Israeli bulldozers raze 100+ shops in West Bank, Nazlat 'Isa

Terrorists are bad but destroying shops of mostly regualar palesteinians only creates more resentment and hate. Throwing more # in the fan so to speak. By doing this your adding more fuel to the fire and more and more ppl will be joining these "freedom fighters" I use this term losely, I support their reasons for fighting just not their means.

Originally posted by Jakomo
Mycroft: "Somebody took pictures of a scrap metal business and is trying to pass them off as evidence of an atrocity.

This propaganda isn�t even good. They�re trying to pull a Goebbels on us."

I wanted to see what kind of lengths you'd go to in order to keep fooling yourself and wow, you even surprised ME. Of COURSE I believe that sometimes there is Arab propaganda but these pictures appear real. They definitely don't look like any scrapyard I've ever seen, far similar to pictures of other demolished Palestinian properties I've seen.

I used to work in a scrap yard. That's what they look like. The only thing that makes these images different from any scrap yard in the United States is the donkey carts.

If these images are similar to other pictures of "demolished Palestinian properties" all I can say is you've been duped before too.

Originally posted by Jakomo
Pity, but there'll be plenty more atrocities for me to report and for you to try and discount.

They do add up though.

jakomo

I have no doubt there will be plenty more. The source you're getting them from is making them up. When an atrocity can be created with just a few hours of creative writing to misrepresent some pictures found in a photo archive, there will be no end to them.

Open your eyes.

Stomping Things
Examples: Elephants, hippopotamuses, rhinoceroses, Israeli bulldozers, buffalo herds, rolling boulders.

I am still waiting for a reply from mycroft to my last post,
i would like to know if Mycroft knows all what i�ve mention, a bit of it, or none.

Originally posted by CoLD aNGeR
I am still waiting for a reply from mycroft to my last post,
i would like to know if Mycroft knows all what i�ve mention, a bit of it, or none.

I read through it, but the point you were trying to make eluded me. If you want to rephrase it so that you're more easily understood, I'll respond.

Originally posted by Mycroft

Originally posted by CoLD aNGeR
I am still waiting for a reply from mycroft to my last post,
i would like to know if Mycroft knows all what i�ve mention, a bit of it, or none.

I read through it, but the point you were trying to make eluded me. If you want to rephrase it so that you're more easily understood, I'll respond.

My point is that u seem to discredit all related with arabs telling really scary staff about IDF, or Israeli goverment, so u seem to be wise, so therefore, i ask
you about your knowledge of the jews, the old new land, and some BOOKS, that�s all i want to know, if u know what i mention above, if u have ever heard of it, thought about it, read about it. So we can disscuss it here

Originally posted by CoLD aNGeR
My point is that u seem to discredit all related with arabs telling really scary staff about IDF, or Israeli goverment, so u seem to be wise, so therefore, i ask
you about your knowledge of the jews, the old new land, and some BOOKS, that�s all i want to know, if u know what i mention above, if u have ever heard of it, thought about it, read about it. So we can disscuss it here

Have you read the books on that list?

Originally posted by Mycroft

Originally posted by CoLD aNGeR
My point is that u seem to discredit all related with arabs telling really scary staff about IDF, or Israeli goverment, so u seem to be wise, so therefore, i ask
you about your knowledge of the jews, the old new land, and some BOOKS, that�s all i want to know, if u know what i mention above, if u have ever heard of it, thought about it, read about it. So we can disscuss it here

Have you read the books on that list?

Most of them, i am now with the Dead Sea Scriptures,
which is pretty strange book, i actually posted a while ago something about the Dead Sea Scrolls:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Anyway i was asking YOU if u read those books, and knew those people, if u do, please share your info with us, i am sure that there is enough stuff to talk about them.

Specially about:

Theodore Herzl
Max Nordau
Leo Motzkin

I'm familiar with the names. I'm not about to give a lecture, but I hope you find the reading educational.

Originally posted by Mycroft

I'm familiar with the names. I'm not about to give a lecture, but I hope you find the reading educational.

You would be more neutral and more informed if you look up and read some books, i advice u at least , Altneuland (Old New Land, 1902) and get some info
about the Israel that u defend so much, get reading mate, or at least read the biography of the names i have mention above.

