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Small Gold Flat Chips Extracted From Throat - Need Help

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posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 02:58 AM
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Helping Hands

I had been holding off on reading this thread, but tonight seemed about right. So I started on Page 1 and worked my way all the way through to Page 20.

A technique I have found helpful in cases like these is to focus on Need Help's posts, and I pretty much skimmed over the rest. The reason for doing this is to get a clear understanding of the flow of Need Help's narrative.

In this case, I went so far as to copy and paste much of what Need Help posted into a word processor as quotes. Even with much editorial license and not copying everything, the file is over 8000 words long.

There's a lot of data here.

Having followed the whole thing from start to finish in a single session, however, has -- I think -- given me a pretty good idea of what is going on, although like any self-respecting skeptic, I reserve final judgment for a time when more evidence becomes available.

Needful Things

With all this reading fresh in my mind, I find myself left with many puzzling questions, which I will list here in no particular order. Some of these questions may well have been asked before, but were either not answered or not answered in a way that satisfies my curiosity.

I don't wish to come across as deriding Need Help (NH) in any way, shape or form. At this point, I am content to take her at face value, and recognize that all of the questions I am left with can have honest, non-sinister answers.

With that in mind, I find myself pondering the following:

1. NH claims to have come here to get help identifying a small metallic object which came from her girlfriend's throat. Many plausible explanations were suggested which NH dismissed, often for specious reasons. Why?

2. Nothing in NH's story reasonably suggests an extraterrestrial origin for the “chip” (see below regarding the “not from this world” anecdote). The human throat is a terrestrial origin, and how the “chip” got there is claimed to be unknown. NH's girlfriend's anecdotes could be interpreted as abductions, but are far from being even definitive enough for speculation. Yet NH keeps drifting back to a possible extraterrestrial origin. Why?

3. The object strongly resembles something which may be associated with modern electronic manufacturing, and the very word “chip” used in this context suggests that. NH claims to have experience with high-end electronic manufacturing ($70,000 circuit boards are very high-end). Yet she repeatedly waves off suggestions that this object could be related to earthly electronics fabrication, while simultaneously implying it may be an alien chip. Why?

4. While I can attribute it to technical limits of the camera, we never really get a close enough view of the object in any picture to make out fine detail. All of the pictures are at a scale and resolution which leaves many questions about this object unanswerable with the photos provided. Why?

5. NH's girlfriend is a doctor. She has access to colleagues she can presumably trust who specialize in medicine. As a doctor, she has credibility. She claims the item came from her throat. Why can't she simply take the object to trusted friends at work and have them examine it without offering speculation about what it is?

6. NH is admirably tolerant of skepticism until just after the reported visit to Dr. Luciano's office. I was particularly struck by the change in tone when she asked, “Don't you still have the taste of crow pie in your mouth? Where's the dunce cap Quiet Soul?” Yes, I know QS came back with some strong allegations, but why the change in NH?

7. “I just got an email from Gevaerd saying that Luciano just wrote him and said that we in fact did go to the meeting and that Luciano is very interested in the chip. Gevaerd said that it may be premature to think, but that we may be on to one of the hugest cases in Ufology.” If it may be premature, why say this?

8. Regarding NH's girlfriend's mother: 'What I do know is that when the mother of the two sisters had the piece in 2002 analyzed, from what I gather, they basically took it, said it was not from this planet, and didn't give it back and the family didn't hear anything back.' That is a rather unusual lab result. Am I the only one who finds it odd that this doesn't get any followup?

9. If one of my kids coughed up something that a lab said was “not from this world”, I wouldn't blow that off. Why did the lab keep it? And if their reasons were nefarious, why would they say it was “not from this planet”? What kind of lab in Brazil is qualified to make such an assessment? How would they even know? If this lab exists, it exists somewhere, and can be investigated. Can we get more details on this extremely vital piece of information?

10. “Please do NOT write to Gevaerd. Please just follow the results on his website and if you need help with Portuguese I will help you. His website is: www.ufo.com.br...”. Why is NH speaking on behalf of Gevaerd on this, and why discourage communication? We can posit concerns about being bombarded with emails, but in fact very few ATSers are likely to try to contact Gevaerd directly. Why the pointer to the website (which offers many things for sale) for this?

