Originally posted by a-being-?
Ok point taken you probberbly have reseached the symbology fine..
here is a question then what is your source?
Ummm... well, there are lots. Where to begin? I can't really squeeze 4 years of research and sources into one post; you just have to be careful where
you get your information. I find that going to occult society websites, like BOTA as an example, or other Hermetic or Qabalistic groups usually
returns the results I want. I have researched sources from both "sides," as in those who are explaining what the symbols mean to them and others who
try to assign evil connotations to everything. You really just have to seperate the wheat from the chaff, and only you can decide which is which for
That's one of the beauties of symbolism, IMO. It's different for everyone, to an extent. It's the intent
behind the symbol that is
important, not the symbol itself.
Take the swastika, for example. Before Hitler and the Nazis, the swastika was an altogether benevolent symbol.
The swastika is an ancient symbol that has been found worldwide, but it is especially common in India. Its name comes the Sanskrit word svasti (sv =
well; asti = is), meaning good fortune, luck and well-being.
The swastika is most commonly used as a charm to bring good fortune (in which case the arms are bent clockwise), but it has a variety of religious
meanings as well.
The right-hand swastika is one of the 108 symbols of the god Vishnu as well as a symbol of the sun and of the sun god Surya. The symbol imitates in
the rotation of its arms the course taken daily by the sun, which appears in the Northern Hemisphere to pass from east, then south, to west. (It is
also a symbol of the sun among Native Americans.)
The left-hand swastika (called a sauvastika) usually represents the terrifying goddess Kali, night and magic. However, this form of the swastika is
not "evil" and it is the form most commonly used in Buddhism.
So you see, sometimes symbols are not what they seem to those who guess at the meanings or go by the meanings others have ascribed to them. If a group
uses a symbol, it stands to reason that the best way to find out what that symbol means to them is to ask them. Go straight to the source, if you
It also helps to research the symbol itself in its own context, i.e. in all its various uses. The 5-pointed star or pentagram is another example. Most
people will tell you that the pentagram is a "Satanic" or otherwise "evil" symbol. I submit the following:
During the times of the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament), the pentacle was the first and most important of the Seven Seals - an amulet whose seals
represented the seven secret names of God. It was inscribed on King Solomon's ring, which is often called Solomon's Seal in error. Each point of the
pentagram was also interpreted as referring to the five books of the Pentateuch - the first five books in the Hebrew Scriptures; the Torah.
In Christian times:
The five points of the pentagram have been interpreted as representing the five wounds of Christ (2 wrist, 2 ankle and 1 side).
The Roman Emperor Constantine used the pentagram in his seal and amulet. 14
It has been referred to as the Star of Bethlehem
It was used to symbolize the star which allegedly led three Zoroastrian astrologers to the baby Jesus; it was called the Three Kings'
This was all way, WAY before Anton LaVey.
Is there one source I can quote to you? No. You just have to dig and dig for yourself to find what you believe to be the truth. Take what Mr. Tsarion
said that impressed you and delve deeper into it. You might be surprised what you'd learn.
the reason i would like you to watch the program is that i myself is in doubt i did go a little crazy in my last post admitted. now you ask
wich symbology and i would start off with the skull and cross bones found on some of the orders, medals if youd like the reason why i told you if you
knew the meaning of the symbology is that all the ranks medals ect is linked to royals IMO could be wrong it just terms like: the knight order or
royal arch mason i think it was, becourse as you know the royals have been monarchs not very democratic IMO and a system using there terminology just
makes me supicious IF you know what the royals represent in the old days..nothing good i would argue..
As far as I am aware, the "Royal" in Royal Arch is an allusion to Solomon, the King of Israel. Nothing to do with the petty squabbles of medieval
feudal monarchies, nor present-day monarchies either. You have to be careful how you make your connections, and why.
thats why i REALLY would like you to watch it still even if you don't belive it all there must be something...
I'm sorry dude, maybe one of these days I'll get to see it. Right now it's just not feasible for me.
and as far as i know the original masons where callede stone masons becourse they where from normal mason people (working class) and today at
least where i live you have to be rich in order to join wich i view as a step in the wrong direction there by making it a possebility that it could be
infiltrated at some loges
Whoa, whoa, whoa. The "original" or "operative" Masons were indeed Stone Masons. They worked in stone, erecting buildings and such. They had
lodges, or "guilds" to help to facilitate their work.
Given your comment I bet you would be surprised ot learn that probably 90% of Masons are "working class," myself included. If you had to be rich to
join let me assure you I would not be a member.
There is something to be said about geography and local attitudes; after all, lodges are made up of local guys, but if you are truly interested I
would say curb your intimidation and just go talk to them. I'd be willing to bet they would not turn you away based on anything to do with status.
As RWPBR said recently: "It's a character thing, not a class thing."
I don't get what you are saying about infiltration; could you elaborate?
but lets start with the skull and bones motive...
Well, you picked the most obvious and widely accepted symbol used in Masonry. It represents death, plain and simple. It reminds us that we all will
die, and to live your life so as to be ready to go at any time, because we could go at any time. Man is frail and delicate and death is inevitable.
The Skull and Crossbones reminds us as Masons to walk uprightly so that if your time comes you will have lived your life in such a way that you will
not fear death. It is just another part of life.
after all much of the known knowlege today is gathered by top officials like aristrocrats who has connections hell just take the british
cyclopidia Britanica and if someone disagree they are being accused as fruitcakes wierdos and anti goverment i just find it interesting if there is
nothing to it why can't there be an open debate where people get a chance to defend themselves?
I'm sorry, what?
if you finally get to see their views on tv its put togehter so they look like loonies but if you have watched some programs like the michael
tsarion and then see him on discovery scifi channel after you can see that he is being cut off...
I'm familiar with the tactic. That's pretty much what this thread was originally about, actually.
..here i go again sorry ahmm the skull and cross bones it was i will look at some more and come with more questions later.
Skull and crossbones, check. I'll be looking for your response.