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There were many people upset on the Internet about his (Peter Jennings) UFO special because he said that a shadow government didn't exist. (not a direct quote).
Originally posted by Gazrok
Of course Greer and Friedman were upset. He basically called them conmen, and also completely ignored their credentials....while playing up the credentials of the skeptics! Not only did I express my anger to ATS, but also to ABC, Prime Time Live, and anyone else I'd get to listen, hehe....
Originally posted by Vegemite
Gazrok, Roswell is a myth. A myth that is funded by the book publishing industry. Back in the 50s there were alot of secret missions by the air force. Such as the Mogul baloons. They were highly top secret so when one crashed they had to cover it up. Then 8 years later they dropped dummys from high altitude parachutes which some people saw on the ground and thought were dead aliens. Then another incident were an explosion caused a pilots face to swell to alien like proportions. These events plus 30~ years of time between Roswell and the first book on Roswell made eyewitnesses memories distorted into believing this was all one incident, when it wasnt. Peter Jennings is the only one who makes sence and he will be missed.
Originally posted by Vegemite
Gazrok, Roswell is a myth.
Peter Jennings is the only one who makes sence and he will be missed.
I agree he will be missed, but I don't think he even investigated Roswell. Did you even see the special? Peter Jennings barely mentioned Roswell and refered to it as a myth.
I do not like to argue point for point, particular when I am facing repetitive points that have little or no resolving power.
I do really like the way you organize your thoughts, and counter statements in direct challenge to you would have detracted
from your Roswell work. This forum is probably a better place. That said, I would like to counter your points in a manner
that appears to be somewhat lacking on ATS as a whole. I intend to counter with a few challenges that just might perk
your interest enough to look deeper, beyond your bias in fact.
Testimony is not EVIDENCE period. Even in court. I would submit that most attorneys have been trained in a manner whereby, as a learning exercise, they are shown that they cannot even trust their own testimony, and how their own testimony changes with the passage of time. This is a trait that is INDEPENDANT of the credibility of a witness.
Likewise, the credibility of a witness does NOT extend to his testimony.
I submit that the ONLY evidence regarding the Roswell event is the Army press release (a curio) and the photo of the balloon debris, which has been identified by a key Mogul honcho as Mogul debris.
This presents us with another curio.
My recollection is that Mogul 2 and 3 debris were found after Mogul 4, which is the Mogul candidate for the Brazel ranch area. Mogul 1, I believe, was not launched from New Mexico at all. The time frames are consistant as were the debris locations.
(I left out the "Ramey" memo because it does not pass my sanity check. It simply violates the resolution capabilities of the emulsion in common use at the time for BW photos. Waving wands and mirrors and "special" digital processing cannot
change the original resolution.)
I further do not believe that the Mogul explanation came from the USAF, but was borrowed from a UFOlogist who independantly reached that conclusion in a timely fashion and the USAF "bought" it so to speak. While weather balloons were common, research balloons never were and are not now. Only the very few that cannot be located are left to rot in the desert.
Anything that is classified with regards to nuclear weaponry is exempt from automatic downgrading. If it was related to nuclear weapons and was classified in 1947, I believe it would still be classified today. (Referring to my speculation that Mogul DATA may have been related.)
As far as wondering about brand new shiny pickup trucks, vast military cordons, etc...well, hear-say may be allowed on discussion boards but it aint even allowed in court. But to make a fun argument here, there is other hear-say on ATS that suggests that Mac Brazel was not even concerned about the stuff on the ranch until another individual, in Corona NM I recall, mentioned that there was a reward for anything unusual that may be a flying disc. The reward amount was around $3000 which for 1947 would have come closer to buying a new Home.
I believe that the "crash" sites share a direct linear relationship with the number of "alien" museums in Roswell. Since I have heard that a third such musuem is being planned, I conclude that when alien museums = 3
then crash sites = 3.
Any bets ?
Post Script, just for grins, I will also toss out that there was NO ground radar at Roswell Army Air Field in June 1947. The nearest radar was sorta experimental (being tested for missile tracking) and was the SCR 584 at WSPG just on the other side of the Organ
Mts. from Las Cruces, with a maximum range of 40 statute miles. Even if it had better range, the Sacremento mountains in the area of Sierra Blanca would have blocked the areas under discussion.
Peter Jennings did a professional job, not surprising that the believers were upset.
Ever think about doing this full time like Friedman?
Originally posted by Gazrok
This told me that the Air Force was definitely lying in their report. The next speculation then, was maybe a top secret US craft. The problem? Even planes such as the U-2, Stealth Bomber, Stealth Fighter, SR-71, etc. are now fully known to exist. Any craft developed in 1947 would not still be classified.
but realistically he was just another easily manipulated mainstream journalist
And like most current high profile mainstream journalists he was a tool of the establishment, an effective mouthpiece for their mis and disinformation.
I often wonder how directly controlled the media is. I think there is some manipulation, but through culture. Every journalist knows that if they treat the UFO or any other fringe subject seriously will loose credibility, and reduce chances for advancement.
False. Testimony IS evidence, and yes, in court. ==Gazrok
Objection, your honor, the witness is stating his opinion.
We do need to agree on some legaleze. The plantiff says the defendant has committed gross piracy.
The defendant says he did not, the plantiff is lying or mistaken. Both are sworn testimony. You
would say both testimonies are evidence. I say neither testimony is evidence. How do we resolve
contradictory circumstances to the satisfaction of both of us? And yes, before we begin.
Hopefully, we can agree on hear-say. It is second hand testimony. Example:
When I was interviewing the Proctors, (not me personally) Loretta told me that
Mac Brazel said....
Objection.....Hearsay your honor.
Example of how to introduce that first hand real testimony. Loretta Proctor, take the stand.
I recall when Mack (real spelling) showed us some of the debris, he said something about
"freezer" tape with purple writing.
If you recall, I completely dismiss Kaufman’s claims, and most UFOlogists do not consider him a credible witness. ==Gaz
Sounds like you want your cake and eat it too. You cant have it both ways. Either his testimony is evidence or it is not.
Thats why we need to have a mutual agreement on these things before we begin or we end up discussing apples and oranges.
What would you suggest ?