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Weapons for Citizens?

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posted on Aug, 13 2005 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by CTID56092
Yet again Winchester with the mis-information. Why do you comment when you clearly don't know? - In UK we have similar self-defence law. You can hurt and kill people if the perceived threat warrants it.

Most legal gun owners will choose a bat etc over a gun - but if you can unlock the cabinet, load it etc and the threat warrants it (unlikely to be 100% certain!) you CAN shoot.

I wouldn't presume to comment on the fiearms laws in, say, Alabama as I don't know - when was the last time you were in UK?


That's some impressive research there, and you could be led to believe that you still have some right to self defence. But then you need to be reminded of stories like this one:

smallestminority.blogspot.com...

And if those self defence statutes are so rock solid, why is there an ongoing debate in Parliament about the introduction of a householder defence bill that would allow residents greater powers of self defence.

But you really shouldn't jump to conclusions of your own because I lived in Cheshire for about 37 years give or take does that count ?

I clearly recall the Tony Martin case, I think that some of these comments from UK residents pretty much sum up the subject of self defence in the UK.

www.guardian.co.uk...

I do however love this unforgettable quote:

"The last thing this country needs is to go down the route of America, where people are largely responsible for their own security."

There's the English mentality at work for you. Lord forbid you should be responsible for your own safety - let someone else look after me.

I'm sorry, but I can walk the streets of my hometown here in the US and feel safe, and not just because of the gun on my hip. In my own hometown in Cheshire, the yobs own the streets after dark.

For the record I was last back there exactly 3 weeks ago visiting friends and family - it's always a relief to get back on the plane to the US, I couldn't live in the UK again, it's a scary place these days.

[edit on 13-8-2005 by Winchester Ranger T]




posted on Aug, 13 2005 @ 11:08 PM
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Three Identical posts?

What gives?



posted on Aug, 13 2005 @ 11:11 PM
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Originally posted by Amuk
Three Identical posts?

What gives?


Over-active trigger finger



posted on Aug, 13 2005 @ 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by Winchester Ranger T

Originally posted by Amuk
Three Identical posts?

What gives?


Over-active trigger finger


20 minutes apart?



posted on Aug, 13 2005 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by Winchester Ranger T

Originally posted by Amuk
Three Identical posts?

What gives?


Over-active trigger finger


20 minutes apart?


Hey, I'm a careful shot



posted on Aug, 13 2005 @ 11:47 PM
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I dont think it is very easy to legally obtain a weapon here in NY. The only thing i could easily get was a 13" combat knife, that's all I have.



posted on Aug, 13 2005 @ 11:52 PM
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And that's one of the reasons that you have such high crime levels.

Note - I did say one of the reasons.

An armed society is a polite society.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by Winchester Ranger T


I'm sorry, but I can walk the streets of my hometown here in the US and feel safe, and not just because of the gun on my hip. In my own hometown in Cheshire, the yobs own the streets after dark.

For the record I was last back there exactly 3 weeks ago visiting friends and family - it's always a relief to get back on the plane to the US, I couldn't live in the UK again, it's a scary place these days.

[edit on 13-8-2005 by Winchester Ranger T]


If I'd known you were a fellow Cestrian I'd have been less spikey. Sorry thought you were yet another over-confident septic with lots of opinions.

The points is there is a self defence law in UK & many people (including Plod) don't quite get it - to defend life you can use 'reasonable' force but there's no right to defend property. It's all based on your perception of the threat


I'd agree about our youth especially if you've been to 'slow town' on a Saturday night - even the 'posh' bits are dangerous - too many knives

A bit of culling would get my vote but I'm not mainstream in UK



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 05:04 PM
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18th Birthday, Acton, Maine USA

I bought a Mosin-Nagant 7.62x54 military rifle and 20 rounds of ammunition for $130. I showed the man my drivers licence and a school ID. Sold.

I dont think Maine is well known for its gun crime either...



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 07:43 AM
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Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRoI tried getting a .22LR rifle in the US, I had my citizenship pending, and the FBI denied me, more than likely due to the fact I wasn't a citizen yet...although I was married, perhaps this is Iowa law but I dunno, I was pretty bummed, I probably would buy it withtout a question asked in Tennesse or something...


If you're a legal permanent resident of the US (Green Card holder) you can buy guns. If you're on a temporary visa, you can't.

Remember though that it is still legal to borrow a firearm under certain circumstances and you would have no restriction on buying ammunition.

An interesting question would be what would happen if you borrowed a handgun in Vermont and were stopped while carrying it concealed (Vermont is the only state that allows concealed carry without a permit !)



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 07:57 AM
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Winchester,

I obtained my permit to carry (and bought a gun) without having my greencard.

My legal status was "I-551 pending approval".

That seemed to be enough in Pennsylvania



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 12:33 PM
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Getting a CCW permit and buying guns are 2 different things. For example, you can quite easily get a driver's licence without a Green Card, and that is step #1 in getting a gun. Here in Arizona I obtained a CHL but had to send a photocopy of my Green Card to do it, I don't have to do that when buying guns - actually making the process of buying guns EASIER. Remember, there is no "one rule fits all" for state by state gun laws.

I'm not sure what would happen when you filled out the 4473 (correct number ?) and just claimed US citizenship when you didn't actually have it. I have a sneaky feeling that you'd get the gun as long as you have a driver's licence and a clean criminal record (quoting your SSN is listed as optional).

Interesting note - I will be testing the controls in this area myself later this month when I take my oath of US citizenship. I plan on dashing straight down to the local gun store and picking up either a Kimber Raptor II or a plain vanilla Glock 17. There is no way the INS could have notified any other agencies in time, I'll complete the documentation as a US citizen and see what happens.

My Certificate of Citizenship will however be clutched firmly in one hand just in case the cops show up.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 12:37 PM
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Didn't have a driver's license. Did have a SS card, though...and I had the stamp in my passport showing I-551 was pending approval.

I wouldn't have the confidence-sacs to claim citizenship if I didn't have it...I'm just too much of a wuss. And I'd get caught


But yes, some places obviously have much looser requirements than others; moreover though, I'd fully support a more uniform (and stricter...ah, let the flames begin...) screening method.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 12:47 PM
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Just to contradict myself, one thing is for sure, you will need a state issued ID to buy a gun from a gun store in any state, as this is deemed to satisfy the residency requirement.

Just to give you an example of the variations when it comes to CCW, in Maryland it's almost impossible to get a permit, in North Carolina you have to be a citizen, while in Vermont it's legal to carry concealed without any permit.

That's why I love this country so much, you can choose which state best fits your weather/taxation/firearms requirements and choose accordingly - ahhh Nirvana


PS - Guess why I chose Arizona. Warm weather all year, 4th lowest property tax out of the 50 states, and relaxed firearms laws (open carry is legal !).

[edit on 16-8-2005 by Winchester Ranger T]



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 01:41 PM
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"I couldn't live in the UK again, it's a scary place these days. "

Only for the very easily scared


I admit the armed police are a bit disconcerting and I trust they won't be around for too long, apart from that what's to be scared of, drizzle?



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by Wembley
apart from that what's to be scared of, drizzle?


The food and the teeth that chew it.



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