Mycroft: Um, you seem a little deluded. It's been picked up by a lot of other sites by now, and yet you still continue to decry "FAKE!". Like it's some attempt at Arab propaganda to make Israel look bad.

News Flash: Israel needs no one to help them look bad, they are fantastically successful at it.

melbimc.nomasters.org...

www.menib.com...

www.factupworld.com...


And this one is unrelated to the Nazlat incident, but a good read.

www.forward.com...

"A Failed Israeli Society Collapses While Its Leaders Remain Silent
By AVRAHAM BURG "

"It turns out that the 2,000-year struggle for Jewish survival comes down to a state of settlements, run by an amoral clique of corrupt lawbreakers who are deaf both to their citizens and to their enemies. A state lacking justice cannot survive. More and more Israelis are coming to understand this as they ask their children where they expect to live in 25 years. Children who are honest admit, to their parents' shock, that they do not know. The countdown to the end of Israeli society has begun."

Avraham Burg was speaker of Israel's Knesset from 1999 to 2003 and is a former chairman of the Jewish Agency for Israel. He is currently a Labor Party Knesset member.


jakomo

So in order to bring about "peace", Israel ruins the businesses and homes of civilians at 5am? I don't know about anyone else, but if a bulldozer was destroying MY house at 5am without my consent, I'd be quite terrified.

Given these kinds of behaviors I can understand why people view Ariel Sharon as a terrorist.

Why are we still giving them money? Doesn't that make the US passive supporters of terrorism?

MK i highly doubt that anyone is randomly waddling to people's houses and pushing them over with no cause and just picking random targets. Come on man. And I don't want to hear that Israel is doing something wrong by knocking down the houses of bombers. Boohoo. Don't blow kids up and no one will touch your #.
You honestly think they just randomly drive bulldozers up and plow over shops and houses?

Djarums: "And I don't want to hear that Israel is doing something wrong by knocking down the houses of bombers. Boohoo. Don't blow kids up and no one will touch your shyte.
You honestly think they just randomly drive bulldozers up and plow over shops and houses?"

Nope, it's more like this. "You lived next door to a terrorist, so we're going to bulldoze your whole neighborhood. Oh, no place to go? Too bad. Oh, and don't be mad."

And as to blowing kids up, practice what you preach.

story.news.yahoo.com.../ap/20030830/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians

"GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Israel killed a leading Hamas militant and his assistant in a helicopter missile strike Saturday, the latest in a series of attacks that have sent militants into hiding and left a U.S.-backed "road map" peace plan in tatters.

Israeli troops also killed an 8-year-old girl and wounded seven other Palestinians with submachine gun fire in the Gaza Strip (news - web sites)'s Khan Younis refugee camp, witnesses and hospital officials said. The girl, Aya Fayad, was shot in the chest by soldiers firing at the camp from a nearby military base."

So tell me, how many Palestinian children's lives equal one Israeli? If two Hamas "militants" (notice they are not termed "terrorists" because they have no proof against them) are killed and an 8 year old is slain in the exchange, is that a fair trade? Is that "the price of action"? Because if it is, then every single Israeli who has died in suicide attacks is under the same umbrella. It's no tragedy, it's just the price of action (in this case, "action" being defined as the Occupation).

If these militants were such scum, why not CAPTURE them and TRY them and show the rest of the world what scumbags they are. Why summarily execute them? Israel is judge, jury and executioner and they wonder why they are looked on with anger.

Use your brain.


jakomo

Originally posted by Jakomo
Mycroft: Um, you seem a little deluded. It's been picked up by a lot of other sites by now, and yet you still continue to decry "FAKE!". Like it's some attempt at Arab propaganda to make Israel look bad.

It is being picked up by other sites�sites that are also fronts for Palestinian-Arab propaganda. You got palestinemonitor.org, MENIB, PENGON, and Electronicintifada.net, all of which are Arabic propaganda tools aimed at subverting western liberalism through selective reporting, distortion and often outright lies. Attempts that have had some success.

