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Greece Signs Contracts for 183 Leopard 2s, 150 Leopard 1s

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posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 01:03 AM
No wonder the Leo-2 is the best tank out there


Greek government representatives in Berlin signed a contract for the purchase of 333 used tanks: 183 Leopard 2A4s and 150 Leopard 1A5 main battle tanks from Bundeswehr reserves. As DID noted on July 20, the overall value of this transaction was estimated at EUR 270 million (USD $324 Million).

This will raise the number of Leopard 1 tanks in Greek service to almost 350, and add the modern Leopard 2A4 tank to Greece's inventory.

Greece's rival Turkey, in contrast, has about 330 Leopard 1 tanks of its own in service...

Finally, in a related development, Defense expert Verena Wohlleben of Germany's ruling Social Democratic Party (SPD) has now said that surplus Leopard 2 tanks should be exportable to Turkey as well if a request is made. Germany has previously rebuffed a 1999 Turkish request to buy 1,000 Leopard 2 tanks for about EUR 7 billion (USD $8.6 billion), under pressure from members of the Green Party who raised concerns about the treatment of Turkey's Kurdish minority and cited German arms export laws that prevent sales to countries in which the arms "could increase tensions or conflicts."

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Hmmm....the smart Germans are selling it to both Greece and Turkey ..... pretty cheeky

posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 01:09 AM
Turkey :
>950 older M-60 tanks, 170 of which are being modernized and upgraded to M-60 Sabra status under a $670 million 2002 contract .
> 330 Leopard 1

Greece :

> 350 Leopard 1
> 183 Leopard 2

Both Greece and Turkey also have large numbers of 1950s era M-48 tanks, with Turkey holding significant numerical superiority in these outdated tanks.

I'd put my money on Greece...what about you ??

posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 01:13 AM
Turkish M-60 Sabra :

Leopard 1 A5 (with both Turkey & Greece) :

Greek Leopard 2 A4 :

posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 06:07 AM
Greece and Turkey...Old rivialry??
Greece sure seems to be packing up the defenses..or is it the offenses?
First the F-16s and now the tanks..

posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 07:06 AM
The Leopard 2 is the best tank in the world. That is a FACT. Greece knows that and ordered those tanks.

I think that we shouldn't sell weapons to other countries.

[edit on 6-8-2005 by AtheiX]

posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 07:43 AM
The hardware and the numbers don't make up the whole tale of the tape. What are their respective military structures, training programs, communications, doctrines? Who's attacking and on what terrain? Who's got better logistics? Who can call on better air support and indirect fire support? What are the anti-tank capabilities of their infantry? What are their engineers capable of?

There's a lot more to kicking the snot out of somebody than having better tanks. With the proper combination of terrain, tactics, training, and combined arms, a force spearheaded by the Leo2A6, M1A2, MerkavaIV, Chally2, or any other top of the line tank could find it self in a world of hurt at the hands of a better rounded, more disciplined force with inferior equipment.

Personally, I believe that for a technologically disadvantaged nation, a strong engineer corps, well disciplined and equipped infantry, and well trained snipers for artillery spotting could very well turn the tide. When you're outmatched, you need basically 3 things.
1. You must find a way, usually through unconventional tactics or innovations, to rebuff the enemy's assault without comitting your greatest strength. Thus you alter the tempo and prevent yourself from being "fixed".
2. You must find or make an opportunity to commit your greatest strength against an enemy weakness- "hit them where they aren't" if you will, to seize the initiative.
3. When you do find or make your opportunity to strike, it must be crushing. You must incapacitate the enemy so that your inferior forces can sustain the initiative and control of tempo.

If, for example, I were a Turkish general contemplating the possibility of a Greek attack, my strategy would be to prepare strong positions commanding key routes into Turkey's mountainous terrain, set fires to obscure the enemy's vision, and use spotters to direct the fire of my forces.

I'd keep my artillery as quiet as possible, lest enemy artillery return fire on them and destroy them, until my snipers had penetrated enemy lines and called in fire on the enemy artillery.

My tanks I would also hold in reserve to the greatest extent possible, hoping that after some attrition had been inflicted on enemy armor that it would be possible to launch a raid on the enemy's rear and crush his logistical capabilities.

posted on Aug, 9 2005 @ 01:28 PM
i think greece would win,we kicked thier a$$ on cyprus we can do it their highly trained and have great equipment and a large budget for its size (7.8billion) plus they are by far battle hardened fro m ops in the balkans and africa. and they have latests tech unlike third world turkey. plus we are aloud to have guns in greece unlike most kof turrkey.anyway lets keep it freindly.

posted on Aug, 9 2005 @ 02:18 PM
link Lockheed Martin wins $20M Greek military contract
Lockheed Martin Corp. has won a $20 million contract to provide the Hellenic Army of Greece with tank driving and firing simulators.

Lockheed Martin Training, an Orlando unit of Bethesda-based Lockheed Martin, will provide Greece with computer-generated forces capabilities, platoon networking, accessory tools and spares, technical manuals and technical support as well as hardware and software upgrades and new simulators under the two-year contract.

