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Bush says leaving Iraq would send 'terrible signal'

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posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 02:37 PM
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Leaving Iraq means that a nation 28 million people is left in s*it that they didnt ask for and isnt their fault.

Leaving Iraq shows the US and UK to be cowards who cannot face the repercussions of what they have done.

Leaving Iraq makes every single death, soldiers, civilians, insurgents worthless.

There is no reason to leave Iraq, no excuse until the misguided, poorly led and badly planned mission leaves the people of Iraq with a good government and an ability to look after themselves.




posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 02:47 PM
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Every time Bush mentions the phrase "national security"

I automatically replace that term with

"the financial security of my crony's"

So if leaving Iraq would put "national security" at risk, you can get the idea.
Disclosure of secret documents pertaining to pre-war intelligence is also a matter of "national security".
Redacted text of documents protects "national security"
The release of the 3 video's showing what actually hit the Pentagon would also put "national security"
at risk.
And of course any evidence regarding extraterrestrial ANYTHING is protected as a matter of "national security"
It's quite amazing how many things lately have been kept from us as a matter of "national security"



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by Uncle Joe

Leaving Iraq shows the US and UK to be cowards who cannot face the repercussions of what they have done.

Leaving Iraq makes every single death, soldiers, civilians, insurgents worthless.

There is no reason to leave Iraq, no excuse until the misguided, poorly led and badly planned mission leaves the people of Iraq with a good government and an ability to look after themselves.


UK and US are cowards; they pick on countries with little or no armies, ruined their infrastructure, economy even further and killed 100,000 Iraqi Civilians. Try picking on China. That would be your last mistake seeing as Brazil, China, Russia or India all has each other’s backs now with their alliance (BRIC). They have more nukes combined, way bigger Armies. Your country would be in shambles.

[edit on 14-8-2005 by Darth Tinku]

[edit on 14-8-2005 by Darth Tinku]



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by Darth Tinku

Originally posted by Uncle Joe

Leaving Iraq shows the US and UK to be cowards who cannot face the repercussions of what they have done.

Leaving Iraq makes every single death, soldiers, civilians, insurgents worthless.

There is no reason to leave Iraq, no excuse until the misguided, poorly led and badly planned mission leaves the people of Iraq with a good government and an ability to look after themselves.




UK and US are cowards; you guys pick on countries with little of no armies, ruined their infrastructure, economy even further and killed 100,000 Iraqi Civilians. Try picking on China. That would be your last mistake seeing as Brazil, China, Russia or India all has each other’s backs now with their alliance (BRIC). They have more nukes combined, way bigger Armies. You countries would be in shambles.


So? This isnt the point of the thread, all i was saying is that the UK and USA have got themselves into this mess and cannot just dump it now the extent of the screw up has become apparant.

The UK could sort out Iraq single handed in the 1920's, perhaps a few lessons should be learnt from the big book of Empire.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 02:58 PM
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Ace of Base,


Would you agree that the long term objective is to have a fairly stable, fairly democratic Iraq that does not threaten to its neighbors? At the same time Iraq must be able to defend and secure its land on its own. The task of rebuilding Iraq will take time. How long did it take to rebuild Europe and Japan after WWII?

I would think that it in a few years time Iraq will be able to take on the main role of security with a small force of US/Coalition forces there if the Iraqis want them to. There is no set number of casualties or timeframe that would justify or not justify our actions there. The long term objective must be acheived.

Iraq whether you believe it or not is just a battle in the war on Islamic Terrorism, a war that the other side beleives will take 50 years to fight.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by Uncle Joe

There is no reason to leave Iraq


Yeah and you also said there is no reason to leave…well you guys should leave because you are destroying their country and their lives. Had no Legitimate reason to invade. You have put them in a worse position then before you invaded. And since you being there is making it worse, you should leave. You seem to have done a great job with stealing $9 billion.

You guys seem to have forgotten about Osama bin laden…go find him instead.

[edit on 14-8-2005 by Darth Tinku]

[edit on 14-8-2005 by Darth Tinku]



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 03:03 PM
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And since you being there is making it worse, you should leave.


Stop for two seconds and think what will happen in Iraq if the coalition leaves.

Civil war with thousands more dead. A new Islamic state organised along the lines of Iran or the Taleban.

Is that really better than a Us/UK occupation?



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by Uncle Joe

Civil war with thousands more dead. A new Islamic state organised along the lines of Iran or the Taleban.

Is that really better than a Us/UK occupation?


Well it seems that your US led occupation has in fact created more terrorists around the world. So consider that as well. The US is pushing WWIII. No one can deny that, and especially when you go to war for profit. I think the world would better of Without Osama but you guys can’t even get him.