I�m pro-Israeli. I�ve researched the issues, read the history, followed the news�and over time I�ve formed the opinion that most (if not all) of the criticism leveled against Israel is bogus, put forth by people who are either ignorant or have ulterior motives.

Which is not to say I don�t feel sorry for the Palestinian-Arabs. I do. I think that what�s happening in the West Bank and Gaza is really sad, and I wish it would stop. But any real discussion has to recognize the role these people (their leadership, other Arabic nations) has played in creating the situation as it is today, and the role they play in maintaining the situation. The truth is the land was captured because Israel was being attacked from the West Bank, and it continues to be occupied because the people in charge of stopping the violence (the Palestinian Authority) is made up of the same people that create the violence.

Originally posted by CoLD aNGeR
You would be more neutral and more informed if you look up and read some books, i advice u at least , Altneuland (Old New Land, 1902) and get some info
about the Israel that u defend so much, get reading mate, or at least read the biography of the names i have mention above.

You want me to read from your reading list? You think that if I do that, I will learn new things and come to your opinion?

Hmmm. I think somewhere in here is the germ of a good idea.

I challenge you:

I will read from your reading list, books of your choice in the order that you determine. I won�t even hold you to this list, I�ll give you the opportunity to come up with a new list. I will do this if you also read from a list of my choosing.

I read what you want me to read, you read what I want you to read. We can read them at the same time, discuss them on-line, and we will see whose opinion is moved more.

Are you up to it?

The truth is the land was captured because Israel was being attacked from the West Bank

Why has this become the forgotten fact? These "occupied territories" are hardly desirable areas strategically or economically, and Israel would not have had them if they hadn't been attacked in 67. Did someone delete that from most of your history books?

Originally posted by Djarums

The truth is the land was captured because Israel was being attacked from the West Bank

Why has this become the forgotten fact? These "occupied territories" are hardly desirable areas strategically or economically, and Israel would not have had them if they hadn't been attacked in 67. Did someone delete that from most of your history books?

Did someone told you about the Sinai being taken by them, and because of it the had war with egypt, and the reasons they had to do that?
Do you know what israel tried to do to egypt?
Why aren�t u telling the whole thing, from 67 till 73 at least...

Originally posted by Mycroft

Originally posted by Jakomo
Mycroft: Um, you seem a little deluded. It's been picked up by a lot of other sites by now, and yet you still continue to decry "FAKE!". Like it's some attempt at Arab propaganda to make Israel look bad.

It is being picked up by other sites�sites that are also fronts for Palestinian-Arab propaganda. You got palestinemonitor.org, MENIB, PENGON, and Electronicintifada.net, all of which are Arabic propaganda tools aimed at subverting western liberalism through selective reporting, distortion and often outright lies. Attempts that have had some success.

I�m pro-Israeli. I�ve researched the issues, read the history, followed the news�and over time I�ve formed the opinion that most (if not all) of the criticism leveled against Israel is bogus, put forth by people who are either ignorant or have ulterior motives.

Which is not to say I don�t feel sorry for the Palestinian-Arabs. I do. I think that what�s happening in the West Bank and Gaza is really sad, and I wish it would stop. But any real discussion has to recognize the role these people (their leadership, other Arabic nations) has played in creating the situation as it is today, and the role they play in maintaining the situation. The truth is the land was captured because Israel was being attacked from the West Bank, and it continues to be occupied because the people in charge of stopping the violence (the Palestinian Authority) is made up of the same people that create the violence.

Therefore i�ve asked you about your knowledge regarding the Israel matter, and just Israel.
I accept your challenge, you can start with those 2 books,

Altneuland
The Jewish State

And the biography of (Read the biography of Gaster 1st before u read any book.)
Theodore Herzl Gaster
Max Nordau

And for the last remember this:
"Only Hashem will return the Jews to the land of Israel."

CA, your last statement is one used by a group of Hasidic Jews (the ultra orthodox) to explain their opinion that the Jewish people should not have gone back to Israel until the Messiah came and rebuilt the third temple. Please take into account when quoting things the size of the group who uses it as their motto and what it represents. I'm sure it was a cute quote at the time, and looked great to show that Jews thought God will kill everyone else and waltz them on in though.