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Debunkers I need help: quantum BS

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posted on Aug, 10 2005 @ 08:50 PM
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So my boss and everyone at my company are completely taken by that movie "What the Bleep do We Know", and are suddenly believeing in all this ridiculous new-age medicine because it was mentioned to have something to do with "quantum physics".

So this quack "doctor" in this town says he can cure all your problems by pressing a special button in his office, sending out radio waves that will transform the molecules in your blood, curing any problem through the miracles of quantum physics. Even more amazing, after the first visit, you can just call him and he will beam you a QP cure!

This is so damn ridiculous I cant even get my head around a counter-argument. I tried telling them that "movie" was just propaganda from some weird cult, but nobody takes me seriously. They say the science is indesputable (deformed ice crystals from "bad" words, quantum ambiguity). While I found some harsh movie reviews, I couldnt really find any science articles confronting this nonsense. Has it been discussed here before?

What I'd really like to do is prove that "doctor" as a fake. I cant stand to see people making a living this way. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!




posted on Aug, 10 2005 @ 08:56 PM
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Benny Hinn does it all the time.

It's just a different approach.

Caviat Emptor - which in this case is roughly translated "idiot beware".



posted on Aug, 10 2005 @ 09:00 PM
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Don't ruin it for them!

Just sit back an chuckle.

Besides, you can not disproove something. The fact is that there is just no proof in it.



posted on Aug, 10 2005 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by jacquio999

So my boss and everyone at my company are completely taken by that movie "What the Bleep do We Know", and are suddenly believeing in all this ridiculous new-age medicine because it was mentioned to have something to do with "quantum physics".

So this quack "doctor" in this town says he can cure all your problems by pressing a special button in his office, sending out radio waves that will transform the molecules in your blood, curing any problem through the miracles of quantum physics. Even more amazing, after the first visit, you can just call him and he will beam you a QP cure!




Quantum physics differs from classical physics in that the universe is quantized into energy packets based on Planck's constant (hbar). Classical physics sets hbar to zero so that there is a continuous, rather than discretized, energy spectrum.

So what does that have to do with curing disease? Nothing.

It's possible that in the future that we will be able to attack cancer cells and adjust certain other parameters in our body's internal processes at the molecular or atomic level via nanotechnology.

It's also possible that new advances in electromagnetic radiation could invent beams that accomplish certain specific effects. Lasers and other similar beam forming devices require a knowledge of quantum physics to work.

However, just having a laser beam or an infrared or other ablative mechanism is only part of the puzzle. The other part is how to deliver it (surgically inside a blood vessel, or non-invasive, etc.).

It is extremely unlikely that someone could just "press a button" without having an exactly pinpointed coordinate in the body where the radiation would like to be delivered to exactly. There's also a question of what would happen to the cells and tissue that are in between the desired cell, and the beam.

Then there is the issue of locating the cancer cell to begin with.

I would find it far more likely that we will have little microbot cells that could be injected, that could deliver drugs directly to certain problem cells or other ways of digesting and eliminating cancer cells. I don't see that a beam alone could do all of this.

That's assuming the ailment is cancer, but there are so many other ailments that are possible, no I cannot possibly see something that simplistic.



posted on Aug, 10 2005 @ 09:20 PM
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Thanks for your responses.

This doctor says my boss is suffering from too much O2 in the blood, because some other molecules have bonded in a way only his magic quantum physics beam can shake apart. He doesnt have to locate you because he's tuned in to your quantum frequency. How do you argue with something like that?



posted on Aug, 10 2005 @ 09:29 PM
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Originally posted by jacquio999

Thanks for your responses.

This doctor says my boss is suffering from too much O2 in the blood, because some other molecules have bonded in a way only his magic quantum physics beam can shake apart. He doesnt have to locate you because he's tuned in to your quantum frequency. How do you argue with something like that?




You don't. You leave the situation as soon as possible and report him to the FBI as a possible fraud. If you are not willing to go that far, at least tell a newspaper reporter to check him out.



posted on Aug, 10 2005 @ 09:33 PM
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If you were feeling bold you could ask him which other molecules were "bonding" with the 02. Remember, oxygen is carried in your bloodstream by Red Blood Cells that contain iron. There are certain situations where people can have imbalanced oxygen levels, however, they are usually because of high altitude of anemia (lack of iron).

Unless your boss is climbing a peak in the Andes or hasn't eaten red meat in 10 years I rather doubt there is anything wrong with his blood.