11. If the goal has shifted from identifying the object to spreading the truth about it, then why the primadonna routine? Is personal pride and ego more important than the truth? Why the dangling of bait? Why the dramatic change in tone? Is it more important that the world know about this or that NH's feelings not be hurt?

12. If NH desires anonymity, why give the name “Jessica” from the very first post?

Helpful Hints

There are more questions, but the ones above trouble me most. The original foundation of the story has some logical inconsistencies which, if left unaddressed, lead to a giant house of cards.

Now we have suggestions that we're “gonna hear about it in the media sooooon”. This claim is being posted on a website with over 43,000 registered members (and a lot more unregistered visitors than that).

In a very real sense, we are part of “the media” now. We're asking questions, but we're not getting a lot of answers, and much of what we're getting has an air of cognitive dissonance.

I am reminded of a famous case last month. The pattern has an eerie familiarity to it. I feel it and others feel it. There are indications here which cannot be ignored by a reasonable skeptic.

Is the true purpose of this thread to identify the object in question, or to gain publicity? I'm not sure, but at this stage in the game, it seems to be more the latter than the former.

Especially at first, NH, did not come off as deceitful. However, over the course of the thread, her tone has shifted to one of increasing guile -- or something along those lines -- and the posts as of two days ago indicate a dramatic turn that leaves me feeling uneasy about what is going on here.

I agree with jra that there is no need to call this a hoax just yet. Likewise, I see no reason whatsoever to assume this is not a hoax, either. I don't see enough evidence either way -- yet.

This is a case where time will tell, and like the vast majority of people who have read this thread, I am willing to watch, wait and withhold judgment for now. It will not be long before a much clearer picture of what is going on here emerges.

Meanwhile, NH could do much good to address some of my questions if she wishes. Or not.

I am not in a position to make such demands of any member, and leave such decisions with her where they belong.




posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 06:31 AM
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Originally posted by Majic

4. While I can attribute it to technical limits of the camera, we never really get a close enough view of the object in any picture to make out fine detail. All of the pictures are at a scale and resolution which leaves many questions about this object unanswerable with the photos provided. Why?


I think you answered your own question. However she did take some pretty good pictures!






10. “Please do NOT write to Gevaerd. Please just follow the results on his website and if you need help with Portuguese I will help you. His website is: www.ufo.com.br...”. Why is NH speaking on behalf of Gevaerd on this, and why discourage communication? We can posit concerns about being bombarded with emails, but in fact very few ATSers are likely to try to contact Gevaerd directly. Why the pointer to the website (which offers many things for sale) for this?



I believe she is speaking for herself , not for Gevaerd. QuietSoul has already e-mailed Gevaerd, Need Help thought that was embarrassing.

A. J. Gevaerd is the Editor of Brazil's UFO Magazine www.ufo.com.br...

That's why she gave you the pointer. ATS has stuff for sale too.

And I might add that if anyone would expose something as the Hoax it is , that would be A. J. Gevaerd.
He has exposed many UFO hoaxes in Brazil, he was hand picked by J. Allen Hynek to represent CUFOS in Brazil for god sakes!



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 06:42 AM
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I have been reading this thread from its beginning and I must say that the Mods’ behavior reminded me a lot about the John Lear treatment in this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Of course in the end SO made right, and provided ATS members with a good solution. (John Lear as guess speaker) This case might be different, and the chip will in all probability turn out to be nothing at all. But what if is it real? Will the Mod have to apologize again?

I stood by and waited for more results before posting anything. And reserved judgment until all the results came in before calling hoax (or not), of course most of the Mods and senior members have more experience than me in spotting hoaxes. But now we have to go somewhere else to get updates, sad.

Needhelp if you are seeking answers this board in definitely the place to get it, for one it gets a lot more hits, and therefore increases your chances of reaching someone with the knowledge you are seeking.



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 07:23 AM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
reminded me a lot about the John Lear treatment in this thread:


If you recall, that episode ended with him backing away from all his claims.

I'm fully aware there are fantastic things happening that few of us know about, and that should be discussed in the interest of exposure, discovery, and learning. A great deal of this has happened on ATS, and will still happen in the future.

