This topic is in the Aircraft Projects discussion forum.  (rss)


Vietnam air war! (NEW INFO!!! SEEKING FOR THE TRUHT!!!)


<<  1    2    3  >>



reply posted on 7-9-2003 @ 07:45 PM by FULCRUM


external image
USAF "missiles only" F-4 with 5 kill markings on it. (From the Nam)

Here are more "aces" lists:

NVAF:
users.accesscomm.ca...

PLAAF:
users.accesscomm.ca...

US:
users.accesscomm.ca...

USSR:
users.accesscomm.ca...

I just wonder where are the North Korean pilots?
US has allways claimed that Koreans flew for NVAF, and now Koreans have admitted that they did send some 800 pilots to Vietnam and that USSR provited the "mounts" MiG-21s cost free..

Chinese are involded cause US flew spy mission to China, so they shot drones, spy planes and also some fighters down.

And some of the USSR:s instructors that were in Vietnam also did fly missions with some success too.

Here is link to the NK pilots in NVAF:
edition.cnn.com...


Lee Chul Soo, a North Korean air force captain who defected to South Korea in 1998, said more than 800 North Korean pilots flew Soviet-provided MiG jets to help North Vietnamese troops fight U.S. forces.


So there you have it. Enjoy!



reply to this post:   copyright & usage 


reply posted on 8-9-2003 @ 02:41 AM by FULCRUM

Summary of USAF Aircraft Lost in the Vietnam War..

Here it is:

US aircraft loses in SEA 1/2 (1,67mb)

US aircraft loses in SEA 2/2 (1.02mb)

Major parts of a 90 page US declassified (1983?) report.

But i still belive that many kills "given" to AAA were infact caused by SAM:s or MiG:s

Use the "save as" function when viewing these, thanks.

And again couple of nice photos:
external image
NVAF MiG-21PF-V or PFM. (date and place unknown, orginal caption says: MiG:s are ready for next sortie.)

external image
Another guncamera shot of NVAF MiG-17.
(place, date and shooter unknown, but most propably taken by US jet, and the MiG looks like it has taken some hits.)

Next two photos have nothing to do with any "Indochina wars".
external image
NVAF Ground crew arming SU-22(s) with a unknown missille, at unknown base and time.

(tell me what missile this is if somebody knows? My guess is that it is somekind of anti-ship missile,
or air launched/towed target? As only missile that i found that even looked like this one was AS-6 "Kingfish"
and it is much too large/heavy for SU-22.)

external image
SU-27s of NVAF Vietnam has at least 10 single- and 2 two-seaters.

I hope that you will appreciate my efforts. Enjoy!

[Edited on 8-9-2003 by FULCRUM]



reply to this post:   copyright & usage 


reply posted on 8-9-2003 @ 08:38 PM by Seekerof


Nicely done Uni.....
Most informative though a little skewed at times but hey....we are all entitled to 'skew' a bit, eh?
Great job.

regards
seekerof



reply to this post:   copyright & usage 


reply posted on 8-9-2003 @ 08:52 PM by FULCRUM


Yeah, and really dont think that i have stolen nothing from anyone.. I do not ask money from people that have looked at this..

I have just collected the best material around to a one place.

As this info is hard to come by, and then when you find it on the other sites it is mix of bad pics and good info.. or the other way around.

And here are the good info and good/rare pics in one place.

And im am still looking.. next time i will post somekind of summary of aircart lost by US and NVA, plus couple of good pics if i can find them..

*note*

As i see this, none of this information belongs not to any person/nation but is infact property of all those that fought and died in that war..

I am doing a favor for US / Vietnamese veterans alike.

[Edited on 9-9-2003 by FULCRUM]



reply to this post:   copyright & usage 


reply posted on 8-9-2003 @ 09:32 PM by FULCRUM

Air Combat With China (during Vietnam war..)


During the execution of Rolling Thunder, there were a number of clashes between US and Chinese aircraft over the South China Sea. The Chinese played a key role in NVAF fighter operations, and in addition to providing training and aircraft, they allowed the North Vietnamese to intercept US aircraft directly from their own bases during the intense air battles of mid-1967. American intelligence had, by that stage, ascertained that Chinese early warning radars (including those on the island of Hainan) were 'netted in' to North Vietnamese air defense system. China set up massive AAA defenses in North Vietnam from 1965-1968. Pre-emptying this overt assistance to its beleaguered neighbor, the Chinese had drawn blood on 9 April 1965 by claiming the first US Navy air-to-air loss of the war. An f-4B from VF-96 (crewed by Lieutenant(jg) Terence M Murphy and Ensign Ronald J Fagan) was lost in combat with four J-5s (Chinese-built MiG-17s) of the 8th Naval Air Division. Murphy and Fagan claimed one J-5 (hit with an AIM-7) as the first US kill of the war, but this is not confirmed by Chinese sources. Flying from USS Ranger on a high-altitude BarCap near Hainan Island at the time of the engagement, both crew were lost. Reports emanating from China soon after the action stated that the Phantom II was hit by a misdirected AIM-9 fired from another VF-96 jet. Chairmen Mao then ordered the best Chinese air units to the Vietnamese border.

