To those of you that dont support the prez and his war on terror/IRAQ

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posted on Aug, 11 2005 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by hidatsa
Never in history have troops been blamed for the war their masters created. Iraq is a political expedient orchestrated by industry. No one can possibly doubt that.

GWBush won an election his daddy rigged for him, and because most of the electorate actually voted for Gore, he gave it to them by invading Iraq...


do you have any proof of this "daddy rigging the election"? do not make statements like this unless you have some sort of support please. this is not a bush bashing thread so if your going to make outragious statements such as these please provide some means of support so that others may look at your evidence.




posted on Aug, 11 2005 @ 11:00 PM
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I apologize if it seems to some that i was "being a nazi" or something. but that was not my intent. i want their to be free discussion but i also dont want to turn into some redundant thread where people get bashed and its strays way off topic thats all.


Kind regards,
DigitalGrl



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 01:20 AM
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My appologies digitalgirl, but a poster (umwolves123) has requested additional information.

Then Govenor Jeb Bush stole the Florida 2000 election for his brother GW Bush. Whether he did that at Daddy's request or not is up for debate.
Although if you have ever heard George Bush senior talk about it after loosing to Bill Clinton, he emphasizes the only important thing is winning an election. Does make you wonder about the mindset there.
repeat link:
How the 2000 Florida voter rolls were rigged
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posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 02:17 AM
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Originally posted by slank
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My appologies digitalgirl, but a poster (umwolves123) has requested additional information.

Then Govenor Jeb Bush stole the Florida 2000 election for his brother GW Bush. Whether he did that at Daddy's request or not is up for debate.
Although if you have ever heard George Bush senior talk about it after loosing to Bill Clinton, he emphasizes the only important thing is winning an election. Does make you wonder about the mindset there.
repeat link:
How the 2000 Florida voter rolls were rigged
.


note this is why there are checks and balances, IF and that's a BIG IF that link is accurate about dead people voting, congress would have caught it and so would the justice dept. Neither Bush had any power of the judicial branch at the time. so your information would be deemed as false.

anyways BACK to the thread now.



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 03:10 AM
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Originally posted by DigitalGrl
For those of you that dont support the war on terror or the war in iraq, i have a question for you.

To those of you that support war in Iraq:
www.optruth.org...

Iraq posed NO threat to any U.S. citizen anywhere!
Iraq had NO connection to al-Qaeda. In fact, bin Laden hated Saddam for his western ways.
Iraq had NO connection to any one of the terrorists of 9/11 - not a single one was Iraqi.



posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by Tinkleflower

Then..with all due respect...I'm just not seeing the issue. Was he not somewhat responsible for gaining his own education and/or work experience during that time as a civilian?


Sorry. Off topic, somewhat - I'm just genuinely puzzled.


Whether or not he has a college education is not the point. Too long of a story. The point is that he has served with the military, worked for the army, for the past 30 some odd years. Now he is asked to reinlist or find another job. At 53, he does not want to go BACK to Iraq for another year and half. The government "supported" this troop by backing him into a corner and forcing him to go back if he wants to keep his job as a computer networker.

I am trying to point out that our government is not supporting our troops right now and it is a shame.



posted on Aug, 13 2005 @ 08:16 PM
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I say this to the troops:

You don't believe in war, but what's that gun you're toting?



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 03:40 AM
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Really great posts guys.

definatly alot of interesting perspectives. so i guess the assumption is true to SOME extent. some that dont support the war dont support the troops. And others that dont support the war do..which seems to be the majority.

But whatever your stance at least we can talk about it. And anyone that is stating their point of view..while we might not agree with how they feel or possibly be offended by it, at least they are being honest about their feelings.

Im still learning alot about what has been going on in the war in iraq. and being 19, i have alot to learn in general
but i will say that i do support thet troops, especially since i have friends that are in the navy. As for the war i agreed with the original concept of removing sadam hussien. But how its being handled now i guess from my perspective i see things that maybe i would have done differently. but i did vote for bush in the election, and i continue to stand by who i voted for so far.....but that could be changed depending on what is uncovered in the future.