Regardless of the actual authenticity of the claims in this thread, the method of revealing these claims has caused pause in those of us with extensive experience in these matters (and there are several on staff). We've never had any type of potentially legitimate discovery or found secret occur in this manner before. And more important, every hoax we've encountered has happened this way before.

The pattern is all too familiar, a new member begins a fantastic story, and continues to only post in the thread about their story. The author of this thread has remained active only in this particular thread. In the past, this has been an indication of a person's attempt to continue to pump the story.

Now this certainly could be an exception to our experience in these matters, and it would be the first. But you must understand that when we see something that looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, smells like a duck, and tastes like a duck... we tend to think it's a duck.

I don't think it's any accident that ATS started become widely popular as we slowly leaned more and more toward a critical analysis of fantastic claims. It's the "personality" of ATS, and it's an important one.

And more important, do we really hope that these gold chips have been placed in this person through sinister plots? My gosh, that is indeed a terrible hope for our believing members to have. In the scheme of things, it would be much, much better for this person if there was some honest accident of non-sinister explanation (accidental food contamination?).

By using the sieve of reality and critical thinking, the mundane passes through and the fantastic remains... this should be our process and goal.



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 10:02 AM
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I want to thank the ATS crew for this website. No, no one has pushed me into saying this. I don't regret using this site at all as I was given some good advice and I think this thread has served as a necessary constituent and feat in my research.



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 01:40 PM
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My response to Majic.


Originally posted by Majic
1. NH claims to have come here to get help identifying a small metallic object which came from her girlfriend's throat. Many plausible explanations were suggested which NH dismissed, often for specious reasons. Why?


I dismissed them aswell. They were illogical.. "you ate a circuit board?", "you've been drinking goldshlager?", "maybe your body is producing these". Just rediculous.



2. Nothing in NH's story reasonably suggests an extraterrestrial origin for the “chip” ...(fast forward).. Yet NH keeps drifting back to a possible extraterrestrial origin. Why?


Yes the chip doesn't have "alien" written all over it. Similarly, Need Help never argued that her partner had been abducted. Yet, through logical deducation, we arrive at the conclusion that it may be ET. If you back track through the thread you may see a list of my reasons for this.


She repeatedly waves off suggestions that this object could be related to earthly electronics fabrication, while simultaneously implying it may be an alien chip. Why?


Maybe because in all her experience she's never seen a component like this.


All of the pictures are at a scale and resolution which leaves many questions about this object unanswerable with the photos provided. Why?


If my reading is correct... Close up photo's are being taken by the lab, and I assume they will be released soon. Previously, NH didn't have the equipment to do this.


5. NH's girlfriend is a doctor. She has access to colleagues she can presumably trust who specialize in medicine. As a doctor, she has credibility. She claims the item came from her throat. Why can't she simply take the object to trusted friends at work and have them examine it without offering speculation about what it is?


She probably doesn't get that much freedom at work. It's technically not official work.. and there may be employee rules against using the equipment for personal matters.


Yes, I know QS came back with some strong allegations, but why the change in NH?


Maybe since Gevaerd became excited with the case, instead of calling her crazy, NH now doesn't feel she needs to hear some guys on the internet telling her she's a hoax.


Greatest case in ufology.. if it may be premature, why say this?


Excitement.. human nature.


'They basically took it, said it was not from this planet, and didn't give it back and the family didn't hear anything back.' That is a rather unusual lab result. Am I the only one who finds it odd that this doesn't get any followup?


It's very odd, I'll admit. But this did happen in Brazil.


And if their reasons were nefarious, why would they say it was “not from this planet”? What kind of lab in Brazil is qualified to make such an assessment? How would they even know? If this lab exists, it exists somewhere, and can be investigated.


Beats me. Investigating that lab may be interesting.


Why is NH speaking on behalf of Gevaerd on this, and why discourage communication?


NH probably doesn't want to annoy Gervaerd, with mass emails from this site.


If the goal has shifted from identifying the object to spreading the truth about it, then why the primadonna routine? Is personal pride and ego more important than the truth? Why the dangling of bait? Why the dramatic change in tone? Is it more important that the world know about this or that NH's feelings not be hurt?


I'm not sure what you're trying to say. But surely there is a right time for the world to know, and maybe, just maybe, that is after the tests?



