Comparison Between Iraq, and Vietnam

Okay I remember reading about vietnam and about the thousands of Rockets, Guns, Amunition, and Explosives were confiscated. My comparison to Iraq is that were doing the same thing, look at the articles below! Intresting huh? And will probablly doing it on the same scale, with a determined fighting force, backed up by money. I think will actually win this war! Anyway just an intresting though.





WASHINGTON, Aug. 11, 2005 – Several suspected terrorists were detained and numerous weapons caches were seized in military operations west of Balad Aug. 10, officials in Iraq reported today.
During raids of suspected terrorist safe houses in Salah Ad Din province, Task Force Liberty soldiers detained one individual and uncovered three rocket-propelled grenade launchers, nine RPG rounds, a mortar tripod, several rifles and two hand grenades. About 20 pounds of bulk explosives were also found at the site.

In other action, after taking small-arms fire, task force soldiers returned fire, killing one insurgent and wounding another during a raid in Ad Duluiyah.

The task force also detained six individuals and confiscated several rifles, a bulletproof vest, two RPGs, seven RPG rounds, multiple grenades and a 130 mm projectile





source 2






WASHINGTON, Aug. 11, 2005 – Iraqi military units uncovered a weapons cache and roadside bombs, and detained several suspects Aug. 9 and 10, according to multinational force reports.
Iraqi soldiers were led to a weapons cache in Fallujah while on a dismounted security patrol Aug. 10.

Soldiers with 3rd Battalion, 4th Brigade, 1st Iraqi Intervention Force, located followed instructions to the cache from a local Iraqi. The cache consisted of four rocket-propelled grenade launchers, three machine guns, 22 RPG rounds, one rocket, two rifle grenades, RPG fin assemblies, one bag of ammunition, one can of .303 ball/tracer mix, one can of armor piercing/tracer mix, one timing device and one battery.
source one

"It's not Vietnam......
It's another oil company scam.....
Better salute that flag for Uncle sam....
Get ready and place your bets....
It's afghanistan...."
Keith Morris- Circle Jerks


Yeah...... to anyone who can not see that this is our Vietnam, then I suggest getting your prescription filled. We started with the War in 1990, and continued bombing throughout the 90's. If there is any mistake amongst anyone then perhaps a history lesson is in order. To the author of this thread: you are on to something for sure, but that does not change the fact, that no one is listening.......

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
Yeah...... to anyone who can not see that this is our Vietnam, then I suggest getting your prescription filled. We started with the War in 1990, and continued bombing throughout the 90's. If there is any mistake amongst anyone then perhaps a history lesson is in order. To the author of this thread: you are on to something for sure, but that does not change the fact, that no one is listening.......

Some people talk a good game, the question here is can you back it?
How about you explain, in detail, how Iraq is exactly like Vietnam for us in need of a history lesson there, phoenixhasrisin....





seekerof

[edit on 11-8-2005 by Seekerof]

OK, I was going to put this in the Rant forum but this is the thread for it, thanks for bringing it up.

I was sitting on my deck this weekend and a neighbor had Bohemian Rhapsody playing. I saw Queen in '78 and I always close my eyes and picture the concert. Not this weekend, I pictured the ancient video and had an uneasy feeling. That's right, it was released during the VN war. It brought back some nasty feelings. I can only speculate as to WHY, as a memory that has been one of joy for 27 years had been replaced by one of the nasty past.

I see so many comparisons between then and now. Sad that our kids have to witness what we had to live with.

End rant.

I think a comparison would only be possible if the draft was reinstated and the death count starts going into the tens of thousands.

each war is different and unique, u cannot compare Vietnam to Iraq. people say Afghanistan was Vietnam. so which is it? the only reason people want to compare ani war to Vietnam since post Vietnam is to scare America not to fight, mostly by anti war people, which i understand. however as i say each war is different from the other because of different region, new technology, methods, etc. WW1 is different from WW2, because of German Blitzkrieg which made trench warfare obsolete. Korean war is different as well, different region, new technology. Vietnam same thing. the use of helicopters like the Huey, in Korea the use of helos was limited, the introduction of the first guided bombs. introduction of the M-16s, etc. the first Gulf War, the test of land air battle. the testing of the Abrams tanks, the Stealth bombers, etc. different wars.