Of course, I am not a doctor, but it doesn't sound like this guy is either. If you are paranoid go find an MD at a clinic or hospital, I am sure they can debunk this guy.



posted on Aug, 10 2005 @ 09:35 PM
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Newspaper! Yes that was the idea I was looking for. This is a very small town and the paper is strictly local. I need a valid way of disproving him though...



posted on Aug, 11 2005 @ 01:58 AM
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Originally posted by jacquio999
Newspaper! Yes that was the idea I was looking for. This is a very small town and the paper is strictly local. I need a valid way of disproving him though...



Get the newspaper to team up with a reputable MD he won't recognize who will pose as the curious husband of the sick undercover reporter and ask some hard questions on tape


[edit on 11-8-2005 by warpboost]



posted on Aug, 11 2005 @ 10:17 AM
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Also, you just report him to your state medical board, since he is practising medicine without a license. He'll be fined heavily and watched closely.



posted on Aug, 11 2005 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by grad_student
You don't. You leave the situation as soon as possible and report him to the FBI as a possible fraud. If you are not willing to go that far, at least tell a newspaper reporter to check him out.


Definatly, because for all you know, this guy believes his own bullocks and has an antenna array built that puts out way to much power to be healthy to anyone. (High power radio transmissions are really not healthy)

Not to mention unlisenced high power radio transmitters are illegal.

Ps. Its not Quantum Physics itself being discussed as BS here, but the doctor right?



[edit on 11-8-2005 by thematrix]



posted on Aug, 11 2005 @ 11:36 AM
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Wow, thanks for the advice everyone! I knew there had to be something illegal about practicing fake medicine.

About quantum physics being BS, that is sort of my point. I understand is is just a different set of rules separating the movements of sub-atomic particles from macro-atomic objects in the classical set of rules.

Doctors like this, and the weird JZKnight/Ramtha cult have used a few anomolies found in this new rule set to create their own fantasy land where everything is all in your head. Because an electron can exist in two places at once, they take this to mean you can walk on water, if you only believe. If you get struck by lightning, it is because of your own bad attitude. I understand there is a study of sub-atomic particles, I also understand it proves none of this, though this is what quantum physics has come to mean to me.

They keep pointing to an "experiment" where "bad", ugly ice crystals were formed at the sound of negative words such as "Hitler". How this experiment was performed is not known, but it doesnt seem to matter to those who regard the hoaxers as "scientists". This proves to them that the world is made of thoughts, and thats what quantum physics means to them. If anyone can help debunk this particular hoax I would be thrilled.

So, there are two versions of quantum physics, and yes, one is BS. As Quest said, its really hard to disprove something.



posted on Aug, 11 2005 @ 07:49 PM
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What about the energy factor? How much energy does this guy need to 'push the button' and 'transfer' the cure to individuals? Where is the energy consumption difference made up?

Write a letter or an e-mail to Doc whatever and ask him about this, or anyother question, take the letter, add a rebuttle and send it to your newspaper.

EDIT: Read the guys power consumption, track it day by day and use this do debunk him if power consumption is weak.

[edit on 11-8-2005 by Frosty]



posted on Aug, 11 2005 @ 11:15 PM
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Start with Quackwatch: www.quackwatch.org

And check out some of the material on Randi's board www.randi.org



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 12:45 AM
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Originally posted by jacquio999

They keep pointing to an "experiment" where "bad", ugly ice crystals were formed at the sound of negative words such as "Hitler". How this experiment was performed is not known, but it doesnt seem to matter to those who regard the hoaxers as "scientists". This proves to them that the world is made of thoughts, and thats what quantum physics means to them. If anyone can help debunk this particular hoax I would be thrilled.


Wow, do these people live in the 1200's or something? They'd make a fortune if they did, but I wouldn't expect them to make it in this world where everyone should be a skeptic.

[edit on 8/12/2005 by Lifeadventurer]



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 03:28 AM
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You could ask your boss to imagine that every time the quack doc says "quantum physics" to replace it with the word "magic" instead. See how much sense it makes then.

In terms of What the Bleep Do We Know, the UK paper The Guardian asked 5 British Scientists what they thought of it:

www.guardian.co.uk...

One of them, a Professor of fluid dynamics, actually seemed to like it, though it sounds like he watched a different film to everyone else. The rest despised it.

Also Dr Ben Goldacre (he has a proper doctorate, unlike the "scientists" who advised on the film who got theirs mail order), from the same paper mentions it in his Bad Science column:

www.guardian.co.uk...

I hope this is useful in in your battle against nonsense.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by jacquio999
Wow, thanks for the advice everyone! I knew there had to be something illegal about practicing fake medicine.

