Forum for philosophy!

Originally posted by blue_sky_9
it is the logical fact that nothing is after death... when you think about it it could be comforting...

Once you accept it, annihilation provides a greater comfort level than the belief in life after death. The reason for this is that those who claim there is life after death doubt this to be true deep down. That doubt causes anxiety since they have never gone through the process of accepting death as final.

On the other hand, if you do accept death as final, the alternative (some form of life after death) is not frightening. Counterintuitively, from my own experience, it is less painfull to lose a loved one if you accept death as final than if you don't. I have lost loved ones under both perspectives.

nor is there evidents to disproven life after death or to proven in it. Nor can you spam prove with a dout that there is no God. God and Jesus are out there. And you can never prove that they are not out there. Besides what would ya do if God started proving he was here. All you want to say is God is not here because there is no proof. But there is proof, just not the proof your looking for. God be with ya and hope he changes your mind.

i have thought long on this subject...

my thoughs are rather divided at the moment. iam looking at myself in a different way to get another point of view; ie, i looked at the human body as a machince; which it is, and compared it to another machince namly, a hammer. what happens when a hammer head gets divided from the handle? is it still a hammer? the answer is no, as its a hammer head and handle...!
so applieing this to the human, mind separated from the body, no longer a human... but wait! a dead human is still a human!

lets say i throw my hammer into a pit. over time, the hammer rots away, the atoms leaving. the atoms do not get destroyed. therefore, the hammer no longer exists, but the atoms still exist; in a way the hammer exists.

lets do the same to me. i rot away, by my atoms still exist. do i exist? no.
but, the esensense of what i was still exists.

see why iam divided???!

Originally posted by slymattb
nor is there evidents to disproven life after death or to proven in it. Nor can you spam prove with a dout that there is no God.

Except for trivial cases, you can't prove a negative. Your challenge is a pathetic attempt to shift the burdon of proof from yourself to me.

Regarding life after death, there is evidence of its nonexistence in that consciousness stems from the brain. Even while alive there are times when you have no consciousness. If some supernatural soul were the source of consciousness, then consciousness would never cease. Of course, I fully expect your response will be something to the effect of "nuh uh, because its magic".

Originally posted by slymattb
God and Jesus are out there.

No they're not.

Originally posted by slymattb
And you can never prove that they are not out there.

Why is it important to you that I can't prove it? You do realize that if they don't exist, then it is impossible to prove they don't exist don't you? My inability to prove their nonexistence is completely consistent with the premise that they don't exist.

Originally posted by slymattb
Besides what would ya do if God started proving he was here.

I'd believe in him of course.

Originally posted by slymattb
God be with ya and hope he changes your mind.

I share a similar wish of good will toward you, that the fog of faith that clouds your mind may be lifted.

Originally posted by spamandham
Except for trivial cases, you can't prove a negative. Your challenge is a pathetic attempt to shift the burdon of proof from yourself to me.

[/quote] I really dont care who has the burdon of proof. Its only you who wants evidents to show God is Alive. Besides you will never have direct evidents sents God is in heaven, what makes you think(if God is alive) that he would leave evidents for everyone to see.

Regarding life after death, there is evidence of its nonexistence in that consciousness stems from the brain. Even while alive there are times when you have no consciousness. If some supernatural soul were the source of consciousness, then consciousness would never cease. Of course, I fully expect your response will be something to the effect of "nuh uh, because its magic".

huh uh NO its not magic. by your own says you said you can have no consciousness, so where does it go?? We both know that the brain or mind can not live with the heart, both heart and mind(brain) are part's of the soul. And just because consciousness comes from the mind, in no way show's evidents that there is no life after death.

No they're not.

Prove it

Why is it important to you that I can't prove it? You do realize that if they don't exist, then it is impossible to prove they don't exist don't you? My inability to prove their nonexistence is completely consistent with the premise that they don't exist.

And the fact that God only once showed a human his body, his back side anyway to moses. Never has God came to earth, maybe his power did. He came in the form of a burning bush. Some even claim they have that bush that was burning with God in it. But my point is this, if the bible is right, and we can only find God by faith, what make you think I can prove he's alive. (Show me a sign, show me a sign, none can be given.) Some where in the bible thats a scripture. So do you really think God would let me prove to you he's alive???

I'd believe in him of course.

The signs he has given is his son, the bread of life.

[edit on 28-8-2005 by slymattb]

Originally posted by slymattb
huh uh NO its not magic.

There's no distinction except the label.

Originally posted by slymattb
by your own says you said you can have no consciousness, so where does it go??

It ceases to exist - the same thing that happens when you die.

Originally posted by slymattb
And just because consciousness comes from the mind, in no way show's evidents that there is no life after death.