BTW you guys supported the Taliban to drive out the soviets, trained them and Osama. Fact not fiction. Seems you keep on putting your foot in your mouth.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 03:12 PM
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Hmm. all interesting points.

Didnt answer my question. Please try again.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 03:16 PM
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Uncle Joe.... "Is that really better than a Us/UK occupation? "

To people living Iraq, yes. You guys are increasing the violence there and killing innocent people so yes. And face the facts, you guys basically created the Taliban.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 03:16 PM
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By staying in Iraq the Islamic terrorists will have won. They will have succeeded in doing what they set out to do and that is to bankrupt the United States. We are going to show them huh. We are going to spend every last dollar we have to make sure they are defeated even if it means not being able to afford a defense for the homeland. They are banking on our inability to control ourselves.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 03:20 PM
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Hmm, yes that democrat goverment that is being painstakingly assembled is very Taleban.

Please dont post nonsense like that. Try using some facts.

Would you prefer to live in an all out civil war with front lines and bombings and wholesale slaughter or in the middle of a terrorist uprising?

No option is a good one here but having the US and UK there beats the alternative.

It is also the only noble thing to do. Look what happened to India when England cut and ran in 1948.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by Uncle Joe



And since you being there is making it worse, you should leave.


Stop for two seconds and think what will happen in Iraq if the coalition leaves.

Civil war with thousands more dead. A new Islamic state organised along the lines of Iran or the Taleban.

Is that really better than a Us/UK occupation?


Civil War is inevitable regardless of what troops we have there or not.
Its happening right now, and will continue for a long time yet.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by Uncle Joe
Please dont post nonsense like that. Try using some facts.

Would you prefer to live in an all out civil war with front lines and bombings and wholesale slaughter or in the middle of a terrorist uprising?

No option is a good one here but having the US and UK there beats the alternative.

It is also the only noble thing to do. Look what happened to India when England cut and ran in 1948.


Sorry to say this, but you sound very uneducated. You don’t have a strong rebuttal and use these stupid tactics. You can’t even comprehend that since the US created the Taliban, you have in fact created a monster worldwide. I don’t think anyone wants to live through these conditions, but any person prefers their own bad government than that of an alien government in their own country. You have done that for no good reason and are ruining their lives and have pushing the insurgency to new heights.
What do you mean look what happened to India? Do you know why the British invaded India? Because before they did they was the Richest Country on Earth at the time and exploited the country where it became poor. British decided to spilt the country along religious lines, which is causing the wars today over Kashmir because of it incomparable beauty. The British were forced out after world war II, because when they were losing power near the start of world war I and couldn’t hold on to India anymore. I should now seeing as I have family in India and England.


[edit on 14-8-2005 by Darth Tinku]



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by Darth Tinku
BTW you guys supported the Taliban to drive out the soviets, trained them and Osama. Fact not fiction.


Actually Darth Tinku its fiction.......let me elaborate and give you a little history lesson.........

When Russia invaded Afghanistan, President Carter was opposed to it for many valid reasons (among some which pertained to oil and logistics) so he sent in covert operations to train the Afghan and Arab rebels, also known as the mujahideen. We also supplied them with fire arms.

In the end some of the Taliban were the mujahideen, but not all the mujahideen were the Taliban. Profound I know........

When the Russians left Afghanistan and the leader resigned, different factions of the mujahideen all wanted the power so a civil war broke out.

Once the Russians left we stopped supplying arms and training. So we were training to stop the Soviets from having the power to control oil and waterways where oil had to pass. We were not training the mujahideen to become the Taliban, that happenned on its own my friend.

And about Osama......

Where is this ludacris nonsense coming from?
The US trained Osama too? outrageous! I guess you learn something new everyday, huh?

That MUST be the good crack they sell in Candada talking.....
I dont usually prefer to do two history lessons in one day but I'll make an exception this time......Its actually kind of enjoyable.....

Osama was born in Saudi Arabia,
he formed Al Queada in Saudi Arabia,
He got exiled from Saudi and lost his citizenship after claiming to have organized terrorist attacks in Saudi,

He didnt find refuge in Afghanistan till way after Russia was gone, the civil war broke out and was finished, and the taliban came to power.

The only reason you have heard about the Taliban is because we went after Osama who was funding the taliban with his immense wealth he had accumalted and inherited.

I think you need to actually do a little research before you post outlandish, nonsensical, rubbish like that...



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 04:21 PM
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I believe that when Bush stated that leaving Iraq now would be a terrible signal he really meant that leaving Iraq now would be admitting that he and his neo-con buddies made a big fat mistake. No matter when the U.S. leaves Iraq, there will be a civil war. Let me say this again.

When the U.S. leaves IRAQ there will be a civil war.

You cannot undo thousands of years of Tribal thinking and social structure through the destruction of a societies homeland.