If you're going to compare wars then on what level?

Body count?
Motive for war?
Amount of munition expended?
Budget?

The only comparison worth mentioning is that Vietnam and Iraq are both wars. Why use Vietnam as a comparison since it was jungle warfare? A better comparison would be with Africa in WWII. What war do you think was compared leading up to the first Gulf War? I can tell you what it wasn't - Vietnam.

I'm looking at it from a viewpoint of society and it's reaction. America is divided as it hasn't been since VN. Look at what it's done to our board, and we're a leader. Lib. & Cons. tags thrown around like a weapon.

Even the music reflects it, ie: Green Day. American Idiot was a pre-election call againt Bush, I see Holliday as the same. Reflect back, War Pigs- Sabbath. I could go on but I hope people see the simillarities.

BTW, if you are reading about then and didn't experience it, I don't think you'll get it.

One upside, at least the people aren't taking it out on the troops.

i guess that includes Civil Rights movements. Counterculture. assasination of a president and replaced by the vp which brought America to war.

Similarities in Vietnam and Iraq:

They’re both Combat Actions, not wars, not sanctioned by Congress and had questionable intelligence.
We can’t always tell who are the enemy (Iraqis are on both sides).
guerilla warfare, snipers. Innocent women and children killed in warfare
American and coalition civilians are having a hard time supporting the troops because the war is viewed as illegal.
returning vets are not being taken care of by their government.
Agent Orange – Depleted Uranium.
No direct indication of when the war is ‘over’.
Protests at home.
No idea of how long it will last or cost.

Sure there are differences:

No draft (yet)
Fewer US losses (more who lost limbs are surviving)

Originally posted by intrepid
BTW, if you are reading about then and didn't experience it, I don't think you'll get it.

Agreed.

One upside, at least the people aren't taking it out on the troops.

It's true and I hope it stays that way. But I don't know. At least they're not being as vocal about it.


[edit on 11-8-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]

might as well include the forgotten war, which was the Korean war since we actually didnt declare war u know. North Korea vs South Korea. North Vietnam vs South Vietnam. but still different.

Originally posted by deltaboy
i guess that includes Civil Rights movements. Counterculture. assasination of a president and replaced by the vp which brought America to war.

That was a product of the populous waking up and taking it to the gov't.

Rights for Black people, women, Latino's. It was a people energized. This time is in the early stages, this will happen again. VN lasted for almost 15 years. This time it's 4 yrs and running. This war is right on time, the music is on time(Green Day), as usual, check out what Mcguire put out in '65(About 3 years into VN):

www.ocap.ca...

The simillarities are adding up.

Originally posted by blue cell
Okay I remember reading about vietnam and about the thousands of Rockets, Guns, Amunition, and Explosives were confiscated. My comparison to Iraq is that were doing the same thing, look at the articles below! Intresting huh? And will probablly doing it on the same scale, with a determined fighting force, backed up by money. I think will actually win this war! Anyway just an intresting though.

I'm sure the Russians felt the same way in Afghanistan. They didn't count on stinger missles coming into the foray. The Iraq war is already won. You'll see mass pullouts once Iraqi's go over 100,000 soldiers, and police.

Originally posted by intrepid
Rights for Black people, women, Latino's. It was a people energized. This time is in the early stages, this will happen again. VN lasted for almost 15 years. This time it's 4 yrs and running. This war is right on time, the music is on time(Green Day), as usual, check out what Mcguire put out in '65(About 3 years into VN):

The simillarities are adding up.

I don't see this as similarities adding up. Was no different for WWI, or Gallipoli, but then again if you didn't experience it then, I don't think you'll get it. This is just the result of war. For and against.

Also we are not dropping munition on Iraq like in Vietnam, not even close. The political climate is completely different. Iraq is a forming government not an exisitng government waging war against North / South etc.. The 60's was the booming of civil rights and drugs. The Russians are not funding anti-Iraq demonstrations in Universities across the nation. Similarities adding up? Not even close.

