NEWS: Grieving Mother's Campaign Against Bush's War

More "Bush supporter" baiting, marg?
Can you even have a conversation or discussion without mentioning "Bush supporters"?

Let me know, k, cause I'm still not biting on that bait.

"I want him to quit using my son's death to justify more killing," she said. "The only way he can honor my son's death is to bring the troops home."

Perhaps she would be better off following her own allegation?
How about she not use her son's death to political grandstand, maybe? Cause what she is doing is not honoring her son, Casey, or those who have lost their lives over in Iraq and Afghanistan, let alone thier families.





seekerof

[edit on 13-8-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by grover
Well I would have to say I agree with 90% of what you just said vagabond

I'm glad we've found some common ground then friend.

...I urge impeachment because that is our legal recourse for removing a criminal president

Very true, but as I've said, this is just a very dangerous time to use it. Back to back attempted impeachments sets a nasty precedent. What if we do it, then the Democrats win the White House without taking the Senate? The Republicans will retaliate by impeaching the President and VP, and install the speaker of the house- that would be as perverse as it gets- that would be a coup, but roughly half of the American people would go along with it, if the Republicans had the "they did it to us" excuse to lean on.

personally leading a country into war based on known false premises is far more a high crime than anything clinton did or did not do but that is my opinion.

This is actually a cornerstone of my view on the matter. Clinton did lead us to war under false pretenses in Kosovo. The two highest estimates on the death toll in Kosovo came from his administration- first 100,000 then 500,000, and he called it genocide. The final death toll was just under 3,000, and the UN found that there was no genocide. Furthermore, of those roughly 3,000 dead Albanians, NATO admits to being responsible for as many as 1500. Clinton lied and people died. It also bears mentioning that we came as close to war with Russia at that point as any time since the Cold War and Gorbachev blamed Clinton for "reversing the strategies which ended the Cold War".
But he wasn't impeached, nor should he have been. His strategy was ill advised, and was facilitated by lies, as is common for many presidents. He was, however, trying to do what he felt was good for America. I don't think we can afford to impeach every well-meaning failure that comes along. I think we need to save that for the really big threats- which frankly Bush sometimes pushes the edge on, but hasn't quite crossed yet- we can still patch up any mistakes later, and we'll probably be left with a few good legacies from him as well. If partisanship weren't at the horrible high that it is right now, I might very well have a different view on impeaching Bush, but in this case, I just can't see it.

To keep from going too long in this post I'm going to shy away from responding to your liberal views. I don't agree with them, but you have every right to them, and it's not quite a topic that falls under this thread, so there's no point in taking exception here.

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Well Bush Grandstanded on a US carrier with the Mission Acomplished banner.

If the mission is acomplished WTF are we still doing there seekerof?

You are a total doublestandarded Hypocrite.

We have to stomach the little Christian NAZI in the Whitehouses Grandstanding, but when a mother's son is murdered for this corporate patsy SHE is condemed for simply wanting to personally ask him what secret high goal he supposedly died for.
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Alright, enough of the namecalling. This is the News forum.

slank:
I noticed that you have avoided responding to the question I asked of you on your next to last post, excluding the one below this one, to this topic. When you get around to it, anytime this remaining year will do for me, k?

Anyhow, moving on:

Well Bush Grandstanded on a US carrier with the Mission Acomplished banner.

*bang* Ouch...

If the mission is acomplished WTF are we still doing there seekerof?

*bang* Ouch...

You are a total doublestandarded Hypocrite.

*bang* and *bang* Double ouch...

*grabbing chest, falls to ground, as if dead, and looking skyward, asks...."When will she stop being a manipulated puppet and stop dishonoring her son's death by using it for her and others political grandstanding purposes? May God have Bush give her another consoling kiss on the cheek....closes eyes....*





seekerof

[edit on 13-8-2005 by Seekerof]

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Bush used United States property, a Hundred Million dollar carrier, In a flight suit with a Big Fat Karl Rove inspired banner 'Mission Acomplished' surrounded by military personel probably commanded to be there by their superiors.

That's GRANDSTANDING

Mrs. Shehan has to stand in a ditch beside the road holding a paper sign after losing her boy who died for Haliburton's greed.

There is no comparison.

One is all for political show.

The other is from a pain of an aching heart.

edit: spelling

[edit on 13-8-2005 by slank]

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Maybe the reason she didn't ask the first time is because unlike Bush she is not handled and prepped by paid political consultants and operatives.