About quantum physics being BS, that is sort of my point. I understand is is just a different set of rules separating the movements of sub-atomic particles from macro-atomic objects in the classical set of rules.

So, there are two versions of quantum physics, and yes, one is BS. As Quest said, its really hard to disprove something.


Jesus christ dude do you live in like rural Idaho or something?!

There is nothing BS about quantum physics. There is definately ONLY ONE kind of quantum physics ... that being, quantum physics!!

This guys is not talking about quantum physics he is talking out of his anus.

Figure out a way to raise some hype on it.

A side story ... my mother once went to an "allergist." They took blood samples, and she "discovered" she was "allergic" to X, Y and Z. She started changing her diet. Then 6 months later it was discovered that he was a quack and was throwing away the blood samples, and randomly generating diets. Hundreds of people became involved in a giant group lawsuit.

These things happen periodically, and if you don't do anything about it now, someone else will inevitably succumb to the same witchdoctor ...



posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 10:33 AM
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Well, back in the 60's there was a french guy who was able to cure cancer with the use of EM radiation. His name was Antoine Priore (Google his name for more info). His work was first ignored then supressed. Thomas Bearden's work on EM healing is based on Priore's. There's also a mainstream science experiment that showed that living cells can transmit disease/health information through photons. They showed this with living tissue that was dying, placed next to tissue that was kept alive. When the diseased tissue became more ill, so was the other.

The doctor you're talking about is probably a quack, but quantum physics is least of all, "BS". It's even the most accurate physics ever discovered. There are frauds everywhere, but I wouldn't worry about them. Those who don't use their brains are just as bad as those who have none...so they deserve to get scammed.



posted on Aug, 19 2005 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by Dr Roboto
Well, back in the 60's there was a french guy who was able to cure cancer with the use of EM radiation. His name was Antoine Priore (Google his name for more info). His work was first ignored then supressed. Thomas Bearden's work on EM healing is based on Priore's. There's also a mainstream science experiment that showed that living cells can transmit disease/health information through photons. They showed this with living tissue that was dying, placed next to tissue that was kept alive. When the diseased tissue became more ill, so was the other.

The doctor you're talking about is probably a quack, but quantum physics is least of all, "BS". It's even the most accurate physics ever discovered. There are frauds everywhere, but I wouldn't worry about them. Those who don't use their brains are just as bad as those who have none...so they deserve to get scammed.



In fact, I have his book right here signed by him to me.

Quantum physics is not what is BS, it's the quack that this poor guy is dealing with. I agree that there is merit to a better understanding of various frequencies in adjusting cellular enzymatic processes.

However, what this fellow is describing is ludricrous, please attend to the details ... there's no way he can observe without a microbiology lab that the poster's boss has an imbalance in his blood, and it's ridiculous to think that by shining EM radiation at the guy is going to cure it.

Furthermore, the risk that this person could actually be injured by the radiation is there as well. And how does this person propose to cure ALL blood cells? What part of the body would be being radiated? How much time exactly would this portion of the body's capilaries take to expose ALL blood in the guy's body to this "curing" radiation?

What frequency is it at?

Patently ridiculous, what's this guy's name I'll report it to someone if he doesn't have the nerve.



posted on Aug, 21 2005 @ 11:41 AM
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Um, to be quite honest, although Quantum theory is one of the best constructed theories, as far as the very rational standard model, in school textbooks, goes, the new stuff is very exotic, and most of it has really no proof and is simply making educated guesses on various observed events.


I'd like to walk into his office and question this doctor.

Quantum physics might be the buzz term for new age ideas, but its over 75 years old, and quite frankly, most of the new stuff does not hold up under any real questioning, and is simply called a possibility.

The standard model and beyond of quantum physics do NOT relate with biology at all unless you go through chemistry first, and that can be a long road. Ask this man to explain exactly how his radio targets specific cells of a specific person and changes them without interfering with anything else, and not be blocked or have distance, or how it actually changes electron orbits. So much stuff they are leaving out. At least see what they say when you ask how his EM thing changes electron orbits, because if he doesnt know what they are, he didnt listen in high school chemistry, let alone any particle physics.

People who know what they are talking about will not stumble on some simple question. And it wouldnt hurt to peek at "the Standard model" text to give you a better understanding of the "accepted" quantum physics rather than this crazy stuff.

I do hate when idiots use big words and complex topics to fool the population, and even worse, no one objects, so terrible. Questions are the only defense against ignorance, and they should make sense.







 
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