Vietnam does not compare to Iraq in scope, or on a people energized platform. The best you could do is break down similarities in categories, such as comparable dollars, or tactics. It's quite obvious anti-Iraqi support doesn't fit the bill to anti-Vietnam support when discussing society or people's reaction.

Similarities are adding up?
Really?

You mean when there is the mention of anti-war protests, anti-war mainstream media, US troops being killed and maimed, guerilla freedom fighters [insurgents], 'quagmire', or maybe when we continually hear about defeat, lose, retreat, urban warfare, civilain casualties, that instead of the Vietnam Veterens Against the War there is the Iraqi Veterens Against the War, small numbers of military personel heading to Canada, the scare and hype of the vaunted 'draft', etc?

The truth is that the only thing that is in common between the two is fear; the fear that everytime the word "Vietnam" is used that it invokes fear in the fragile minds of Americans who still remember Vietnam, the fear of a long-term Iraqi committment, the fear of the human costs required to maintain that long-term committment or to obtain those goals, the fear in supporting the mission and the goals required of that mission.

Everytime that "Vietnam" is mentioned, its only purpose in being used is to cause and spread fear; fear of the human costs involved, for which there is no comparison, fear used to test the US and Coalition [military and civilain home populace] will and resolve to carry this mission to a successful conclusion, fear used in hopes that the above mentioned will falter and fail, as it supposedly happened in Vietnam.





seekerof

[edit on 11-8-2005 by Seekerof]

Yes, fear is the correct lexicon; it is this fear that drove Americans to support this spurious war in the first place, and it's the perpetual and constant fear expounded by the Bush Administration before the elections that allowed them to relect the man that had revoked any attacks from terrorist on American soil; it is fear that the children of American are dying in Iraq for very sketchy reasons that drives much of this anti-war discourse.

There is no successfull conclusion to this mission, nor was there in Veitnam, just useless death over spurious reasons.

Luxiero

You have voted Seekerof for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Well said! The only reason it is like a vietnam is because some people want it to be like a vietnam.

Originally posted by vincere7
I don't see this as similarities adding up. Was no different for WWI, or Gallipoli, but then again if you didn't experience it then, I don't think you'll get it. This is just the result of war. For and against.

Also we are not dropping munition on Iraq like in Vietnam, not even close. The political climate is completely different. Iraq is a forming government not an exisitng government waging war against North / South etc.. The 60's was the booming of civil rights and drugs. The Russians are not funding anti-Iraq demonstrations in Universities across the nation. Similarities adding up? Not even close.

Vietnam does not compare to Iraq in scope, or on a people energized platform. The best you could do is break down similarities in categories, such as comparable dollars, or tactics. It's quite obvious anti-Iraqi support doesn't fit the bill to anti-Vietnam support when discussing society or people's reaction.

One question Vincere, how old are you? This is important.

Second, VN started out small, an incursion(does that seem familliar?), it graduated from a police action to a war.

I'm not dissing you, I just lived the last one and know the simplicities, that graduated.

"If you're going to compare wars then on what level? "

Seems to me one of the only comparisons, and I suggest this gently, would be Iraq may just be a no win situation. Perhap's properly trained and numbered Iraqi Soldiers can work it out to a conclussion.

Yet somehow, for some reason I'm having trouble still believing the US can end this trouble with killers who seem to NOT care about being killed themselves? Perhap's if their families were included or their Countries of Origin were being marked -well-well?

Dallas

Originally posted by Seekerof
The truth is that the only thing that is in common between the two is fear;

So... None of the stuff on my list is true, then?

Originally posted by Seekerof
Everytime that "Vietnam" is mentioned, its only purpose in being used is to cause and spread fear; fear of the human costs involved, for which there is no comparison, fear used to test the US and Coalition [military and civilain home populace] will and resolve to carry this mission to a successful conclusion, fear used in hopes that the above mentioned will falter and fail, as it supposedly happened in Vietnam.

That's a lot of bolding, must have a premise.

I see many similarities. Have they got the "body count" yet? No, but read my posts, it's early in this war. It will change. Just like VN, why is it so invisible to people?

Ignore it if you wish, it won't change what is to come. :shk:

More body bags on TV, mine, not yours.

[edit on 11-8-2005 by intrepid]