It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by Jamuhn
Should evolution change or should we change our entire perspective upon the grandness and infiniteness of Science?
Originally posted by Jamuhn
But, what happens when a theory is content to say that there is no order that can be found, how does this change our view about the limits to science? I for one believe that there is no limit to science.
In the precept of random mutation, we are to understand that mutations occur for no apparent reason. Is it perhaps a simple flaw in the mechanics of life?
The theory of random mutation also helps to establish the theory that evolution is a nondirectional process.
I also find this sort of odd since the evolutionary theory also goes on to say that natural selection guides the process.
How are we to come to terms with a theory that undermines the belief in Science as a way to come to knowledge of an orderly universe?
Should evolution change or should we change our entire perspective upon the grandness and infiniteness of Science?
Originally posted by Jamuhn
In the field of science, we have always been proud that we are able to gain any knowledge at all of the physical world. We have been able to do this because we realized that the universe is ordered, and that we are able to discover this order...
...How are we to come to terms with a theory that undermines the belief in Science as a way to come to knowledge of an orderly universe?
Originally posted by RANT
And natural selection is not a "guiding" force as one may describe the hand of God. That's play at semantics.
What is your problem with evolution exactly? Are you saying that the random mutations don't occur?
Boole, George
An Investigation of the Law of Thought
Probability is expectation founded upon partial knowledge. A perfect acquaintance with all the circumstances affecting the occurrence of an event would change expectation into certainty, and leave neither room nor demand for a theory of probabilities.
www.mathcs.carleton.edu...
Some philosophers have argued that there is no randomness in the universe, only unpredictability. Others find the distinction meaningless.
Originally posted by Al Davison
things can appear to be without order (or, in other words, not linear) but can actually have solid mathmatical equations behind them that are easily explainable.
Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
I'm of the opinion that the distinction is meaningless. However if we called the mutations that occur in DNA "unpredictable" instead of "random" would that help?
Originally posted by Jamuhn
I think that these mutations are not random, but rather predictable....not unpredictable.
As well, I think that evolution is a directional process.
Originally posted by Jamuhn
Well, this thread so far has been surprisingly civile. I appreciate that.
Ok, it seems there are a few main hang-ups relating to this topic...
1. That natural selection guides evolution.
Favorable mutations are naturally selected as superior. If a mutated organism survives and reproduces, it is considered fit. Although, even if it hasn't mutated, it will still be considered fit. But, environment is a factor that benefits the fitness of the adapted organisms, and ones that are adapted better are more fit. Natural selection can be said to guide evolution because the best suited traits for that environment are most likely to get passed through the genetic line. It is natural selection that essentially determines which traits are the best suited. Thus, an organism evolves as these adapted traits are passed on.
Originally posted by Jamuhn
2. That randomness exists.
It is not randomness that exists, but rather probability that does. When one says to produce a random card from a deck of cards, we are able to calculate the probability of a certain card being pulled.
And, on the matter of probability, I like this quote
Boole, George
An Investigation of the Law of Thought
Probability is expectation founded upon partial knowledge. A perfect acquaintance with all the circumstances affecting the occurrence of an event would change expectation into certainty, and leave neither room nor demand for a theory of probabilities.
www.mathcs.carleton.edu...
Originally posted by Jamuhn
3. That people, particularly scientists, don't believe the universe is ordered.
I find this somewhat odd, seeing that without order, we would nothing but a heap of facts. But, we are able to connect seemingly unrelated facts, such as time, distance, and velocity to arrive at simple equations. We are able to predict events in nature by virtue of the universe having order. If the universe were not ordered than there would be no reason or ability to experiment, such as we see with the evolutionary theory. There are obviously parts of evolutionary theory that are ordered, such as microevolution and natural selection, but even young earth creationists believe in this. Put simply, science would not even exist if the universe were not ordered.
Originally posted by Jamuhn
4. No-one has addressed the theory in evolution that it is a non-directional process.
Well, the theory of irreducible complexity (based on probability) seems to address the theory of a non-directional process. Non-directional evolution is an oxymoron considering that natural selection directs us to better adapt to our environment.