involved. Egypt doesn't have world flood myths. They had an annual flood which they prayed to happen since it made the lands fertile.

Very much agreed. The"cause", the "how", the "how", the "how, doesn't always dissagree, nor does the "Why, and When".



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 12:01 PM
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I'm certain there are links and interesting similarities between the "old" world and the "New" World. I am aware of the following, through reading MANY books about ancient beliefs and historical facts over the last 15 years.

Please share your similarities, facts, truths, or rumor, or interpretation.
Thanks, and looking forward to your input.


I originally asked, even said "PLEASE", for knowledge that links the "New" and "Old" worlds.

13 posts later .....

little new information to link both.

mostly attacks on existing information.

At any rate, reading 40 to 100 books a year for the past 15 years. Forgive me if I forget my sources, authors and book titles.

Does anyone have any pertinent information linking the Americas in any form or fashion to the "old" world?

Or are we going to continue to try to debunk?

13 posts, no new ideas. mostly attacking and belittling. Thanks guys.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 12:17 PM
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Well, i find it interesting that the step pyramids in central america are similiar in design to those found in the azores.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 02:28 PM
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The Egyptians wrote stuff down.

Therefore if anyone had disappeard on a boat for several months and come back it would have been noted somewhere.

The nile is astonishingly fertile, could they not have grown the plants? Since anyone arriving with them on board would probably have had the seeds.

No contact took place between the two regions until at least the 16th century.

Any tobbaco and coc aine would have come from explorers in the 19th century.

As for the Rossylin chapel, they also have a DNA poillar and the whole thing is supposedly based on designs for the grand temple in Jerusalem. In short its all nonsense.

Flood myths stem from the end of the ice age when people saw huge areas dissapear quite quickly, these stories were passed down over generations, while humas spread around the planet.



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 12:41 AM
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On another thread about the Sea Peoples, Byrd made mention about their possible identity when she said:

'They seem to be a loose confederacy of tribes that lived on or near the shores of the Mediterranean and Agean Seas including the Philistines.'
www.courses.psu.edu...

Then this part is where I find very interesting, that she took note of:

'The inscriptions at Medinet Habu provide an number of clues, including the ship bows shaped like the heads of birds. This was apparently common in the Agean.'

With this said I find it too much of a coincidence that these locations and mythical characters are named after birds to this day:

Azores
Canaries
Tucan (Teotihuacan)
Quetzal (Quetzalcoatl)

There are probably more named after birds. I learned just recently that the Azore was a bird. Does anyone else know if there are more islands named after birds?

I find this a very good source of information connecting the Old World to the New World.



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by Chasrac64
You say Roslyn Chapel has ingraving of Corn in their Chapel, and this I have heard to.
But, I have noticed Corn mention all through the Bible, so it would have been over there in there Land also. Corn is Mention 102 times in the Bible. I wondered about this to, but never ask anyone because I always believe that America Indians were the ones that had it. They would have got the seed from over there dont you think?



are you talking about corn or maize ? the bible couldn't possibly mention maize , potatoes, tomatoes or tobacco (yes i know that traces of tobacco and coca have been found in the RamsesII mummy
)



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