But i respect all of you that shared you opinon whether it be in opposition or in agreeance with me. and i thank you for taking the time to contribute to my thread.

Kind regards,
DigitalGrl



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 11:21 AM
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To those of you that support Bush:
Visit this site:
www.mindspring.com...
I'm not saying that I agree with the everything that is written at this site, but you should visit this site.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 05:07 PM
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I feel sorry for the troops because at the end of the day they don't have a choice. But I have a real problem with people who join the services today, on the other hand its not their fault they don't have the same beliefs i do, instead its a right i totally respect.
But when i knew someone called Tom who joined the forces recently i just thought if anyone deserves to get killed in Iraq its you, because the others didn't even a have a choice about serving in this war, whilst you joined after it had started. Not surprisingly that what the end of what could have been a good friendship.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by Liberal1984
. But I have a real problem with people who join the services today, on the other hand its not their fault they don't have the same beliefs i do, instead its a right i totally respect.


Which is it? Do you have a problem with them, or do respect their right to choose? I'm not sure where you stand on that one.




But when i knew someone called Tom who joined the forces recently i just thought if anyone deserves to get killed in Iraq its you, because the others didn't even a have a choice about serving in this war, whilst you joined after it had started. Not surprisingly that what the end of what could have been a good friendship.




I'm not surprised it's the end of a friendship. It's incredibly narrow-minded to judge someone else as "deserving to die" because you don't agree with their actions. Any chance this poor guy signed up to try and help the Iraqis who are now struggling in their country? Or doesn't that count?



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 06:58 PM
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Originally posted by Liberal1984
But I have a real problem with people who join the services today, on the other hand its not their fault they don't have the same beliefs i do, instead its a right i totally respect.


I understand exactly what you mean. Not that I totally agree, but I do understand and have felt the same way at times. That's why I started the following thread. It may help you to read through it if you're interested. It helped me clear up some of my feelings on it.

Support the Troops, But not the War?


Originally posted by Tinkleflower
Which is it? Do you have a problem with them, or do respect their right to choose? I'm not sure where you stand on that one.



One can disagree (have a problem) with something someone does and still respect their rights.

[edit on 14-8-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 07:04 PM
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I am not sure how it is decided that someone going over to Iraq is doing it for the good of the Iraqi's. Doesn't seem to make logical sense.

Saddam was a bad man - everyone agrees on that pretty much.

The US removed Saddam - I am assuming everyone agrees with this.

The US is in Iraq - Again, assuming everyone agrees with this.

Terrorists, and Terrorist sympathizers, Nationals, Islam fanatics, just people that don't want the west in the middle east have now all decended unto Iraq in order to battle the west for the various reasons. - Once again, I think everyone can agree on this.

The batttle between the US forces, and those trained by the US forces, against the various anti-America/western world groups is what is damaging the Iraqi people and their lives. - I think this is pretty evident, isn't it?

So, knowing the above - by adding more troops to the middle east, which will prompt them to adding more troops, which results in more battles and ultimately more destruction of the Iraqi lives..

If there is another way where by the addition of more US troops will have the counter effect please show me.



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 05:51 AM
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Originally posted by Passer By
Saddam was a bad man - everyone agrees on that pretty much.


The world is full of bad men - or as they are known dictators - some of them are allied to western powers (Burma, Pakistan, Argentina, Israel et al); some are trade partners/allies (China, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia) others we just tolerate (Zimbabwe, Chile, various Balkan countries). Invasion of a country based on the human rights record of a regime is not defensible nor is it legal in international law.


Originally posted by Passer By
The US removed Saddam - I am assuming everyone agrees with this.

The removal of Saddam destroyed the only alternate leader for the Arab world. Both Saddam and Osama viewed themselves as the next great Caliph, both wanting to unite the Arabs under their own banner. Osama wanted a Muslim state, and Saddam an increasingly secular modern Arab world. The removal of Saddam has done more damage in preventing Terrorism than the original stationing of US troops in Saudi Arabia at the end of the first Gulf conflict.


