StarWars Program. A complete discrase and waste of money.

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posted on Aug, 11 2005 @ 02:45 AM
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The Star Wars Program

I recently came across a high-impact news event which just occurred was reported by defense specialist writer Bill Gertz in the Washington Times. Just two weeks ago, the Russians secretly test-flew a prototype SS-25 ICBM missile, which behaved in a very strange way. All previous ICBM nuclear missiles are blasted off from Earth, enter a near-earth orbit in outer space and then within less than 25 minutes can drop out of orbit, reenter the atmosphere and hit any target on the Earth's surface. The Russian SS-25 blasts off as usual, but just before leaving the atmosphere it turns parallel to the Earth's surface and flies like a cruise missile or jet bomber airplane at a height of about 25 miles and a speed of Mach 5. Why is that important?

At that speed and altitude, if the SS-25 is painted black and covered with stealthy radar-absorptive material like a US-made B-2 stealth bomber, it can neither be tracked nor intercepted by any Patriot-type anti-missile system. Also the SS-25, by never leaving the atmosphere, and by using a new scramjet technology to fly at supersonic speeds at the very top of the atmosphere, is completely unaffected by any HAARP anti-missile radiation cloud, which only works in the vacuum of outer space.

The design of the Russian SS-25 scramjet was made specifically to counter the newly developed HAARP radiation cloud shield technology, and not any new Air Force "Son of Star Wars" kill missiles, which would be ineffective against a stealthy SS-25 anyway. Thus the trillion-dollar proposed anti-missile defense shield centered around Fort Greely and HAARP has already just been made obsolete.

Did the policy and strategy boys at the Pentagon know this was about to happen? Or were they asleep at the switch? Certainly Congress had no clue, or did they? As I pointed out in the book, Black Gold Hot Gold, this very event has long been in the planning. Unlike the U.S. and the rest of the world, which are now struggling with weakening economies and rising unemployment, China alone is rolling along at an astounding 8% annual economic growth rate. China has the wealth and fortitude to purchase a whole fleet of Russian-made SS-25's. That should keep the policy planners at the Pentagon staying up all night just worrying about when that might occur. Probably before the 2004, "emergency" construction is completed at Fort Greely.

The "Star Wars" program is clearly looking a lot like a 3-dimensional Maginot Line. Despite the proposed expenditure of trillions of dollars for a missile defense system, the Russians have already discovered the "Ardennes Forest," which allows the enemy to simply run around the expensive defense line unopposed. The current Star Wars debates are a mere smoke screen designed to beguile the public and leave the U.S. defenseless, open to attack and with a bankrupt economy. Are there people in Congress who knew about this? You bet. Are there people in Congress who have, in fact, "bought stock" in the Chinese economy and would benefit greatly from a war with China in which the U.S. loses? You bet. Would I call that treason? You bet.




posted on Aug, 11 2005 @ 03:23 PM
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Unless your name is Marshall Smith, you just ripped this off.

Here is the link to the site: www.brojon.org...


THE 3-D MAGINOT LINE

The other high-impact news event which just occurred was reported by defense specialist writer Bill Gertz in the Washington Times. Just two weeks ago, the Russians secretly test-flew a prototype SS-25 ICBM missile, which behaved in a very strange way. All previous ICBM nuclear missiles are blasted off from Earth, enter a near-earth orbit in outer space and then within less than 25 minutes can drop out of orbit, reenter the atmosphere and hit any target on the Earth's surface. The Russian SS-25 blasts off as usual, but just before leaving the atmosphere it turns parallel to the Earth's surface and flies like a cruise missile or jet bomber airplane at a height of about 25 miles and a speed of Mach 5. Why is that important?......


WTF? this was posted on brojon.org in July 2001

Care to explain?



posted on Aug, 11 2005 @ 03:30 PM
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discrase


I hope to god you are not a product of the US education system, or that English is not your first language....



posted on Aug, 11 2005 @ 03:50 PM
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dam, I forgot to post a link to the article.. Im an idiot, lol.. Sorry, I'll have the post edited to contain a reference to the article. I just thought people wanted to discuss it.



posted on Aug, 11 2005 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by syrinx high priest
discrase

I hope to god you are not a product of the US education system, or that English is not your first language....