Bush can't even speak English properly. Everything has to be scripted or he has to get radio assistance during the debates.
Every rally or event is VERY CAREFULLY SCREENED before Bush ever sees a single crowd.
He has political operatives pose as Secret Service Agents to remove American citizens from supposed 'town hall meetings'.

She unlike Bush doesn't have the entire corrupt corporate community behind her.

She does have a mother's pain and grief and confusion about why her son had to die.

(Youre a very good actor seekerof, nice drama )
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Originally posted by slank
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Bush used United State property, a Hundred Million dollar carrier, In a flight suit with a Big Fat Karl Rove inspired banner 'Mission Acomplished' surrounded by military personel probably commanded to be there by their superiors.

Still you got to admit is was the best aerial themed propaganda stunt since Hitler flew into Nuremberg at the start of "Triumph of the Will" which we studied as an example of visual propaganda. Having a leader descend from the sky to cheering soldiers or crowds gives them a aura of strength and leadership (or something like that, i was only half paying attention to the lesson LOL). Old tactic and one that the tax payer shouldn't have pay for but considering how many people watched that it was a great stunt, at least until the war started to not go as planned, OUCH.

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Its big multimillion dollar political theater.
You think they have any Hollywood consultants working for them?

Trouble is it is just like many recent movies, it's all production and has a story line too thin [stupid] for my taste.

I guess i prefer stories and movies that have some kind of content behind them. I just saw "A murder of Crows again" to me that was a good movie. The heros were smart and the lead villian was incredibly smart. Made an excellent tale.

I am tired of Idiots for heros and political leaders.
Obviously they are popular or convenient for some one.

I was brought up believing the United States and its people were smarter than this.
I guess i was very wrong.
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Originally posted by Seekerof
That may or may not be the case, entirely.

my point exactly we dont know anything, but logically speaking a mother would know her own son better than an aunt.

What we have here is a woman who is using the death of her son to political grandstand;

quite a nice grandstand living on the side of a road this would be all yesterday's news if Bush just drives out, sits down beside a campfire and has a chat with her.

a woman whose suffering has turned to flat out hatred. She is undoubtedly also being manipulated by many significant anti-war movements/organizations

if you were in her position and thought that your son had died for illegitimate reasons wouldnt you be angry too ?? All Bush has to do is go out, meet her and answer her what noble cause her son died for and she'll leave. Nixon did it to the peace protestors, why not bush towards one woman? Why would she have been 'brainwashed' by peace organizations?? :S any evidence or just speculation?

For her to claim that thse other family members do not know her son as she does, is an outright lie. Hell, even she did not know her son. How so? Well, apparently, he supported what was taking place in Iraq, because he re-uped.

Tell me Seekerof, does your Aunt or Godfather know you as well as your mum does??

"He reenlisted in the Army last August after a three-year tour because he wanted to become an officer or have a career in the military," Cherie Quartarolo said of her deceased nephew.

Looks like he wanted to go career, cant become a career military officer outside of the military can you?? I dont know if he was for or against the war, neither do you or all these other bloggers. But I would think his own mother would know what he would want more than other family members. Re-enlistment isnt enough evidence for me.

She knew this, but yet is going on with her crusading efforts to political grandstand, despite this would have been against her sons wishes, if he had been alive.

more speculation, we do not know what her sons wishes would be because he's dead. I'd say Cindy would have a good idea though of what she wants.

As for those other family members not knowing her son as she did, I am finding that in fact they did know her son quite well:
Local family mourns death of soldier, nephew

I didnt say they didnt know her son, but they wouldnt know him like his mum did.

Bear in mind that the Five Stages of Grief are:
* Denial
* Anger
* Bargaining
* Depression
* Acceptance

another attempt to discredit the woman's work simply as misguided grief. Once she accepts what happens, she'll turn around and see the light right?

Anyways my point is that we do not know what Casey would of wanted. All we have is what the mother of a son thinks what Casey wanted and then we have relatives of Casey thinking what he would of wanted. This has gone straight down ideological lines, the left taking one 'side' and the right taking the other 'side'.

I dont care if you agree or disagree with Cindy, that's your choice and I respect that and your opinion. However do you think its too much to ask for Bush to just go and take an hour to chat with the woman and talk things over?? It would end this whole issue and also help the president reconnect with an increasingly alienated portion of the US public.