You cannot force Democracy on a people that are not sociologically prepared for it.

Mr. Bush and his cronies have not only created a magnet for every terrorist that wants a piece of the U.S. in Iraq, they have created a magnet that is firmly attached to the buttocks of U.S. Soldiers wherever they may be until fanatical Islam finally fades into obscurity.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by Chuck Stevenson
You cannot force Democracy on a people that are not sociologically prepared for it.



Please elaborate on this comment.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal

Originally posted by Darth Tinku
BTW you guys supported the Taliban to drive out the soviets, trained them and Osama. Fact not fiction.


Actually Darth Tinku its fiction.......let me elaborate and give you a little history lesson.........

When Russia invaded Afghanistan, President Carter was opposed to it for many valid reasons (among some which pertained to oil and logistics) so he sent in covert operations to train the Afghan and Arab rebels, also known as the mujahideen. We also supplied them with fire arms.

In the end some of the Taliban were the mujahideen, but not all the mujahideen were the Taliban. Profound I know........

When the Russians left Afghanistan and the leader resigned, different factions of the mujahideen all wanted the power so a civil war broke out.

Once the Russians left we stopped supplying arms and training. So we were training to stop the Soviets from having the power to control oil and waterways where oil had to pass. We were not training the mujahideen to become the Taliban, that happenned on its own my friend.

And about Osama......

Where is this ludacris nonsense coming from?
The US trained Osama too? outrageous! I guess you learn something new everyday, huh?

That MUST be the good crack they sell in Candada talking.....
I dont usually prefer to do two history lessons in one day but I'll make an exception this time......Its actually kind of enjoyable.....

Osama was born in Saudi Arabia,
he formed Al Queada in Saudi Arabia,
He got exiled from Saudi and lost his citizenship after claiming to have organized terrorist attacks in Saudi,

He didnt find refuge in Afghanistan till way after Russia was gone, the civil war broke out and was finished, and the taliban came to power.

The only reason you have heard about the Taliban is because we went after Osama who was funding the taliban with his immense wealth he had accumalted and inherited.

I think you need to actually do a little research before you post outlandish, nonsensical, rubbish like that...


Yeah, your full of crap and obviously using lies to further your point of view like many Americans here who only look to there own point of view as truth and watches CNN and Fox all day long…what a joke your News is. Cover-ups are huge in your country. I guess it’s a lie that the Americans knew where the weapons of mass destruction were but never fond them cause they might have not be any… American gov’t has lied alot to further their agenda. And YES the CIA DID TRAIN Osama bin laden and the Taliban and funded them with arms to push the Soviets out, what ever you want to believe go ahead, but your living in a fantasy world. I’m just telling you the truth so get you facts straight there kid. Now your going to tell me that Saddam and the Americans weren’t allies when you both had problems with Iran.



[edit on 14-8-2005 by Darth Tinku]



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 04:51 PM
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Who's looking to only their own point of view as truth.....

All you gotta do is use that smart brain of yours and google Osama Bin Laden and look in the online encyclopedias or something similar.

It'll prove my point.........

The CIA didnt train the Taliban look here.....but you actually gotta read it....
Like I said we trained the mujahideen who later became associated with the Taliban

gseweb.harvard.edu...

This website cites credible resources like books and online pages.

Dont be so quick to dismiss another's ideas just because they conflict with your own........
Why dont you do me the favor and prove to me that I'm telling lies to further my point of view without the first words being, and I quote........Yeah, your full of crap........end quote

That doesnt make you sound too sophisticated......

I eagerly await your proof that I am telling lies, kid....

[edit on 8/14/2005 by TheEmpiricalIdeal]



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by TheEmpiricalIdeal

It'll prove my point.........

The CIA didnt train the Taliban look here.....but you actually gotta read it....
Like I said we trained the mujahideen who later became associated with the Taliban

[edit on 8/14/2005 by TheEmpiricalIdeal]


First off, just because an article in harvard says one thing does not make it true. Your President has lied a number of things and that to Americans have become true. So that's one way to debunk what you saying. Plus in my University lectures we get a variety of articles showing bias from Different universities cause there funded by various group. We got an interesting article on Noam Chomsky from Oxford University and other printed articles from McGill, that say they did train them. I would believe something out of Oxford than Harvard. America had so many amazing Universities publications but again you only rely on what you've heard from CNN/Fox and the "Ivy" that just have a lot of money poured into it by INFLUENTIAL groups. You know Osama’s family donated money to harvard. Kind of bad taste in seeing how a member of that family is a terrorist, and attacked your country, by training your gov't did. You guys have a problem with censorship as I said before, all Superpowers in the history off time has done this.

It's easy to make a fool out of someone...like you

[edit on 14-8-2005 by Darth Tinku]




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