Please refrain from insults here on ATS. As you may not be aware many of our members are ESL speakers. Nor does pointing out gramatical/spelling errors of posts add to the discussion in any way shape or form.


On the posted topic: Even if the source is accurate, was Reagan's Star Wars program really a waste? Not really. The trickle down of technology from the research stated under Reagan has effected everything from lasers to MRI scanners and the like. The benifits go beyond knocking down a few missiles.


[edit on 8/11/05 by FredT]



posted on Aug, 11 2005 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
On the posted topic: Even if the source is accurate, was Reagan's Star Wars program really a waste? Not really. The trickle down of technology from the research stated under Reagan has effected everything from lasers to MRI scanners and the like. The benifits go beyond knocking down a few missiles.


[edit on 8/11/05 by FredT]


Exactly. A lot of people don't understand that money put into the military is generally money put back into the american economy. The military isn't some black hole that eats money. Contractors, scientists, engineers and military personnel are all paid by the military (I read that something like 99% of what the military spends directly goes back to americans, although soldiers based in foreign bases will obviously put money into the economies of the countries they are based in). As an added bonus, the military actually develops a lot of technology used by civilians. Two examples I can think of off the top of my head are artificial rubber and food preservation processes that keep fruits and frozen meals fresh.



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 03:31 AM
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|The shield isn`t designed to stop a massive russian attack - it simply cannot deal with the huge numbers of mirv`s ; even the russian ABMsystem , which is operational and has been for 20 years , is now questionable as to its effectiveness - but at least they have one! - Safeguard was closed after less than 1 year old operation (protecting Grand Forks)



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 10:40 AM
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sorry. my bad. The insult was uncalled for.

I wasn't thinking



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 12:47 PM
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.
I don't have a problem with research money going into it.
My problem is with deploying it before you even have a working prototype.

I think that like idiots the Pentagon, president and Congress all rushed to create a system without a technology to back it up.
Washington is run by corporate low-lifes who are there just to pork barrel. If they can get their pork as a 'black ops' program then there isn't even a prayer that it will ever be audited.

With a government like this, maybe we would be better off without one.

This system is so easy to evade it is being done even before it gets deployed.

Obsolete by the time the first installation is completed.

How stupid.

[edit on 12-8-2005 by slank]



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 02:04 PM
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I agree that the government does make spin-offs of its military technology in the real world, but this technology really won't work to take down the stealthy missiles developed by the foriegn nations. I believe that we should stop putting money into such missile defence systems and work on our relationships with other nations, boarder security, personal security, and nuclear waste management and disposal. Our government should abandon all of our missile silos and then ask others to do the same, if everyone put down their weapons we could enter a new era of peace and prosperity (It does sound much like a pipe dream..)



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 02:43 PM
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They were saying the exact same thing right before WWII. There was even a treaty declaring the use of force as a means of diplomacy illegal... and we all know how that turned out.



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 11:47 PM
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Even if you believe that the Russians could "secretly" test a SS-25 (which would in itself be a violation of the Nuclear Threat Reduction treaty requiring at least 24 hours notice of any ICBM test - which would also easily be picked up by US DSP IR sensors in space) - the logic in the article is way off.

First, all Russian and US warheads are black (not paint, but a carbon ablative material) and designed to have very low radar cross sections. Second, the heat generated by an object travelling at Mach 5 in the atmosphere (even at 25 miles) would be easily detectable, and easy to target. Third, the US ABM system has never been intended to stop a Russian attack. The Russians could easily defeat the system with sheer numbers, not to mention that their other anti-ABM systems are very advanced (such as chaff, low RCS RV's, etc.)



posted on Aug, 13 2005 @ 12:08 AM
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im not missile expert, but after talking with some friends and read some articles, well that is my opinion...

well,actually ABM sistems also were tested by the russians ,in fact they have missiles specializated in ABM defence, but only for the Moscow and St. Petesburg defence, also the US studied versions of the Nike missile as ABMs

the main reason of the relative peace in USA, Europe and Russia -or SU- was the fear of the nuke bombing

i dont know in which direction the modern US program is working, is about interceptors??, lasers??, btw they are testing S300???