All i'm asking for is a little common sense and civility on the part of the president to see one woman, not for her to sit in the ditch while we fight over whether she is doing the right thing or if she isnt.

thanks,
drfunk

[edit on 14-8-2005 by drfunk]

[edit on 14-8-2005 by drfunk]

Originally posted by marg6043
Nice propaganda there seekerof, now do you want to see the voices of the people that are not kissing up to Mr. Bush?

They are the families and survivers of Mr. bush war in Iraq.

See for everything done in Iraq is always two sides of the story, it depends which one you want to stick with.

I have seen survivors from the war, eating and drinking at the inauguration of the president. All of them, and they were quite a few with their wives, shaked their heads when they saw the signs of protesters like this woman.

The propaganda comes from those who think and claim that all the families and survivors of Iraq are against this war and against president Bush. The son of this woman protesting thought he was fighting for a noble cause. I know he was fighting for a noble cause, if you disagree that's fine, but do not try to tell us that "all families of those in Iraq and all the survivors of Iraq are against the war and the president, when it is not true.

[edit on 14-8-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by marg6043
And you are such a good Bush supported I am surprised you are not supporting him in texas with the "rest of the supporters"

I have been living in both WY and Montana now for a bit, and all I see are signs of people supporting our troops in Iraq, supporting the war and supporting president Bush. I haven't talked to everyone living in these states, but in my new job I get to go to a few rigs, a few different cities and get to talk to people from different parts of these states, and it seems that the mayority of people, at least around these two states still support president Bush Marg, so there are more people than just those from Texas Marg and that I know a mayority of people in south Florida still support the war and the president Marg. So not all of president Bush' supporters are in Texas now. ;P

BTW, I didn't get this job because I am a Bush supporter, but because of my engineering degree, anyways the owners of the company I work for are..... FRENCH...................

Originally posted by marg6043
Its time to stop the madness of Mr. Bush war.

[edit on 13-8-2005 by marg6043]

Not really Marg. It is time for people like yourself to realize that not everyone, and not the mayority of the people in the US are against president Bush or the cause our soldiers are fighting for in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Originally posted by drfunk
my point exactly we dont know anything, but logically speaking a mother would know her own son better than an aunt.

Not really, a mother would be blinded by her lost child, instead of thinking about what her son was fighting for and what he believed. It has been said even by her, and the other mother who is also protestig on the news, that their sons were in favour of the war and saw it as a noble cause. So these women are not speaking on behalf of their sons. They are trying to blame someone for their loss, and they know they won't get any possitive reactions protesting and bashing the terrorists/insurgent in Iraq, so they take on the next easier target.

When I see people who claim to know the mind of this soldier on EITHER side of the political fence it really shows their motivations are 100% about their "SIDE" of the war issue and NOT about this woman or her dead son.

To say that he was against the war when he re-upped is non sensical IMHO...

To say that he couldn't be a career military man unless he re-upped "even though he was against the war" is non sensical as well IMHO.

To say he FOR the war because he re-upped is non sensical as well.

Maybe he had ZERO options but the military. His apparently STABLE relatives say he was not against the war and that is certainly MORE credible than the other statements I've read in this whole shabang.

I would think were he trying to make a statement against the war because he was so against it he would've joined his mother on the road side instead of doing another hitch with his Uncle Sam.

the mother has no credibility in my mind for two reasons;

1. She is OBVIOUSLY distraught with grief, who wouldn't be? We aren't supposed to bury our children. This is NOT a time of clear thought for ANY person.

2. She is MOST DEFINATELY Grandstanding on the anti war issue IMHO. No other way to look at this. How many thousands of women have lost their children in this war? How many hundreds of thousands in wars before this? Now, how many of them were sitting on the side of the road demanding an audience with the President to be told why their child died in war?

My motto, FOLLOW THE MONEY wil be proven once again if this continues for much longer, BET ON IT.

Right now I am willing to concede she is really distraught and getting unique advice from someone about the roadside ploy. If she continues or notches it up to some yet more extreme demonstration I will bet dollars to doughnuts she is on the payroll of an antiwar S.I. group.

In the mean time, I doubt anybody at ATS knows what was in this young man's mind relative to the war. Short of a genuine diary, letter or other CONFIRMED document coming to the surface I doubt we'll ever know.

I, personally think this war is WAY overdue for an end, I don't have any respect for the "reasons" we went, but I will NOT rally against my brothers and sisters in arms over there doing what they signed on to do and are being ordered to do.