"Our customers' readiness to perform in real-world situations is our business," said Lockheed Martin Information Systems President Dan Crowley. "Our ongoing investment in training system technologies assures our customers that we will be an effective partner both today and tomorrow."

posted on Aug, 9 2005 @ 02:37 PM
This isn't about rivalry between Turkey and Greece. It just says that Greece bought used tanks from Germany. Germany wants to sell a lot more used tanks to Turkey, but they were denied this by their own law. There is not going to be a conflict between Greece and Turkey anytime soon.

posted on Aug, 9 2005 @ 03:19 PM
well greece and turky have been at each others throats ever since the cyprus incident in the 70s plus turkey aint got any money to even feed thier ppl let alone buy tanks

posted on Aug, 10 2005 @ 03:45 AM
Greece and Turkey flairing up again is a non starter.

Greece being a member of the EU and Turkey desperately wants to be a member. Also both are members of NATO and because of NATO's new strategic concept 2005 both countries have updated their armies to be more mobile.


EDIT: just to answer the above statement about Turkey not having enough money to feed the people is a bit dated. Turkey is experiencing strong economic growth and is expected to grow further on account of EU membership.

[edit on 10-8-2005 by spacemunkey]

posted on Aug, 11 2005 @ 01:15 AM
Yet more proof that the Leo1 is NATO's standard second string tank.

Can't see the EU members of NATO allowing another NATO member to attack another EU member of NATO.

But, if it did happen the last place I would want to be is inside an M48 Patton. And M60s ain't much better. I'd suggest that Cheiftan could still outdo even an M60 Sabra.

Nice photos, a couple of problems.

The Sabra has the same shot trap as the Merkava and the latest Leo 2s. Look at the Challenger 2 and the M1A1, that's the ballistic shape you want on your turret.

The Leo 2A4 has major vertical surface areas, that's been a no-no since 1940.

And I'm still waiting for multiple assessments that the Leo 2 is the best tank in the world. Most money is on the Challenger 2, and that's for fighting a conventional war in Central/Eastern Europe.

The Merkava has one of the highest crew-survivability designs in the world, with its engine up front to absorb the blast. And it is just about perfect at its intended role, in the confined areas of the urban Middle East, which is where the Israeli Army has been doing its fighting for the last twenty years.

The Australian Army has just decided to replace its 90 Leo 1s with M1s. Which I personally thought was a mistake, given their success in the Gulf War (a desert conflict, after all) the Challenger 1 would have been a far better choice. But then, I'm not a procurment officer. Or a politician. I hope we hang onto the Leo 1s as a reserve, cause we can't afford that many M1s!

posted on Aug, 11 2005 @ 02:28 AM
From were do they get that kind of money... They just bought new fighters..?

posted on Aug, 11 2005 @ 08:02 AM

This isn't about rivalry between Turkey and Greece. It just says that Greece bought used tanks from Germany. Germany wants to sell a lot more used tanks to Turkey, but they were denied this by their own law. There is not going to be a conflict between Greece and Turkey anytime soon.

Greece ,Turkey and Russia......

There's alot more happening !

mikem2939...Are you in Greece?


posted on Aug, 11 2005 @ 10:10 AM

Originally posted by AtheiX
The Leopard 2 is the best tank in the world. That is a FACT. Greece knows that and ordered those tanks.

I think that we shouldn't sell weapons to other countries.

[edit on 6-8-2005 by AtheiX]

LOL< where did you get that data?

The M1 Abrams has the best actual batle record of any tank in History. But your precious Leopard 2 is the best? Based on what? Stat sheet? Come talk to me after it actualy fights a bit, k?

They should have bought some M1's or Challengers 2's if you ask me, tanks that can be measured with real combat records....

posted on Aug, 11 2005 @ 07:18 PM
Well this is really politics but seeing as some obviously don't know and want to fantasize nonsense about Greece and Turkey in conflict here's the facts -

When largescale and deadly earthquakes hit Greece and Turkey recently each was first to the aid of the other.
Relations between Greece and Turkey have rarely been better because of this.

In summer 1999, a devastating earthquake struck Turkey and, later, a lesser but also deadly earthquake struck Greece. The mutual outpouring of sympathy on the part of the Greek and Turkish publics towards the victims helped provide greater support for government policies that opened new doors in the bilateral relationship.

By December 1999, Greece lifted its longstanding objections and joined its fellow European Union members in welcoming Turkey as an official candidate for full EU accession - a pivotal step which many influential Greeks also view as a significant gesture towards Turkey, and for which they still await a reciprocal diplomatic gesture from Ankara.

This year, we witnessed the historic visit of Greek Foreign Minister Papandreou to Turkey and the historic visit of Turkish Foreign Minister Cem to Greece. Shortly afterwards, major Greek and Turkish business interests announced a half-billion-dollar joint energy venture. This project may finally signal the beginning of enhanced trade relations that could blossom from under one billion dollars to as much as five billion dollars annually by 2005.

In summation, Turkey's relations with Greece today are at their best level in decades.

Greece and Turkey are not going to fight any time soon.

Turkey wants to join the EU (a long way off if it happens at all but there you go) and Greece has no interest in a new war of any kind. Both are NATO members........and this time there are no 'outside influences' attempting to manipulate the situation either.

Greek cypriot Cyprus is to join the EU and, following the disaster of partition, each 'side' is looking for ways for both to progress - with the Turkish north benefiting too - without either national 'label' getting in the way of that and reducing the benefits all the island would enjoy if this happens without impediment from that partition.

They might have bought some new kit and they may still have several 'issues' to resolve (Cyprus especially) but it is a far cry from them gearing up for a new war between them.

[edit on 11-8-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

posted on Aug, 12 2005 @ 01:34 PM
never new the turkish helped the greeks out back then,i guess relations are warming. o and by the way anyone know what infantry rifle greece uses?

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