now with the progress of the ABM sistems the leaders could be fearless, China can learn from the soviet program and design its own ABM sistem -or even other country can do-, the point is that in such scenarie there will be always a idiot that will think "my country is the best and the most powerful and we are the bravest men, so if we have such technologic wonder
called ABM sistem, well i think that we could win the war"
, at the end of the day they discover that the wonder wasnt soo wonderful, but is too late


but that is a scenarie for the next 20-30 years, nobody will left the nukes, but is probable one increase in the interest of the ABM systems

btw the low heigh actually help the missile against the ABM system, remember that one thing is a warning detection sensor and other veeeery different is a tracking searching fire controll radar-sensor, if you flight at low level, you reduce the time for reaction for the fire controll system, obviusly by reducing the fire-shoot horizont

is probable that for the time the US coud have their ABM white elephant, china could have their topols

but always there are other alternatives like FOBS-but is prohibited by SALTs- , such system outclass the ABM net, if the US want to breake the missile pact, why not China or other countries???, so its not about the weapons, is a political problem, that could result in the re-starting of the development of new missiles, that paradoxically make obsolete the Star Wars
, only because the president friends want more money....

btw, the ABM is based in nuke heads???




[edit on 13-8-2005 by grunt2]



posted on Aug, 13 2005 @ 07:31 AM
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www.wonderland.org.nz...

russian ABM system - in operation for over 20 years

srmsc.org...

American ABM system is operation of a year

both use(d) nuclear tipped misiles , the long range missile having a megatonne warhead (enhanced radiation type) whilst the smaller *last ditch* missiles having smaller warheads

The US long ranger *sparton* was based upon the Nike Zeus , but the print was a new design.

The US has pulled out of the ABM treaty - so whats stopping the Russians pulling out of the SALT treaty and putting a FOBS into space??



posted on Aug, 13 2005 @ 08:48 AM
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Werent projects like ths Sar Wars program created so that the Russians would bankrupt themselfs trying to keep up.....If so, then yes, It was a waste of money.



posted on Aug, 13 2005 @ 01:01 PM
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please dont start with that "the SU fall by the weapon race", because that wasnt the cause, if you analyse the SU history you should know


is funny how that myth is used as a bizarre excuse, only to find the "success" of a project


I wouldnt be worried by the russians, the problem is what if China, Iran, NK, start with the same behavior of the US, and they put operational FOBS???, the technology was veeeery tested in the 60s-70s, the SS9, SS18 and other soviet missiles in some versions were FOBS, so it is a more secure world???, and not only that, now imagine Chine with it own ABM system, Topols and FOBS, nice scenarie....

actually with the politic scenarie for the next 20-30 years could be more probable a nuke expoding in New York, than in the cold war

[edit on 13-8-2005 by grunt2]



posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 10:33 AM
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I think most of the group may have gotten caught up in all of the political hype of missile defenses and missile shields. The realality is different then the ideal. First of all:No Country is CAPABALE of Stopping an all out Nuclear Attack! There is no impenetrable sheild, and there never was!

Most war Plans for using Nuclear weapons, like the US SIOP, contain provisions for a multifacited strike. The details of these plans are highly classified, but here's what we do know about it:

The US system is based on a concept known as the Strategic Triad, which has three seprate elements: Bombers, Land based Missiles, and Submarine Launched Missiles.

There are also two types of nuclear missiles Ballistic Missiles, and Cruise Missiles. Star Wars and similar systems were developed to counter Ballistic Missiles, which usually launch into space and then fall back to earth. They have no effect against Cruise Missiles, which are design to fly very low and come in under the radar literaly. These missile fly so low that the have to fallow the contors of the earth to avoid crashing into the ground.

With this kind of miltifacited plan of attack, even a fully operational version of Regan's Star Wars concept doesn't make anyone "Bullet Proof". The only sure-fire way to protect youself from a nuclear bomb, is to avoid getting one thrown at you to start with!

Tim

[edit on 17-8-2005 by ghost]





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