Permenant Magnet Motor Project, page 1

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Topic started on 11-8-2005 @ 09:09 AM by postings

Purpose
The laws of thermodynamics state that you can't get more energy out of a closed system than you put in to it. While this project may not completely address that issue, it does aim to prove that it is possible to create a viable clean renewable source of power for our generation and the next. To that end we will create a working permenant magnet motor as a proof-of-concept.

Goals
1. Devise a working prototype for a permenant magnet motor.
2. Based on this prototype, create a design that is easily repeatable by other interested inventors. These plans should include, at a minimum all materials involved, and how to assemble them. It should optionally include places to purchase these materials.
3. Devise a working prototype for a permenant magnet motor that generates power or work.
4. Based on this second prototype, create a design that is easily repeatable by other interested inventors. These plans should include, at a minimum all materials involved, and how to assemble them. It should optionally include places to purchase these materials.
5. Research, and share our research in the hopes that it will help lead to better designs.

Guidelines
Currently we are all experimenting with our own designs and posting about them in the following discussion thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

We should continue to experiment, but now post our findings to this topic. One of us will be able to devise a working model. At that point, the first member to do this should post details on this forum. In addition, any research found that is crucial to advancing our goals should be posted as well.
Also, we should use the other thread for general banter regarding the topic as it doesn't have any place here. Once we have a working prototype, members need to work together to build it, and to develop plans as outlined in the goals above.

Members
-postings: Group leader/inventor
-bargaindan: researcher/inventor
-shadow88: researcher/inventor

reply posted on 11-8-2005 @ 09:56 AM by postings

Both of the first two patents appear to require some use of an electromagnetic field however:
Patent1
Patent2

These shed light on some interesting core concepts. Each design consists of a wheel with magnets aligned radially at 45 degree angles with the north end pointed outward. The first one emphasizes that there needs to be an equal number of magnets on each half (10-12 assuming that the diameter is 9 inches), and that they are preferably rectangular.

The following link is to a patent for a permenant magnet motor that does not require any electromagnetic help at all.
Patent3

This is a significant design, and one worthwhile persuing. A similar design. The following was posted to the Keelynet site:

Hey guys, this is incredible.

I was working on a design for a Perpetual Motion Device (PPM) based on magnets and I came across your site. My design was altogether different from yours, but I was searching on magnets and found your site. Well, since I had a workshop FULL of magnets, I decided to try and build a Permanent Magnet Motor for myself.

I thought it would be difficult to get the magnets aligned correctly, but it was quite simple in fact. I spent about 30 minutes tops arranging the magnets.

My design called for two thin sheets of Plexiglas cut into 36 inch circles. I mounted bearings to each, and mounted them on an axle.

I took two curved sheets of Velcro, and attached them to half of each wheel. I glued the other side of the Velcro to the sides of each magnet. This would allow for easy repositioning of the magnets. I then sandwiched the magnets between the sheets of Plexiglas, to add to the Velcro's strength in holding them in place.

I weighed the magnets, and added weights of equal weight to the other side of the wheel, to balance it.

After a few lockups and magnet repositioning, it did start to spin and spin strongly! It's pretty impressive.

Anyway, I then bought a simple 6-volt light generator for a bike at Wal-Mart and started to power all sorts of things. I want to find a small 12-volt generator, so I can power practical 12-volt items which are widely available. I'm hoping, quite soon, to be able to power most electrical items in my house from generators running off these things.

This invention is HUGE! How come you guys are not more popular?

John

Kellynet

What's interesting is that this person's design is similar to that of the 3rd permenant magnet motor design above. It uses magnets arranged radially, but on only half of a disk, and weights on the other half to counterbalance. In my experiments, I noticed a tremendous amount of acceleration with a similar design. The only difference is that my design did not have the counter weights to keep the momentum going.

reply posted on 12-8-2005 @ 04:01 PM by Shadow88

Firstly postings, hi and cool that you have restarted. Now you should get some fresh ideas.

The laws of thermodynamics state that you can't get more energy out of a closed system than you put in to it.

There is a troubling problem with this, as if the PMM is functional.....there's actually no energy input. This would mean there can be no output (which goes without saying that is not the case), so this already defies that la

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am beginning to think that a PMM has a totally different set of variables/laws acting upon it, so the thermo-laws etc dont apply........

we dont actually understand magnetics (we can only detect it by the obvious means) - by that i mean we dont have sensors like heat vision, but "magnet vision"

After some thought, the whole "state" of magnetics could have an entirely separate set of laws, like speed or heat has its own, additional laws

reply posted on 13-8-2005 @ 05:31 AM by Shadow88

This is my hypothesis:

There should be a general law of physics which states: You cannot break Law X UNLESS...... aka: The law of thermodynamics states that you can’t get more energy out than in, EXCEPT when dealing with magnetic energy. Or you cannot travel back in time due to relativity UNLESS you create a wormhole.....Well you get the idea.

What I am saying is I believe EVERY single law has a counteracting law, which can, NOT BREAK, but simply work via by a different set of variables, thus not disproving the law - it is still a correct law - just stating that there is a way around everything.

If I could collate enough evidence for my hypothesis, i.e. enough laws with an out-clause (

) then I could get the law officially recognized. It could be named, (Name)’s General Physics Counter-law

. Although, as a whole, humanity still doesn’t understand much of any specific part of the universe completely.