I sure as heck would hate to think what the average Soldier must feel when they read these articles and see drek like this on the news.

Springer...

Originally posted by Springer

In the mean time, I doubt anybody at ATS knows what was in this young man's mind relative to the war. Short of a genuine diary, letter or other CONFIRMED document coming to the surface I doubt we'll ever know.

I agree with you, I for one can only talk after been a military wife for 22 years and had my husband gone for 18 months during the first gulf conflict affair.

I, personally think this war is WAY overdue for an end, I don't have any respect for the "reasons" we went, but I will NOT rally against my brothers and sisters in arms over there doing what they signed on to do and are being ordered to do.

I sure as heck would hate to think what the average Soldier must feel when they read these articles and see drek like this on the news.

Springer...

Wise words and I wish I can applaud you for it, if we as Americans can not get together in the name of our loves ones in Iraq and tell the president that enough is enough nothing is going to be done, and everything is going to keep spinning around for the benefit of the few and is not in our soldiers favor either.

I can only imagine and hope that our soldiers in Iraq want nothing more than to come home to their families.

I truly believe that one grieving mother in the news is a good start.

May our creator help us all.

[edit on 14-8-2005 by marg6043]

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She's Grandstanding?

Bush does nothing BUT Grandstand.
He doesn't even have a soul. He can only put on hollow shows.
He is the product of heartless greed and corruption.

She doesn't get the taxpayers 100 million dollar aircraft Carrier to make bogus claims about mission acomplished.

Follow the money?

Mother of God,
How much money from corrupt corporate America has gone into shoring up this nincompoop of a president? Billions.

She has to stand in a ditch with a paper sign because Bush squandered her sons life for no good purpose.

While Bush races by in a taxpayer bought motorcade with armed secret service agents.

The man had to have every single person at campaign rallies screened because the poor little rich boy can't stand the heat of any genuine intellectual confrontation.

He had a Republican campaign operative pose as a Secret Service agent to oust people who had a bumper sticker on their car for pete's sake.

Bush is a soulless nothing. and Anyone still following his vile corrupt path is obviously devoid of a soul as well.

Killing young Americans in a war to funnel money to Haliburton is the sickest reason ever in this nation's history for a war.

Bush is an empty vessel.
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Originally posted by slank
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Well Bush Grandstanded on a US carrier with the Mission Acomplished banner.

If the mission is acomplished WTF are we still doing there seekerof?

You are a total doublestandarded Hypocrite.

We have to stomach the little Christian NAZI in the Whitehouses Grandstanding, but when a mother's son is murdered for this corporate patsy SHE is condemed for simply wanting to personally ask him what secret high goal he supposedly died for.
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OK, that's it. You are simply using the tired old tactic of claiming two wrongs make it right - the other guy did it so it's OK for my person to do it too, even if I'm claiming it's wrong the first place.

That makes you the hypocrite.

And I'm so sick of all the nazi references. The truth on that is that if Bush really was the nazi you claim him to be, you would already be in a cattle car on your way to a camp.

And as further proof that this poor woman is being used to further other people's agendas, today she is calling for Israel to get out of palestine. To use your own wording, exactly WTF does that have to do with her so-called original reason for being at Bush's ranch in Texas?

Can we have a non-hypocritical answer please?

Some people should feel very ashamed - for using this sick, grieving woman as their poster-person to further their own personal agendas. What if it was you that was being used in this way? How would your family feel? And how would you feel after you finally came to your senses and realized how all these so-called "supporters" had used you in your time of grief?


[edit on 8/14/2005 by centurion1211]

Ran across an interesting 3-page article this a.m. by Newsweek on this matter.
Some may find it a interesting and worthwhile read:
'I'm So Sorry'







seekerof

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Bush is used to promote the corporate agenda.

Mrs Shehan is being used/using to promote people's agenda(s).

In case you forgot:

Of the people
by the people
for the people

you will note nowhere in there does it refer to God, religion, corporations, greed or corruption.

Her support is grass roots.

His is purely from corporations and religious fanatics.
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Originally posted by slank
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Bush is used to promote the corporate agenda.

Mrs Shehan is being used/using to promote people's agenda(s).

In case you forgot:

Of the people
by the people
for the people

you will note nowhere in there does it refer to God, religion, corporations, greed or corruption.

Her support is grass roots.

His is purely from corporations and religious fanatics.
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Another tired, old tactic - dodge the tough questions ...

[edit on 8/14/2005 by centurion1211]