Of course it's evidence. If consciousness comes from the brain, then when the brain dies, so does consciousness. This isn't very complicated, you just don't like it.

Originally posted by slymattb
But my point is this, if the bible is right, and we can only find God by faith, what make you think I can prove he's alive.

The Bible isn't true. It's a book of fiction. Charlattans tell you to have faith because they know that if you accept that faith, you are gullible and they can easily take advantage of you.

Originally posted by slymattb
So do you really think God would let me prove to you he's alive???

Of course he would. He's supposedly a rational and honest being. A rational and honest being would not demand faith from another rational being.

calm guys!

the question of whether god exists or not is sideline to the question that if he does exist-in what form?

Originally posted by blue_sky_9
calm guys!

the question of whether god exists or not is sideline to the question that if he does exist-in what form?

The sub-discussion was about consciousness and souls, not so much about the existence of god(s). This seems relevant to your question.

what are your belives spam?

Originally posted by blue_sky_9
what are your belives spam?

I see no credible evidence of anything supernatural, and have yet to find anyone who can even define what 'supernatural' means in a consistent way. Pushed far enough, there is no distinction between "supernatural" and "nothing", as the supernatural can only be defined in terms of what it is not.

Those who defend it resort to analogies because of this problem. The concept of a soul is not a concept at all as it suffers from this same problem of a contradictory definition.

Since there is no credible evidence of gods or souls, and the concepts can not even be defined, they are absurdities. It's clearly just wishful thinking. No-one wants to die, yet it is unavoidable, so we latch onto the idea that life somehow magically continues after we die, which requires the concept of a soul.

so you belive there is nothing?

we live life and thats it?

damn!

I can understand spam's point of view absolutely.

The question of "you live life and that's it?! Damn!" seems to place more importance on what happens after death, than what happens during life.

Isn't life about living the best you can?

If it is...then at the very least, it's of equal importance to what may or may not happen after death.

i can now see spams point of view...

there is very little evidence that life after death compared with something like the evidence that an apple exists.

then again, does an apple exist?
for
i can see it
i can taste it
i can touch it
i can smell it
i can hear it thud when it hits the ground

agaist
the apple may not exist because my senses do not exist; therefore i do not exist; with means that the apple does not exist.

its like thought.
iam thinking
i cant hear my thoughts
i cant't taste them
i cant see them
i can't feel them

how do i know that my thoughts exist? i cannot percive them, you cannot pecive them...
so the "i think therefore iam" fulls apart because according to my senses, thought does not exist.
therefore i dont exist
therefore my life does not exist,
and to conclude, if my life does not exist, my death does not.

but that begs the question that if the world around me does not exist, then why is i here? why am i here?
what is the meaning of life, and therefore the meaning of death?

Originally posted by blue_sky_9
so you belive there is nothing?

There is the present, and there is life.

Originally posted by blue_sky_9
we live life and thats it?

All indications are that death is permanent. However, neither you nor I will ever actually be dead, because you cease to exist at death, just like you did not exist prior to the womb.

Originally posted by blue_sky_9
how do i know that my thoughts exist? i cannot percive them, you cannot pecive them...

You can perceive your thoughts. If you couldn't, you would not know you had them.

Originally posted by blue_sky_9
what is the meaning of life, and therefore the meaning of death?

Why must life/death have external meaning?

Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by blue_sky_9
how do i know that my thoughts exist? i cannot percive them, you cannot pecive them...

You can perceive your thoughts. If you couldn't, you would not know you had them.

perciveance is a combination of ones senses. but i cannot percive my thoughts. so what sense do i use to know they exist?

Originally posted by blue_sky_9
perciveance is a combination of ones senses. but i cannot percive my thoughts. so what sense do i use to know they exist?

How do you know you have any if you can not perceive them?

Your thoughts and self awareness are one in the same. The 5 senses are no different from this. The physical sensors merely send signals to the brain which then turns the signals into perception. Your thoughts do the exact same thing, and trigger the same responses.

Originally posted by spamandham
How do you know you have any if you can not perceive them?

-which is exactly my point! i just know that they exist... i suppose this is the same as life after death-i just know it exists.

Originally posted by blue_sky_9

Originally posted by spamandham
How do you know you have any if you can not perceive them?

-which is exactly my point! i just know that they exist... i suppose this is the same as life after death-i just know it exists.

You only believe in life after death because you've been told about it. Are you saying that you only know you have thoughts because someone told you?

If so, rather than accepting both at face value, why do you not reject both?

[edit on 4-9-2005 by spamandham]

someone did not tell me that my thoughts exist-that would be absurd.

i know they exist, without perciving them! why cant it be the same with life after death?