Now, how does one go about getting laws of physics recognised officially by the scientific community?? Is there some…..”global science HQ” so to speak where you submit thesis’??? Anyone’s help will be greatly appreciated.

also DO NOT post designs- how to build etc- actually on ATS, you never know who could have joined ATS......ANYBODY, plumbers, teachers, CIA, scientists......

[edit on 13-8-2005 by Shadow88]

reply posted on 13-8-2005 @ 07:03 PM by Shadow88

If we are to achieve the goals.....all transfers of designs or revolutionary ideas so to speak should be U2U'd to each other. Remember tesla conveniently died working on revolutionary technology.

You have to think what this tech could do to the global economy. Of course in the long run it would benefit humanity in so many ways, but short term.......if it takes off it will put oil companies, nuclear power plants, coal mines, petrol companies, engine manufactures, electricity companies, government tax, anything related to the business of taxed power into bankruptcy. In fact the economical, political and social domino effect of free energy is incredible

This is the next industrial revolution folks.

reply posted on 20-8-2005 @ 05:56 PM by postings

Good place to purchase magnets:

www.kjmagnetics.com...

-P

reply posted on 20-8-2005 @ 06:28 PM by postings

Magnetic flux:
Still researching.

Monopole magnets:

Evidently they don't occur naturally, however it seems that it is possible to sorta simulate how they work. The basic idea is that you glue the north or south poles of two same-shaped magnets together (for instance, rectangular magnets) and you instantly have a monopole. I have been playing with the concept for a while, and it works almost as advertized. I am sure I didn't do the procedure exactly correctly, so I will have some followup work to do.

Shielding:
This is the most promising discovery I have made (although I am sure it is a fairly basic concept). Ferromagnet materials, such as nails, and refrigerators also shield and redirect the magnetic field. A normal motor functions because power is fed to electro-magnets that when energized help it to rotate. What if there was a way to simulate that process with shielding?

Perendev:
In the following link:

www.fdp.nu...

There is what appears to be a good explanation for how the Perendev magnet motor works, and plenty of other good information. Will post more later.

-P

reply posted on 5-9-2005 @ 03:28 PM by postings

This is a website for a machine-shop. The difference between this shop and others is that it provides a specialized application that allows you to design your own part for them to build. You design it, they build it. It even tells you how much it will cost before they build it, and allows you to preview the final product in 3D. This should be helpful for us in fabricating the required parts. Incidentally I haven't submitted a design for fabrication yet, but I have been able to nail down the design process pretty well.

www.emachineshop.com...

-P

reply posted on 11-10-2005 @ 09:20 AM by postings

Added Brodband as a contributing member of this project. Welcome Brodband!

-P

reply posted on 11-10-2005 @ 08:14 PM by brodband

I have a general idea that I am not afraid to share with the public because I see that this would be an extremely difficult task to do, but I feel it can be done. What if we were able to use "cross magnetics" to create a permenant (and variable speed) type of device? My idea comes to be a 3 ringed device, all of which have magnetic poles on each side of each ring. Apply a certain voltage and current to the load and cause the magnets to repel or attract each other. It kind of reminds me of a capacitor, with stored energy, except with use of magnetics. I think speaker magnets and bearings would work perfectly. Like this:

Applying a DC charge to magnets excites the electrons and aligns the magnetic domains. So for example, putting alike poles near each other, repel each other, giving this "generator" constant of movement (if the distances between the poles are just right. The speaker magnet is a bit of a problem but im sure that we can work this out.

Applying a charge would cause the magnetic fields to become stronger where the magnets are constantly repeling and attracting to each other. So say you put a wheel axle inside the core of this "magnet motor", would it roll? The more of the charge applied, the stronger the attraction of the electrons to the neutrons. I will be working on this project if I can get some magnets, I will post pictures of our invention. Any more ideas? U2U me or post here

Edit: Picture, the Inner band is supposed to be the outer and visa versa.

[edit on 10/11/0505 by brodband]

reply posted on 30-11-2005 @ 09:37 AM by Shadow88

Ok i mentioned in the Non-project thread to postings that i had done some CAD models for a prototype. Again, it is not a measurement-accurate model and the finished model will include two sets of rings, it just took forever to get one set looking perfect.

Note: On the last pic, the base has been blacked out for viewability. Ask any questions you have although one of my last posts in the linked-to thread explains quite a bit.

(I will be posting a small conceptual video tomorrow by the way)

Well firstly i will be using neodymium as they are high power and fairly cheap.

To gain the maximum torque i will likely not be using ball bearings, but a liquid-based drag reducer, but i will get a professional opinion on which would be the best.

The shell and supports will be made out of non magnetic material, whether that be some kind of strong plastic or simply non magnetic metal.

The finished prototype will have two sets of rings; each angular section you can see will be a separate magnet; there will be spacers between each.

As for the weight, see, this is why i was leaning toward using as much plastic as possible, for weight reduction, but the base would have to be either weighted or screwed down, as it will likely vibrate a lot.

Lastly G+S the power. Obviously i cannot say how much power will be produced, but if its not sufficient to power many external devices "live", then i will look into firstly increasing torque, and if all else fails it will have a storage device that it would charge up overnight for example.

In all honesty im an inventor (no thats not a full time job ), im not an electrician so electronics isnt my forte. I have a good friend however that is collaborating with me on the electricity generation and storage etc. Im just building the device itself and focusing on the workings of the PMM. Storing or utilising that kinetic-potential energy comes later.

EDIT: oh sorry and specification/custom parts; I will be working with my father, who is an expert in engineering, metalwork etc. (as he works in those fields) and has access to the neccessary machinery to build parts for a working prototype.