Originally posted by Passer By
The US is in Iraq - Again, assuming everyone agrees with this.


The reason, given by Osama Bin Laden, for the attacks on America and Western interests on September 11th, was the stationing of American troops in Saudi Arabia. The Islamic Fundamentalists saw this as a violation of their holy sites.
The presence of American Troops in Iraq is now being described in similar terms.

Those who do not support the war or troops, I can identify with for the many reasons they put forward.
Those who support the war and the troops, I many not agree with, but I understand their reasons for doing so.

What I cannot understand is how you can oppose the war but still support the troops? Further more, how a person can take this selective view point and try to defend it as being anything but fence sitting?

If anyone can answer these questions I would be impressed, and hopefully enlightened.



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 06:18 AM
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What bothers and even sickens me is that most Americans view the war as some kind of video game abstraction, some don't even pay attention at all.

There is horrible carnage being created over there.
bodies splattered over roadways,
homes crumbling and bullet riddled.

War is a horrible thing.
That is why you have to have a damn good reason for starting one.
And make no mistake about this war, we started it.

Some war supporters even laugh and make jokes about it.
Like butchering people is some kind of cartoon.
Those are real flesh and blood Americans and Iraqis being killed and maimed over there.

I for the life of me don't see any productive result coming from staying there any longer.

since we are absolutely unable to do any good engaging the Iraqi people, the ones who actually have to make things ultimately fly over there, how can we ever get anything substanative acomplished?

Telling the Iraqis we are leaving will let them know they are incharge of what happens over there. If at that point if a large number of Iraqis want us to linger while they get things in order I would be willing, but only as long as clear and evident progress was being made.

The same idiots who got us into this fiasco and mismanaged it even from before the war started will never make any progress there.

Im sure there are good people in the military, but the only reason we went into this war was to support war profiteer's greed. So i really don't see the Iraq mission as patriotic it is just people doing a job, but it is the job for evil and corruption.

Evil politicians try to hide their evil behind the lives of young Americans.
its pretty disgusting.

I think the Minutemen of Arizona are genuine patriots. They are unpaid volunteers who do it even when being called vigilantes. You are like the civilians that fought and made this nation free from colonialism.

Why is the US military quartered in Iraq, while the US is being invaded along our southern border?

Corporate Greed.
.



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 11:02 AM
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TextText Black

Well............iam not an american, but of course i support the troops over there, but it makes me think, why do france and other country do not support the war in Iraq, now thet´s a more etical and political problem.
Some nations do not support because that war do not have U.N. approval, the U.N. approve afeghanistan, bosnian, and even sommalia, so why do not the great peace keeping organism in the world do not sanction, this war, because it whas not enought evidence that saddam helped Al Qaeda, that´s the question some have to ask. This is the maine reason why german, france and other country´s do not support this war.
U told thar u are not a miachael moore supporter, neighter i, but i have to see and to apreciated is work, because NONE; BUT NONE of and U.S. congressman son, go to war, most of them over there in iraq are voluntires, so they what to make a stand and fight for ur country, but in their free will, and most are from little towns, some from towns that are not in a map, a more political consciense is what i think mos americans need.
what do this war bring to US, death only that!!!
Did it prevent more terrorism, no,, still happends anyway.
I support the troops their death is for what they beliave in, and men i do respect that, but do the free world needed that war dont think so.
Terrorism is a terrile thing from some neurotic people that are insane and must be stooped, but if some part of ur huge multimillion defence cash was send to help people i africa and the middle east, with respect to their culture would it still be terrorism!!!!!!!!´
The terrorism is social, all the people that sufeers revolts so that the way they revolt, if they could live weell would they revolt,, and was terrorism, the most afraid think we have nowdays!!!!!
When ur friends and God hopes not, came crippled, or with some problem, what was the pourpose of the war!!!!
Keep people at home safe!!!! Bahhhh!!!! it could be made with little death os americans, why do u have CIA and other organisations, and special troops, is just to eat supper!!!!!!
I would like to now what was the meaning of this war!!!!

Parinfimis is the best way live,not war





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