Chinese fighters also destroyed two USAF F-104Cs in separate incidents later that year when the Lockheed jets, operating out of Da Nang, clashed with J-5s over the South China Sea. The Communists claimed kills on 20 September (reportedly confirmed by the USAF at the time) and 5 October 1965, although postwar Air Force records admitted no air-to-air losses for the F-104C - the three reportedly lost to AAA in 1965 may include these two 'Chinese' kills. The Americans did manage to strike back on 12 May 1966: an F-4C crew from the 390th TFS shot down a Chinese J-5, supposedly over North Vietnam. The Chinese claimed that it was on a training flight over Yunnan province and they filed a diplomatic protest. Chinese fighters operated over North Vietnam on several occasions during 1966 but saw no combat. However, they did intercept some US aircraft on ferrying missions from the Philippines to Vietnam. A US Navy KA-3B tanker (on 12 April 1966) and a USAF F-4C (on 26 June 1967) were reportedly shot down in this way.

The Chinese claimed to have downed an additional three US aircraft (and damaged two others) during this period, with the last confirmed kill of the war according to US records being an A-1H Skyraider of VA-25 that was shot down on 14 February 1968 - its pilot, Lieutenant(jg) J P Dunn, was posted as MIA. Total Chinese claims were 12 shot down and four damaged as a result of 2,138 sorties.

Improved relations between the US and China helped prevent any clashes when air strikes resumed in 1972. These skirmishes provide another example of the type of 'quasi-war' often fought against fighters of neighboring powers during regional conflicts (US and Soviet aircraft also traded shots during the Korean War).


Well this isnt the kill list but still is intressing to read.

And here is a unrelated picture with a "vivid" caption:
external image
The weapon is 76-85mm heavy AA cannon. Most likely "85mm AA gun model 1944"

"Over the last month, taking new steps in their escalation in order to save themselves from their disastrous situation and impasse in South Vietnam the U. S. aggressors have put into practice the so-called "rolling thunder plan" by carrying out repeated ferocious attacks against many North Vietnamese localities, among which Haiphong has been one of their main objectives.

They have wantonly bombed many populous quarters and economic establishments inside and outside the City. But they have met with a dense network of anti-aircraft fire of the army and people of Haiphong and have been duly punished.

Over the past forty days Haiphong has grown in strength in the fight and won victorious victories. From April 26, 1967 to October 11, 1967 the army and people of Haiphong shot down 161 U.S. airplanes and killed or captured many U.S. pilots."


And i am not to blame for the typos in the caption,
but is the Vietnamese propaganda masterminds of 60s that are to blame.

[Edited on 9-9-2003 by FULCRUM]



reply to this post:   copyright & usage 


reply posted on 8-9-2003 @ 11:14 PM by FULCRUM

Pictures!!!

external image
An RF-4C explodes after being hit by an SA-2 "Guideline" surface-to-air missile.

external image
A B-66 acts as a radar pathfinder for flights of F-105s on a Rolling Thunder mission over North Vietnam.

Good to read:

What the Soviets learned.

LOCAL wars such as the one in Indochina have unveiled the real face of contemporary warfare. That war drove the imperialist countries into rearmament. It also proved and fortified certain aspects of Soviet tactics, effecting changes and the development of others.1 Learning the lessons of local wars and their implications points out the direction of developments and changes in military matters and affects future developments of new tactics and weapon systems..


But like in all others there is in this article also such claims about air-to-air combat that make no sense, so it would seem that i will never be able to put together anykind of list about the victories and the loses.. as the lists are so different.. and all claim that US shot more down than lost in air-to-air combat, and as i dont belive that this was the case i will not post those.

anyhow, it seems that the number of MiG:s claimed by US, 137 (54 are MiG-21s) is the correct number that the NVAF did lose, but the claims for only 67 lost are lies. NVAF claims total of 340 in air-to-air combat, and i think that this is infact the truht.

As we know US lost total of 3338 Aircraft in SEA, admiting only 623 lost over North Vietnam,
and only 1736 to enemy action.


US combat (SEA) loses in FY62-73

AAA 1443 (83,2%)
SAM 106 (6,3%)
Base attack 96 (5,5%)
MiG 67 (3,8%)
Other 21 (1,2%)

total: 1736


And the rest just falled from the sky? Yeah, right..



reply to this post:   copyright & usage 


reply posted on 10-9-2003 @ 07:14 PM by FULCRUM


But in the end it was the foot soldiers that decided the out come of the Vietnam war:
external image
Viet Cong guerrillas plant American-made mines upon learning
that South Vietnamese troops are approaching
the Mekong Delta (1973).

(The mine is M18 Claymore and the other man is also armed with US M-16 rifle.)

Summary of air-to-air combat as i see things:

US lost: 340
US downed: 137

Kill / Lose ratio: 1:2.4817518

So for 2,5 downed US jets, one downed NVAF MiG,
and not the other way around as is so often claimed.

But please do correct me if i am totally wrong.. (i am not, i think..)

Or post more info on the subject if you have / have find some..
The subject cover now all aspects of Vietnam airwar.. arclight, helos, gunship, drones, the Ho Chi Minh trail and everything.. that flew in SEA, during US involvement



reply to this post:   copyright & usage 


<<  1    2    3  >>







Top Topics Right Now:



Active Topics Right Now:



ATS MIX Podcasts:











Newest Topics:












ATS Thread Tag System
Members can add a custom descriptive tag to any thread on ATS. Thread Tags will help categorize our site content, help to cross-reference similar threads, and improve the searchability of all ATS threads. This thread is currently defined by these tags:

, ,
















ATS Server: www3.theabovenetwork.com
Powered by AboveTop:Board v2.3
Header data processed in 0.002 seconds
Page processed in 0.237 seconds
7 total database queries (1)









The Above Top Secret Conspiracy Community Web site is a wholly owned social content community of The Above Network, LLC.





thread