If NH desires anonymity, why give the name “Jessica” from the very first post?


Poor question. Jessica is a very common name, and I don't see how giving a first name is compromising anonymity.


Steve



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 04:08 PM
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The Collaborative Edge


Originally posted by Need Help
I want to thank the ATS crew for this website. No, no one has pushed me into saying this. I don't regret using this site at all as I was given some good advice and I think this thread has served as a necessary constituent and feat in my research.

To chime in, I want to make it as clear as I can that my philosophy of skepticism precludes any sort of moral judgment of you or anyone else. Things are never as they seem, especially on the Internet.

I honestly don't know what to make of all this, other than the fact that it is an intriguing mystery, and that at the very least it is entertaining to observe and participate in.

As time passes, I'm sure things will become clearer to everyone, and lest anyone misunderstand my feelings about all this, I sincerely hope that though a specific set of circumstances brought you to ATS, it won't be the only thing that keeps you here.

Or as I like to say: "Come for the coffee, stay for the pie."


Sincerely (if not succinctly) speaking,

Majic



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Regardless of the actual authenticity of the claims in this thread, the method of revealing these claims has caused pause in those of us with extensive experience in these matters (and there are several on staff). We've never had any type of potentially legitimate discovery or found secret occur in this manner before. And more important, every hoax we've encountered has happened this way before.

The pattern is all too familiar, a new member begins a fantastic story, and continues to only post in the thread about their story. The author of this thread has remained active only in this particular thread. In the past, this has been an indication of a person's attempt to continue to pump the story.

Now this certainly could be an exception to our experience in these matters, and it would be the first. But you must understand that when we see something that looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, smells like a duck, and tastes like a duck... we tend to think it's a duck.



After 20 days you say Need Help is pumping this thread !

She turned the object over to an Internationally respected Ufologist! Just as she was advised to do . Dr. Richard Leir has been contacted about this object, and Dr. Darrel Sims was practically begging to get his hands on it!

Now that it is in the hands of respected Ufologists, you want say this smells like a duck!

The Fact that A. J. Gevaerd is even involved makes this thread very interesting. It seems that he and his colleague don't seem to think that Jessica and her G/F are pulling one over on them! Could that be because she hasn't made any claims about it?

She hasn't claimed it was an Alien Implant , only that she doesn't know what it is.

Therefore it is a mystery until we know what it is. This is however the Aliens and UFO Board , and A.J. Gevaerd is an internationally respected Ufologists that is gong to be testing the object, so it is not unreasonable for us to entertain the possibility.

Why not reserve judgement until the tests are done on this thing?

We are already at that point now.





And more important, do we really hope that these gold chips have been placed in this person through sinister plots? My gosh, that is indeed a terrible hope for our believing members to have. In the scheme of things, it would be much, much better for this person if there was some honest accident of non-sinister explanation (accidental food contamination?).



You think. Need Help has been saying just that throughout this thread! Why don't you know that?




[edit on 31-8-2005 by lost_shaman]



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 12:53 AM
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So now we know what you guys are doing in those secret Deny Ignorance Steering Committee meetings!

The stale smell of the Backroom Cigar Smoke is lingering.

You all know this doesn't look good.

lost_shaman



[edit on 1-9-2005 by lost_shaman]



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 09:57 AM
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There was an update on her blog yesterday. It's quite interesting as well. I searched the name that was given, and instead of Richard I found Roger Leir, ofcourse it's just a common typo, but what Leir has to say is intriguing.

"Leir also discussed his work removing alien implants, which he has done with 12 different patients. They "certainly represent a technology that is not terrestrial," he said of the small objects he has extracted. They typically show no "portal of entry" and often have electromagnetic properties, he noted."

I'm boning up on him at this very moment.

Edit: Hate to edit, but this guy seems hardcore. I found a recent article on him and it was quite an interesting read. www.newsregister.com...

Another 'big shot' has entered the game and all is going well.

[edit on 1-9-2005 by Drexon]



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by Need Help
Sigh.....
Looks like people are afraid to know the truth.





But the problem we have is that you don't know the truth either, infact no one does. Hence why you came here, why you offered this up for discussion in a bid to find out what it was. You're taking the time and effort of getting a scientific opinion, you're talking with UFO researchers and you're still posting here - all indicate you are following the natural path of curiousity of seeking the truth and yet when anyone actually gives an opinion (we're all allowed here afterall, within reason) you tell them flat out that they are wrong and almost scoff at their supposed ignorance to this "truth" you push upon them.

You claim to seek and yet you offer more guidance of your own "problem" - so by the quoted statement alone, even after reading the entire thread, I simply do not believe you.












[edit on 3-9-2005 by timb3r]



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by timb3r

Originally posted by Need Help
Sigh.....
Looks like people are afraid to know the truth.


But the problem we have is that you don't know the truth either, infact no one does... and yet when anyone actually gives an opinion (we're all allowed here afterall, within reason) you tell them flat out that they are wrong and almost scoff at their supposed ignorance to this "truth" you push upon them.



Actually, you have neglected at least one aspect where she does possess absolute knowledge neither you nor myself nor anyone else here is privy to... whether or not she is being truthful. Let us not convolute fact with belief. She believes the object is most likely extraterrestrial in nature. Never once in these 21 pages have I seen her claim this to be absolute fact. The only fact, i.e., absolute truth she claims is that it all happened as she described, and this is a nugget of absolute truth she possesses which you or I do not.



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 11:53 AM
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From interview with Dr. Leir: [linked above]



Two of Leir's patients were interviewed by a psychologist both before and after implant removal surgery. Using almost the same words, both reported a newfound sense of freedom once the object was removed.

So what are these implants?

Clearly, they were created using nannotechnology, Leir said. They are extremely tiny recording transmission devices.




Research in Brazil

In recent years, Lear has served as a technical consultant to the TV series "The X-Files" and has appeared on numerous TV specials. While traveling the world speaking about implants, he has been intrigued by UFO reports in every country.

During a visit to Brazil, he heard about a Roswell-like incident that took place in 1996. About 80 witnesses so far have come forward with stories about a UFO crash and cover-up near a small agricultural town, he said.

Leir talked with some of the witnesses, including an orthopedic surgeon who said he was recruited to repair an alien's fractured limb. "We could talk in medical language with no barriers," he said, although he depended on a Portuguese translator as well.

As a result of his research, he recently authored a new book, "UFO Crash in Brazil." It joins his first book, "The Aliens and the Scalpel: Scientific Proof of Extraterrestrial Implants in Humans."

Isn't this coughing woman supposed to be latin in ethnicity, or did I misread the original post. [It's a long thread, so forgive me...]

Perhaps these little gold things are designed to be constructed within human tissue. The construction is done by tiny nanites who extract the gold from the individual's bloodstream, which gold is somehow supplied through their diet [
...I am winging it here...]. Together, these little gold pieces make the whole body into some kind of transmitter. Eh?

As each little gold piece is built, it is deposited into the subject's tissue, or perhaps coughed up, and otherwise evacuated from the body. I have to wonder about gold pieces coming of other holes also, [again, forgive me] if I am to think scientifically.


[edit on 3-9-2005 by smallpeeps]



posted on Sep, 5 2005 @ 01:16 AM
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For those still following this... There's some close-up pics of the chip on the Blog...



posted on Sep, 5 2005 @ 05:48 AM
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Whoa, that doesn't look perfect at all. If there's any characteristic the human possesses it's the obsession with perfect forms. This has bends and nooks everywhere, and it's not even a flat surface. Interesting indeed. Although I don't see any 'circuitry' on the backside.. looks like it went through some ruffing. :/



posted on Sep, 5 2005 @ 07:22 AM
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Originally posted by sdrumrunner
Never once in these 21 pages have I seen her claim this to be absolute fact


Point noted.




posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 09:44 AM
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What is the present blog link? The original is still down.

maybe someone could include it in their signiture, so we don't have to explore all 20 sonething pages to find the new link? (perhaps Need help, could give help here)



posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 10:02 AM
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posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 06:36 AM
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Wow. They're gonna hit it with the single most powerful microscope on earth now it seems, an electron microscope.
That'll give us some "detailed" images, I mean, I'd like to see someone complain about the resolution on those.



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 07:40 AM
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so what does this have to do with aliens or ufos?



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